The Passing of the Years

[Abernovo]

For my three hundredth post and the first ever thread of my own initiation, I have a request for help.

I need a different word for 'year', without relying on the word 'cycles' which I heard used on Star Trek and hated.

The reason? I have a colony in my WIP that's been on a generation ship for three hundred Earth years before finding a planet and spending a couple of centuries in orbit whilst the terraforming process was completed. To adjust to the seasons and the conditions of their new home the colony had to adjust to the orbital and rotational periods of the new planet to the point where they no longer think in Earth terms of time - due to the distance and a breakdown in communications, they have no contact with the home planet anyway. In fact, they've ceased to think of Earth as their home - only as a distant planet their ancestors once came from.

They've kept hours and minutes, but have changed their understanding of 'days' to twenty-six hours and change and 'years' to five hundred and sixty-odd of these days - resulting in situations where, for example, the age of majority is at ten years old, roughly equivalent to 18 Earth years.

I need to show the difference between their time and Earth time because they are about to make contact with what is essentially an alien culture - another ship from Earth with a much faster propulsion, so from a later and very different society to the original ship. Right now, I'm hoping that I haven't bitten off more than I can chew with this, especially as I have to explain the differences between the two cultures without too much info-dump. But that's another thread entirely.

Basically, I'm trying to explain the differences without info-dumping and, preferably, without always referring to 'Earth-years' etc., which I think will slow it down too much. Any thoughts and suggestions would be appreciated.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

Yay! congrats on the 300th!

Firstly, do you need to say it once or on a recurring basis? If the first, it might be a case of a bite the bullet and go info dump. My new info dump rule is if I can squeeze a story into 75 words... (it doesn't always work but it gives me a focus.)

If it's going to be recurring can you put it into chapter headings? Earth 3000 Ad/ planet time; put in the equivalency?

 

[Glitch]

Congrats on 300 posts. I aspire to reach it one day!

Rotations - 10 rotations = 18 years?

Keep it a years - 10 years = 18 earths.

Equinox, Solstice, Celestial - Depends on the planet and how seasons are viewed. The planet doesn't have to tilt like earth; maybe there are no seasons, so it doesn't matter how long the planet takes to orbit the star.

You could name it after the ship, captain, guy who discovered the planet and or new time system.

 

[David Evil Overlord]

Congratulations on the big 300.

Everything depends on what you want the story to achieve. I believe there were riots when the Pope changed the calendar several centuries ago. The peasants were revolting because they thought the Pope had just stolen several months from their lives!

Who has to adapt to the situation? Do the colonists find themselves forced to adopt a calendar their ancestors abandonded (for good reason, since it didn't fit this new world). Will the Earth explorers be forced to change (unlikely, see every Earth example of colonialism and higher-tech meets lower-tech society).

But forcing this world to change means an Earthly winter when the planet says Spring. Or your morning shift at the factory now begins in the middle of the night...damn those clocks-set-to-Earth-time 24 hour days!)

P.S. All of my examples are just ideas for conflict. You obviously have your own ideas. I'm just throwing these out there. Use any you think will be useful, if any.

 

[Abernovo]

Ah, sorry, springs. Perhaps I should have made myself clearer. It's not dates (3000/year 1) that I'm trying to convey. It's the misunderstandings between a ten-year-old being the same on planet X as an eighteen-year-old from Earth. Also that they have been in orbit for two centuries, but that makes it three hundred and eighteen Earth years. My problem, but also part of the idea behind the story, is that the environment they live in has altered their lives and that they now have to earn to communicate with a very foreign society.

I've info-dumped in my first draft. Too much. This is me now trying to rewrite things so that it's vaguely readable.

 

[Abernovo]

Apologies for the double post.

'Earths'. Thanks, Glitch. Simple and easy to understand, without being slow. Definitely one to consider.

David, the reason the has abandoned Earth timings is exactly as you describe - seasons out of synch, days not matching. However, I'm not looking for one colony to impose upon another, although culture clash (an overused phrase) is a major part of the story. The biggest tensions, though, are internal ones in the established colony as they adjust to the new arrivals. Basically political manoeuvring and agitation as certain characters try to retain their power and restrict that of others. I might use your riots idea, though. Thank you.

Springs, apologies if the last post sounded a little snippy - not intentional. I'm not against a small info-dump, but as the subject recurs a few times in different contexts, I'm trying to limit it and explain by showing, if I can, in separate situations. Aargh!

 

[David Evil Overlord]

Glad to help, Abernovo.

Info-dumps could be done thus: while the new ship is in orbit, some form of astronomical measurements would reveal to the crew the longer days/years on this world. First interactions would be both sides using their own measurement system, and refusing to recognise the other way of doing things. Conflict ensues as both sides realise just what is going wrong here.

