How do you draw the line with compassion for characters?

[Warren_Paul]

I don't want to trivilise rape, and I fear that I might in consideration.

Yeah that's an important point. While writing my own novel, which at first included a rape scene (which I later removed), I was looking information about cliche's and stories that have been done too much, or people are just sick of reading, and one of those points was a character existing as female just so she could be raped later in the story.

If your book is going to include a rape scene then it should be important and required for the story to progress.

I removed the rape scene in my book because I felt it was not necessary for the plot development. It was just one thing that happened to a character in a long list of bad things

 

[David Evil Overlord]

I have found so far my characters never do what I want them to. I found that out the moment my protagonist ran right off the pages of my originally planned story line and kept going.

I know that feeling. I created a rebellious character for no other reason than to annoy her by-the-book sister. That rebellious character...well, she rebelled, and took over a whole book.

 

[Warren_Paul]

I know that feeling. I created a rebellious character for no other reason than to annoy her by-the-book sister. That rebellious character...well, she rebelled, and took over a whole book.

Yeah I gave up trying to follow an outline about two chapters into my book. I knew the starting and ending, yet for the in between I was forced to just let my characters do what they wanted to do.

Several characters got more attention than originally planned, yet on the other side, several ended up being left behind, just too much story to fit into one book. But that's what sequels and trilogies, sagas, whatever, are for!

 

[David Evil Overlord]

My characters don't like me writing outlines. One of my super hero characters just figured out how to injure herself by leaping a tall building in a single bound (almost!) in a way that works so much better than my stupid idea.

(Although a character was hurt in the making of this story, it was absolutely necessary for the story itself...and she may be covered by worker's compensation insurance.)

 

[Anne Lyle]

I don't have any problem being mean to my characters if the plot demands it - my poor hero seems to get betrayed and tortured in every book, poor chap!

And just to hammer previous points home, enjoyment of sex makes prostitution the last job in the world anyone would want to do. A woman who enjoys sex will look for a kind and loving husband, or perhaps a sugar-daddy, but certainly not a brothel. The "willing whore" is a male fantasy and will earn your novel a book-wall collision event from female readers.

 

[Kaladan]

There's no line to be drawn as far as I'm concerned. I didn't put a great deal of planning into the stuff I wrote in the past... an untimely demise here and there would hopefully invoke an emotional reaction in the reader similar to my own since I was usually as surprised about it as the reader would be.

This would be a good question for Steven Erikson, who is brutally merciless as far as slaughtering lovable characters goes.

 

[Boneman]

In a rewrite I killed off the mother of my main character, partially to stir the main character into revenge mode, and partially because someone in the house had to die... when one of my beta readers read the new death scene the comment was "Thank God for that - she was sickeningly good, and I couldn't stand her." !!

Funnily enough, I've just taken a 'rape' scene out of my book entirely - the woman was a 'willing' participant, but the man had an uncontrollable desire, and wouldn't normally have done this. I loved the after-scene for his regret, tears and her desire to help him, but on the 20th re-read, (before I'd read this thread, but after I'd read the Strange Horizons bit) I just didn't like it - I think I was using it as a dramatic way of showing an innocent seeing the dark side for the first time, and although it added to the story, I felt it was coming close to glorifying the worst kind of violence. So it went, and I knew it was the right decision as soon as I made it.

So Ant, you've got a tough task ahead, but good luck with it!

 

[anthorn]

I don't have any problem being mean to my characters if the plot demands it - my poor hero seems to get betrayed and tortured in every book, poor chap!

And just to hammer previous points home, enjoyment of sex makes prostitution the last job in the world anyone would want to do. A woman who enjoys sex will look for a kind and loving husband, or perhaps a sugar-daddy, but certainly not a brothel. The "willing whore" is a male fantasy and will earn your novel a book-wall collision event from female readers.

Even if she decided she made a mistake with that life? And regrets estrangment from her sister.

On another knife edge. I think the whole raped sister who ended up being sold as a slave and now wants to kill her sister who she thinks abandoned her. So probably not a good Idea to go the whole raped now mad route.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

Funnily enough, I've just taken a 'rape' scene out of my book entirely - the woman was a 'willing' participant, but the man had an uncontrollable desire, and wouldn't normally have done this. I loved the after-scene for his regret, tears and her desire to help him, but on the 20th re-read, (before I'd read this thread, but after I'd read the Strange Horizons bit) I just didn't like it - I think I was using it as a dramatic way of showing an innocent seeing the dark side for the first time, and although it added to the story, I felt it was coming close to glorifying the worst kind of violence. So it went, and I knew it was the right decision as soon as I made it.

I was the opposite; I tried to find every way not to put rape in mine, but the line kept coming back that in the situation it happens, it would have been unbelievable for it not to happen.

Or as one reviewer said; Is this the bit you were so worried about? I'm surprised it didn't happen sooner.

