what bodily function are we obsessed with

[Esfires]

Oh yes, I completely agree. GRRM can write, but the sex in ADWD came over gratuitous and gave me a bit of a creepy old man feeling.

It doesn't help that Martin actually does look like the kind of guy that would be asking mall-crawling teens if they wanted to come take a look at the anime figures in the back of his van.

 

[David Evil Overlord]

One scene I wrote many years ago had a POV character waking up in bed after a too-drunk-to-remember-the-night-before kind of party. He discovers he's naked, and in bed with a pretty, naked girl. And he doesn't remember how it happened.

She gives him hell because he doesn't remember her. She remembers him!

Then he finds out she's a telepath. She really was too drunk to remember him, either -- she just read his mind and pretended she knew all about him and learned it all the night before...

Sex doesn't have to be about the mechanics (which all happened "off-camera"), but can and should be about the fun complications you can throw at your characters just to see how they deal with it.

 

[Anne Lyle]

I sometimes get worried people will see my characters as unrealistic because they never seem to think about sex or sexual relationships.

If you make them rich and detailed characters, or if their lives are complicated in other ways, readers probably won't notice. There's only a couple of brief mentions of sexual interest in "Among Thieves" by Douglas Hulick, but that's because the 1st person PoV character, Drothe, is too deeply engrossed in his investigation (and staying alive!) to focus much on sex.

When it comes to reading, I don't mind any level of explicitness as long as it's a) relevant and b) not an excuse for the author to exercise his (sometimes unconscious) misogyny. Maybe that's one of many reasons female readers like gay male couples in fiction - "no women were harmed in the making..."

In my own writing, I treat sex like any other story element - how much does it contribute to the story and/or character development? A casual tumble with a whore rarely requires any detail beyond the bedroom door, whereas the first intimacies between major characters are going impact their relationship in big ways, so glossing over them will short-change the reader.

 

[David Evil Overlord]

Breathing. My characters do a lot of breathing. They're obsessed with it.

Well, apart from the zombies, of course.

 

[Bowler1]

Sex is one of the big issues and it should come up for discussion. I'm similiar to DOE on this, all the naughty action is off camera if it occurs at all.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

I don't quite agree. I certainly don't espouse the view of doing it all the time, or doing it for shock, but I think there is a place for it. I have one left in my WIP, and it's one of the most central scenes in the whole thing, sets up the central relationship for the trilogy and is a symbolism for the sacrifice/loss theme of the book. It's, I hope, not especially toe curling, and it avoids most euphenisms, but without it, I think something would be lost.

Same as any other function, if it's essential - if your character has a morbid fear and they need to rush to the loo every time they're stressed for instance, that's fine, provided it's dealt with as part of the story, character development, and not because the writer likes toilet humour. (unless, of course, their jokes are funny and then, who knows?)

 

[AnyaKimlin]

I tend to begin the scene and then strageically place a bowl of fruit or shower curtain in front of the scene. (mine is YA, but I have a pair of just married seventeen year olds).

In my detectives it is more obvious.

My urban fantasy I have a dilemma with as they are over 60, taking it one step at a time.

 

[Bowler1]

I'm SciFi - can talk about big rocket engines, thrust, take off and even send the reader to the stars.

But I'm not so sure about sex!

 

[Mouse]

When it comes to reading, I don't mind any level of explicitness as long as it's a) relevant and b) not an excuse for the author to exercise his (sometimes unconscious) misogyny. Maybe that's one of many reasons female readers like gay male couples in fiction - "no women were harmed in the making..."

Agree with that entirely.

I find what you say about gay male couples interesting too. I love really epic male/male love stories. I find the dynamic interesting and they're usually so romantical and lovely. (Not always - I do read James Lear novels too!) But hadn't thought of the 'no women were harmed' aspect, and it really rings true for me.

 

[Anne Lyle]

Agree with that entirely.

I find what you say about gay male couples interesting too. I love really epic male/male love stories. I find the dynamic interesting and they're usually so romantical and lovely.

You should read my friend Alex Beecroft - she writes wonderful m/m romance, particularly her Age of Sail books (False Colors; Captain's Surrender). Lots of wonderful historical detail and thrilling action - very Patrick O'Brien - but with dollops of steamy forbidden romance thrown in

 

[Mouse]

Ooh, ta muchly. I'll check it out!

 

[Jo Zebedee]

The Catch Trap by Zimmer Bradley, interesting portrayal of a gay inter-dependent relationship, with a morally dubious older man. and fantastic depiction of the flying trapeze and the skills needed.

 

[Mouse]

and fantastic depiction of the flying trapeze and the skills needed.

The mind boggles! I'll look it up, ta.

 

[AnyaKimlin]

Marguerite Labbe and CM Torrens are my favourite m/m writers. Marguerite's stuff just drips hot with every word and CM Torrens work about Death was just genius (she does creepy description to compete with any good horror writer).

To be honest I find watching a gay couple together very sexy. Not sure why no desire to have sex with two gay men etc

 

[Mouse]

To be honest I find watching a gay couple together very sexy. Not sure why no desire to have sex with two gay men etc

Because we don't find women sexy, maybe? I find seeing two men together more attractive than a man and a woman.

Heh. We're getting into how the mind works again!

 

[AnyaKimlin]

Because we don't find women sexy, maybe? I find seeing two men together more attractive than a man and a woman.

Heh. We're getting into how the mind works again!

I don't think its any different to men who like the idea of lesbians having sex.

But my husband was very happy the night I found the youtube video with John Barrowman on stage with his civil partner singing Rhinestone Cowboy. (admittedly I think partner may have been off key but I am so tone deaf it didn't matter lol)

 

[Mouse]

I don't think its any different to men who like the idea of lesbians having sex.

Exactly.

 

[David Evil Overlord]

As far as on-camera/off camera sex goes, I don't mind it being on camera as long as the reason is more than "the writer wants to titillate the readers".

If it's needed for the plot, then fine. But often you can get the same reader response from a before/build up/about to happen/afterglow view of the couple.

Showing the sex scene must meet the same criteria (for me, anyway) as they-had-sex-when-you-weren't-watching -- how does it advance the plot, and how does it complicate the character's lives? Often those two are the same thing.

Just written an almost-sex scene (the couple were on-camera, they were just about to, and then they were interrupted). This allows me to frustrate my characters, complicate things for them (how do they do it without getting caught?), and set up a re-match in keeping with the plot.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

In my case, the loss that goes through the book, and particularly the sequel, is summed up in it, and only by being there during the intimacy can the reader really be part of that loss.

 

[AnyaKimlin]

My big on camera fantasy one is between a character who is about to die and has waited 50+ years for the guy he has just started going out with. It felt wrong when I killed him not to let him have epic sex first. Plus he's a fire-elemental (my sort of elves) and sex is something that defines their race, they are very much a race of rabid, drunken not quite elves.

With my detectives it was the first time Tim had, had sex after being raped. Every inch of that was important (in so many ways lol)