Riots over access to movies restricted to 18+ ?

Just my thoughts.

 

[Glitch]

The new arrivals will have to learn, or be told, about the new calendar system. This is a great way to divulge the information you need.

Character A - "It's the middle of the day, but I'm so tired!".
Character B - "That's because you've been awake for, is it rivets or divots, I forget".

Bad example I know, but hopefully enough to make the point ?

 

[Abernovo]

Hmm, I suppose I should give an example. It's how I introduce the different orbital periods and day lengths. I'm not at all happy with it, but I'm in one of those head spaces where my frustration with my work is affecting my judgement on how to solve the problem. Sorry to harp on with this.


Only the very minimum number of people worked during that first week. Time was still measured in weeks, but the years had changed. It took five hundred and sixty-seven days for Hope to circle its twin suns; their year consisted of thirteen months of twenty-eight days and seven of twenty-nine. Days of twenty-six hours, with every tenth day having a twenty-seventh hour to mop up the spare minutes.

The fifth day of the eighteenth month in the year 198s.a. Since Arrival. One hundred and ninety-eight, almost one hundred and ninety-nine years before, the two colony ships had entered orbit. Three hundred and thirty-four Earth years, but they were now irrelevant on Hope. There was no relationship with Earth any more. At sixteen years old, Cal would have found it difficult to convert his age into Earth time frames. Staying with those measurements would have put the colony out of synch with their new home.

"Twenty-six," Eva told him, still in teacher mode.


Please, rip it apart, because I'm beginning to think the whole thing's a pile of donkey droppings that I should file away and forget.

 

[Hex]

I like the idea. The two paragraphs above were very information dense (as you know) and when I got to 'thirteen months of twenty-eight...' my brain started wandering away and trying to do other things. I forced it back, but the numbers started going 'blahblahblah' in my head. Unquestionably this is my problem, not yours, and if I knew it was necessary to understand the world, and was reading in context, I would make more of an effort to process it all.

Introducing the differences: how about having a meeting between the two cultures -- on the 10th Year Ceremony of a couple of characters? Old trick, perhaps, but for a reason.

Or, you know, do a 1984 and have your own equivalent of 'It was a bright cold day in April and the clocks were striking thirteen...'

 

[The Judge]

I'm sorry, Aber, but my eyes glazed over long before the end of the first para, but I am, shall we say, mathematically-challenged.

How much of that do you really need on the page? We can grasp the concept of "long" years very easily, so can't you simply have some dialogue along the lines of:

"He's a grown man, but he says he's only 12."
"Long years here, don't forget. Every one of theirs is about 18 months of ours. So at 12, he's really [insert correct figure here...]."

 

[Abernovo]

You're completely right, Your Honour, in questioning how much of it I need on the page. I need the concept, completely, but how much I need to tell is something I'm questioning. I tried almost those exact lines at one point, but I didn't like them at the time. That may be me, though. I think I might have to try it again. I think part of the problem is that I know what I'm trying to say, I'm just dissatisfied with how it's coming out - I need prose elocution, or something!

Hex, I followed your advice and just started a paragraph with:

The clock read 23:07. Slightly less than an hour until midnight.

Still not perfected, but I like it better than before. So, thanks. Oddly, I never thought of 1984, despite having read it more than once.

 

[Brian G Turner]

Time is relative - days and years based on rotational and orbital cycles will differ according to any colonisation, so the expectation would be that any colonisation program would already have a universal standard developed for colonists to reference.

Additionally, time varies according to the mass of an object - which means time will pass differently on a large mass planet and small mass planet according to a third party observer, regardless.

Again, something any serious colonial program would have already considered.

 

[James Coote]

Firstly, does time of day or year make a difference? Unless the planet has been terraformed, the colonists are unlikely to actually be exposed to sunlight. It is almost certainly the wrong mix of radiation, even on a relatively Earth-like planet, so there would have to be some other reason to make time fit the patterns of day and night

The other factor is how well the human body can adjust to the changes. I don't know whether we're capable as a species of making the shift to a 26 hour day, or if we'd all be walking around permanently tired and wearing ourselves down (or getting an extra 2 hours in bed every day ). Maybe 1 extra hour of sleep and 1 extra hour of awake a day wouldn't be stretching it too far

You could use a neutral frame of reference for time. Assuming you're just in the milky way, one revolution of the galaxy == 1 year. According to wikipedia:

Sun's galactic rotation period 250 million years (negative rotation)
Spiral pattern rotation period 50 million years
Bar pattern rotation period 15 to 18 million years

Even at 15mil years, that is one very long year....

