Published authors and percentage income

[Anne Lyle]

Another reason I'm glad to be with an innovative publisher, not one of the megacorp dinosaurs - Angry Robot's ebooks are around half the price of a paperback, which seems entirely reasonable to me. Readers are coming to realise that those 99p SP ebooks are often rubbish, and they are starting to pass over them in favour of decent books at a realistic price point.

 

[AMB]

A writer writes. The more they write, hopefully the better they become at their craft. As with many of the arcane arts, there are different levels of writer; the Writer of Drivel aspires to work his way up through the ranks to become a Writer of Good Fiction, or even to one day join the near-mythical inner circle of the Writing Gods.

But to use the writer to only mean those who write decently you are denying its meaning. We'd then have to find a different one for all the other people who scribble stuff down, which is unfair, because they are writing too. Is that to say a distinction should not be made? No.

Going back to your own points, Peter. A chef is a professional cook, a doctor is a qualified medical professional. Engineers and psychotherapists are by definition trained in their profession. A writer is someone who writes. Someone can call themselves a writer when they write for pleasure with no thought of publishing, because it is the word that describes what they do. They like to write, and they do write, therefore they are a writer. Or do we all need to become professionals to become readers as well?

Is a person a good writer just because they write? No. Are they professional because they wrote one or two stories and got them out into the world? No.

I have absolutely no problem with the things you are saying, and agree that a distinction could and possibly should be made. I just think you are using the wrong word to make it.

 

[Scarfy]

Angry Robot's ebooks are around half the price of a paperback, which seems entirely reasonable to me.

Yep. I've actually got a few pencilled in for when I eventually get an eBook reader.

Readers are coming to realise that those 99p SP ebooks are often rubbish, and they are starting to pass over them in favour of decent books at a realistic price point.

I think that happened in the US about 18 months ago. They now avoid the $0.99 books before they're certain they'll be drivel.

 

[Gary Compton]

I think like a businessman.

Everything I have ever done in my career, which spans many failures and thankfully slightly more successes, I have tried to do whatever I do much better than the competition down the road.

Attention to detail is everything.

So when I'm ready, I'll have the best website, the best forum and the best ecommerce shop that I can create. They'll all help to push my book whether its traditionally published or I publish it.

I understand it has to be better than better. I've had 3 edits by John Jarrold and one more to come. I may also put it out to a proof reader to make sure that "the royal we," haven't missed anything.

I think self publishers will very quickly realise the importance of having a good product and will spend time getting it right.

I think Amazon should bin books that fall below a certain level of praise, in a similar way to Ebay who stops sellers with bad service records continuing to sell.

You will always get friends and family leaving feedback, I bet it happens on published books but overall the system seems fine to me. After all one mans passion is another's poison.

 

[Brian G Turner]

I've had 3 edits by John Jarrold and one more to come. I may also put it out to a proof reader to make sure that "the royal we," haven't missed anything.

I am *so* glad to see I'm not the only one who believes in professional editing, and only with you the best of luck with.

Thinking about the overall issue more deeply - I wonder if perhaps the most salient approach would be to try and get main books traditionally published, but leave open the option to self-publish back stories to such work?

 

[Gary Compton]

I am *so* glad to see I'm not the only one who believes in professional editing, and only with you the best of luck with.

I think if you want to be a publisher, which is effectively what self-publishing is. You have to act like one. I'd rather wait another year if it means I get it right.

I'm going to submit to agents when I'm ready and see what comes. At the same time I'm planning my marketing which will work for either scenarios

Onwards and sideways

 

[Mr Turtle]

A writer writes. The more they write, hopefully the better they become at their craft. As with many of the arcane arts, there are different levels of writer; the Writer of Drivel aspires to work his way up through the ranks to become a Writer of Good Fiction, or even to one day join the near-mythical inner circle of the Writing Gods.

But to use the writer to only mean those who write decently you are denying its meaning. We'd then have to find a different one for all the other people who scribble stuff down, which is unfair, because they are writing too. Is that to say a distinction should not be made? No.

Going back to your own points, Peter. A chef is a professional cook, a doctor is a qualified medical professional. Engineers and psychotherapists are by definition trained in their profession. A writer is someone who writes. Someone can call themselves a writer when they write for pleasure with no thought of publishing, because it is the word that describes what they do. They like to write, and they do write, therefore they are a writer. Or do we all need to become professionals to become readers as well?

Is a person a good writer just because they write? No. Are they professional because they wrote one or two stories and got them out into the world? No.

I have absolutely no problem with the things you are saying, and agree that a distinction could and possibly should be made. I just think you are using the wrong word to make it.

I love how this started as a discussion on how much writers earn and has now become a discussion as to what it means to be a writer.