Um, just to add to it and complicate it, mine was a male rape, and was part of a wider ordeal, so that changed its implications slightly; it's fair to say the character is left irreparably changed by the event. And that's my argument in this thread; it's ok to have these things, they should be talked about, explored, but it's not ok to have them there for a plot line. We should be asking ourselves, just as you have and i have, if we really have to have that in our book. And if the answer is yes, then we have an onus to treat it as the subject matter it is; serious, life changing and absolutely not to be trivialised.

I'm glad you raised the question, anthorn, because it is so easy just to say I have an idea and this would really raise the tension in my WIP, but it's useful to explore the impact on the reader - not just on this subject matter, but in other taboos as well.

 

[AnyaKimlin]

I think done correctly it is important to talk about them. For my NaNoWriMo one of my policemen was raped. I didn't include a rape scene, wimped out and had his partner storm out after an arguement. (Plus I didn't know who had done it at that point). The story was about how the couple dealt with it.

When I mentioned it on a thread I got three beautiful, but heartbreaking PMs from two men who had been raped and one from a wife of a man who had been. They offered help to get it right.

 

[Anne Lyle]

Even if she decided she made a mistake with that life? And regrets estrangment from her sister.

I think that it's one of those scenarios that could happen in real life, but if you put it in a book, you would lose a lot of credibility and sympathy with readers.

It's like using any stereotype. Yes, there are people like that, just by random chance, but the fact that you chose to put this incident into an entirely fictional story that's under your control says things about you as a writer. Things that may not be true, and which you may not want your readers to think.

To me it would say, "this guy has no clue about what prostitution is really like, because 99.999% of women would do anything to avoid it".

Writing the opposite sex well is hard enough, without putting your foot in your mouth from the get-go

 

[Toby Frost]

On a broader note, I think you can get away with doing hideous things to characters if they're minor and, especially, if you don't have to realistically depict their point of view (or, as posts above suggest, their motives).

The problem really arises when a writer takes a traumatic real-world event - character is raped, tortured, witnesses death of spouse etc - and uses it as an excuse to have them go crazy and kill everything and generally be teh awesome. Often this will look forced or like an excuse for mayhem, and the closer to being in that character's mind you get, the harder it gets to pull off and it all seems a bit Mary-Sue.

Realistically, it doesn't take much to seriously traumatise someone, and most people suffering such events will just want to get back to normal as quickly as possible and be as safe and happy as they can. In a society, say, where vendetta is not just accepted but approved of, or where loss of face for not responding would be unbearable, it may be otherwise. For some people, of course, honour excuses any level of depravity.

 

[Mouse]

My attempt at the 2010 NaNoWriMo was called The Rape of Anna Hannigan. And it was told from the POV of the rapist - who was just a normal guy, not some monster. Also, I didn't actually write the rape. I wrote the lead up and the fallout.

As for feeling something for your characters... you have to, don't you? If you don't, then why should your readers? I think it helps when you kill them off, then you can write the emotional responses of those left behind better.

 

[Brian G Turner]

On the subject of violence to minor characters - one of my pet peeves is a writer giving a minor wound to a main character, all the time pretending it might be something more serious.

It's become such a cliche to me: shoulder wound/leg wound/arm wound etc = invincible character, fin.

There are far more inventive ways to incapacitate a character. Look at professional sports for example.

 

[Anne Lyle]

I don't quite understand the "all the time pretending it might be something more serious" part. In the era I'm writing about, even a minor wound could kill eventually, so it's something the characters take seriously. Also, a character who is regularly in combat is going to get hit by weapons now and again. Having him never get hurt really would equal invincible.

Finally, there's such a thing as escapism. I don't think readers would be too impressed if instead of being stabbed, he slipped on some mud and wrenched his knee, do you?

 

[AMB]

Finally, there's such a thing as escapism. I don't think readers would be too impressed if instead of being stabbed, he slipped on some mud and wrenched his knee, do you?

Do it! It would be hilarious.

 

[Brian G Turner]

I don't quite understand the "all the time pretending it might be something more serious" part. In the era I'm writing about, even a minor wound could kill eventually, so it's something the characters take seriously.

Same with fantasy in general, but I can't recall ever reading a protagonist killed by a minor infection!

But that reminds of the point that there are really lame ways to kill a main character.

 

[anthorn]

Someone should do a Fantasy tribute to Elvis.

The Chosen One vows to go to the castle and save the world-then dies on the crapper.

 

[David Evil Overlord]

For a protagonist killed by minor infection, may I suggest the Martians in The War of the Worlds?

Seriously, there are some characters who should die from a minor infection :cough:Jar Jar Binks:cough:

 

[David Evil Overlord]

Someone should do a Fantasy tribute to Elvis.

The Chosen One vows to go to the castle and save the world-then dies on the crapper.

The wise old wizard always said crapping in the woods was so much safer and cleaner than bringing it all inside the house with one of them new-fangled pottery throne thingies.