567 is exactly 81 weeks of 7 days each, so not sure why you would change the length of a week. You could have 20 months of 28 days (4 weeks) and then an odd week left at the end, which is perfect for a holiday/festival/celebration week or something. You could give it a special name and a history etc

So you could have Cal convert his age of 16 years to 16*81*7 days = 9072 days. Divide by 365 = 24.85 Earth years. Then the teacher says 'but, the days on Hope are 26 hours, with an extra hour every 10 days (i.e. a day lasts 26.1 hours), so it should be 9072 * 26.1 days = 236779.2 hours. Since there are actually 365.25 days on Earth and 24 hours in a day, that makes 365.25*24 = 8766 hours in an Eath year.

So in Earth years, Cal is 236779.2/8766 years old

Cal is 27.01 years old

Edit: Also Earth is relatively unusual. Most planets and moons (like our own moon) are in tidal lock. I.e. 1 year = 1 day and 1 side is permanently facing whatever it is orbiting.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

Only the very minimum number of people worked during that first
week. Time was still measured in weeks, but the years had changed. It took five hundred and sixty-seven days for Hope to circle its twin suns; their year consisted of thirteen months of twenty-eight days and seven of twenty-nine. Days of twenty-six hours, with every tenth day having a twenty-seventh hour to mop up the spare minutes.

I didn't understand why the work comment was there. I'm just as mathematically challenged as TJ, I think, so I did get lost. What I'm wondering is do you need it in the action, or could you have it in like a short prologue or statement *a note on time*. then for those who don't want to get bogged down they can skip it or understand the general concept and move on?

The fifth day of the eighteenth month in the year 198s.a. Since Arrival. One hundred and ninety-eight, almost one hundred and ninety-nine years before, the two colony ships had entered orbit. Three hundred and thirty-four Earth years, but they were now irrelevant on Hope. There was no relationship with Earth any more. At sixteen years old, Cal would have found it difficult to convert his age into Earth time frames. Staying with those measurements would have put the colony out of synch with their new home.

to my mind, this is where I start to prick up my ears and get interested. It's nothing to do with the writing IMO, which is very smooth, but the type and amout of info.



And for what it's worth I think it sounds like an interesting premise and could go a long way.

 

[Jake Reynolds]

If it was me, I'd just call them years. To be honest, readers don't generally care about such things, and it's really not going to have much of an impact. I doubt anybody will be tracking the number of days vs seasonal changes, put the book down and say 'That's it, it should sooo be summer by now. This is terrible and I'm never reading again. Put the Kardashians on.'

Possibly put it in as the two characters compare ages or something, but apart from that it just seems like an unnecessary demonstration of world-building. I might suggest a reduction in the difference between the two "years", as this will be far more confusing. It is unavoidable that when people hear '16 years old' they form an immediate opinion as to the character. If that character is, in fact, a different age in terms of maturity, it will be impossible to explain that first impression away.

I think the time difference is creating way too many problems simply to have a 'quirk' of world building. I'd question whether it was even necessary at all, if it is largely a cosmetic thing. I'd rather my readers focussed on the characters and the story rather than arbitrary time frames. For that reason, my fantasy world has twelve month years, months are thirty days, and weeks are seven days. Keep it simple, because beyond the original conceit, readers should be focussing on what matters.

 

[Abernovo]

Thanks guys and gals for your input. Very helpful. It's certainly helped to put me into re-write mode.

James Coote, thanks for the heads up on a typo. It should be 27. Actually the maths is not a huge problem for me - not letting my inner nerd run loose is. One question though: where do you get the information that most planets are tidally locked? I wasn't aware that much was yet known about exoplanets, other than growing numbers and locations.

Springs, I'm taking your advice on cutting it down to create the interest hook. Much appreciated. I'm going to try and let things seep through if they're absolutely necessary. The rest can flow by unmentioned.

Jake, the differences in orbital periods are intended to show how environments can change a society rather than a cosmetic quirk, but I'm taking on board your suggestion to limit the difference. A bit of subtlety rather than hitting a reader over the head with it.

Right - time to sharpen this hatchet.

 

[Vertigo]

The simplest and most common way I have come across is to use years to represent your local years and standard or Sol or Earth years for... well standard years. Standard is my preference but you might need Earth or Sol if you start dealing with alien races with their own standard year.

 

[Ursa major]

The principal** multi-star-system political entity in my WiPs has the capital city on a planet orbiting a star whose name begins with a T.

So they have local time and T-Time. Simples.


(Note: My WiPs are not set in the same universe as Toby Frost's Space Captain Smith novels.)



** - In terms of where the PoV characters come (or are supposed to come) from.

 

[Abernovo]

In my world, it's always time for a cuppa cha, Ursa.