Ultimately AMB and others are right - if your write, you are a writer. If you publish - whether that be self or trad. you are a published writer.

How do we determine quality? Perhaps not by the number of sales, as someone could put a book on kindle for .99 cents and get 100K downloads, but does it matter?

A story is written for the enjoyment of the writer and as all writers hope, the reader. Yes there are some *ahem* shall we say poor quality stories out there, but I guarantee those writers have got at least one fan......

Peace

Jx

 

[J-WO]

Not sure that counts as both, since I strongly suspect all your pages will be odd.

Hee, hee!

 

[Null_Zone]

A certain degree of snobbery around here about self publishing.

You can pay your mortgage from writing.
You can clothe and feed your family by writing.
You can pay your taxes from writing.

But you're not an author because someone on the internet says you're doing it wrong.

 

[Anne Lyle]

I think self publishers will very quickly realise the importance of having a good product and will spend time getting it right.

I think a lot of self-publishers will become disillusioned when they don't make a gazillion dollars, and not bother with writing any more books.

I think Amazon should bin books that fall below a certain level of praise, in a similar way to Ebay who stops sellers with bad service records continuing to sell.

Given that a lot of really bad books have only 5-star reviews from friends and family, I can't see this working. Besides, Amazon have a much bigger problem right now - there are spammers who create bogus ebooks full of random content in the hope that someone will be suckered into shelling out 99c.

The window of opportunity for self-publishing at minimal cost and with no gatekeeping may be drawing to a close...

 

[Scarfy]

I'm actually hoping that the sales of my BFTSS trilogy will ultimately count for something when I approach publishers and agents about a different series of books.

I know that that has happened for Ian Hocking (Deja Vu), a former client of John Jarrold.

 

[Peter Graham]

But to use the writer to only mean those who write decently you are denying its meaning.

No. All words carry certain connotations. Never underestimate the role of non-verbal (or non-verbalised) communication and the assumptions or expectations that this creates in the mind of the listener.

If someone says they are a doctor, the average person will assume that this means the other person is a qualified medical professional. Not an unreasonable assumption.

If Harebrain says he is a cyclist, the average person will assume that this means he cycles for pleasure - not that he rides professionally in the Tour and has blood the consistency of raspberry jam due to pumping pints of nandrolene into his system.

If I say I am a writer, the average person will assume that I am a professional and published author.

Does it matter what our putative average person thinks? Possibly not. But it is disingenuous of us to pretend that when we say "I am a writer" we are not hoping to generate a certain image of ourselves in the mind of the listener - and probably in our own minds too. When I was younger, a number of folk of my acquaintance called themselves "musicians"" or "poets". However, they were actually unemployed dole bludgers with a guitar or a pencil. But "musician" sounds rather better, doesn't it.....

Someone can call themselves a writer when they write for pleasure with no thought of publishing, because it is the word that describes what they do.

It defines one thing that they do - and probably not the main thing. As HB also implied in his excellent post, he doesn't tend to refer to himself as a cyclist, as it doesn't really define what he does. When asked what he does, he would by his own admission say "I'm a data monkey" or, when he feels brave enough, he might say "I'm aspiring to be a writer but I currently work as a data monkey".

HB is being honest and all credit for that. What I suspect he wouldn't say is "I am a writer", because to say that would be misleading at best.

They like to write, and they do write, therefore they are a writer.

I like to eat out and judge what I have eaten, I do eat out and judge what I have eaten, therefore I am a restaurant critic.

I like to keep hens, I do keep hens, therefore I am a farmer.

You get the point. Words are powerful and all writers - aspiring, successful or whatever - should aspire to clear communication.

"I am a writer" carries a clear implied as well as explicit meaning and should therefore only be used as an absolute, unqualified statement when it is true.

Regards,

Peter

 

[Peter Graham]

A certain degree of snobbery around here about self publishing.

A certain degree of discernment, perhaps, but no snobbery.

You can pay your mortgage from writing.
You can clothe and feed your family by writing.
You can pay your taxes from writing.

But you're not an author because someone on the internet says you're doing it wrong.

Who argued this?

Regards,

Peter

 

[Mr Turtle]

I'm actually hoping that the sales of my BFTSS trilogy will ultimately count for something when I approach publishers and agents about a different series of books.

I know that that has happened for Ian Hocking (Deja Vu), a former client of John Jarrold.

I can't see how they can ignore it Scarfy.

If you have a certain number of sales, obviously people are enjoying your books for one reason or another - I'm absolutely positive that they will take that into account, if anything just to pay that little bit more attention to your work - sets your apart from the 1000's of other MS's they get sent!

Peace

Jx

 

[Gary Compton]

I think a lot of self-publishers will become disillusioned when they don't make a gazillion dollars, and not bother with writing any more books.

Maybe some but the more driven, just like in publishing will push and push. And I wouldnt call 30K a gazillion dollars considering the amount of work goes into writing 3 books. You get more at Asda, putting the tatties out.

Given that a lot of really bad books have only 5-star reviews from friends and family, I can't see this working. Besides, Amazon have a much bigger problem right now - there are spammers who create bogus ebooks full of random content in the hope that someone will be suckered into shelling out 99c.

The window of opportunity for self-publishing at minimal cost and with no gatekeeping may be drawing to a close...

How do you know that, - it's the bandwagon generalization. I'm sure their are loads of published authors who've got their granny to leave feedback. They've probably written the comment themselves.You have to take it seriously I would say when the feedback gets over 10.

Everybody on the internet has the spamming problem. It gets dealt with by site owners and webmastes and the spammers come back with something new so their swatted with new innovations and the cycle starts again.

Amazon will deal with everybody and anything I would say.

On the window of self-publishing; I think its new and it also has problems but I'm sure those problems will be ironed out.

In a business enviroment, sales are everything. My mate Scarfy is knocking out 1200+ a month. How many published authors can say that.

 

[HareBrain]

Interesting post, Peter. When I did my MA a while back, we were encouraged to "own the label" (yeuch) of "writer" but the context in which we might do so was never explored. Personally, even if I somehow became a vastly successful novelist, I doubt I'd comfortably make the bald claim "I am a writer", free of qualifications and caveats, because to me that would imply a literary heavyweight, someone who could expound at great length what his numerous and varied works had to "say", and who could be relied upon to give witty and profound interviews on radio 4.

I think it's impossible to deny that the word comes heavily freighted with baggage, and you're right, people should be aware of that when they use it. The trouble is that the alternatives are pretty clumsy.

 

[Null_Zone]

A certain degree of discernment, perhaps, but no snobbery.

Who argued this?

Regards,

Peter

You.

Does it matter? Arguably not. One has written a book and one might as well stick it up there. At least you have a chance of a few sales.

But these folk are not really writers. They are folk who have written something - which no more makes them a proper writer than me hacking Dave Ten Pints' leg off with the chopsaw makes me a surgeon.

 

[Boneman]

Snobbery is saying you're better than someone for no good reason than an imagined superiority. Peter's argument was actually a very valid point. Posting a badly written, unedited, unimaginative piece of prose in the hope that someone else will buy it does not make you a writer - it makes you an unrealistic writer.

 

[Null_Zone]

Snobbery is saying you're better than someone for no good reason than an imagined superiority. Peter's argument was actually a very valid point.

Sorry, but no.

Dismissing a body of work just because it doesn't follow your preset beliefs of how something should be done is snobbery.

Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of terrible self published books out there, but it doesn't stop someone eanring money from being a writer just on internet guys say so.

But really this is just dissolving into the "It's not Art because I don't like it argument."

 

[Dozmonic]

Interesting and vibrant thread.

To be commercially successful you either need to have a single novel / series that is a runaway success, or a sufficient amount of material that sells averagely to make a living from it.

Runaway success books don't happen often and there's no predicting it. It's rarely overnight, often not even in the lifetime of the author.

The other route requires industry and discipline to produce a volume of work of sufficient quality in an area that's selling well. Diary Of... books for kids are one such area right now, though that's likely to do better via traditional routes because most kids don't have a kindle. Paranormal romance is still going strong and doesn't look to be dying any time soon. But to produce a book in these areas you have to look at what's there, breakdown what sells and what doesn't, hazard a guess at what space there is for something else and then put in the long hours to get it written up in a short time.

Someone like James Patterson never writes to what most people consider a high standard. But he writes a lot and he gets his ideas down, gets a talented writer to first draft, then tidies up the process. With his name on it, people know what to expect. They know they'll face 120+ scenes that're 2-3 pages long. That there's little complexity, just fast paced action. It has become a brand rather than a work of art, but one that makes a fortune.

JK Rowling could have carried on the HP series and milked it far more. The thing about that series was that people waited years for the books, because she did it solo, whereas Patterson does it collaberatively. Would the quality of the HP books mattered it she wrote the next 5 in 6 months each, then went to work on a new project?

Quality and quantity have to be managed. 10,000 hours into a novel rather than 1,000, that only increases its sales by 10%, isn't a valuable time investment from a business perspective. Setting up a website, selling merchandising, creating a brand from a series - that could be a valuable investment of time but is also moving away from writing.

We've each got our lines to draw in the sand and then redraw as our perspective changes. Money is there to be made, writing can be done in different ways, revenue streams can be diversified and all of this is possible via self-published as well as traditional routes.

None of it is easy