Fictional religion

Mmm, like Stargate - Goa'uld.

This can really be applied to any god in any religion. In Stargate, the more primitive humans really believed the Goa'uld were Gods - they didn't know any better. The same could be said for us today, how do we know God isn't actually an alien - with superior technology enough to create worlds and lifeforms - doing the same thing the Goa'uld did? Interesting theory. Of course we've never seen God, whereas the Goa'uld made their presence known. Physical manifestation is the key there.

Very much so, I personally believe in God, but the thought process behind it makes a lot of sence. Even in the bible there are descriptions that take me back; A golden chariot flying through the air for example could be a A flying ship but seeing that planes and such didn't exist during that time period it only makes sence to compare it to something they knew and understood.
Juelz
 
Honestly, I don't think most sff genre writers understand much of anything about religion or spirituality, so really I'd just advise go with only what you need for the story with some basic concepts.
 
Honestly, I don't think most sff genre writers understand much of anything about religion or spirituality, so really I'd just advise go with only what you need for the story with some basic concepts.


I have a feeling that the reason behind this is because in most fantasy the god(s) tangibly exist. Or did at one time, or whatever. No mystery behind it.


And in most SF I think it tends to be because religion has almost no place amongst the science and possible technology.


Not to say this is always the case, but, it's trends I've noticed in my own reading material...
 
one alternative not suggested yet is to consider a religious belief in terms of philosophy. Why have Gods when you can have a former preacher / visionary / star influenced academic promote a "way" of life. Bhuddism has a creator, yes, but many practice by the philosophy that leads them to inspiration, being true to themself, living apart from influence of the ego, etc, without the adoration of a diety, devotion to prayer times, etc. It simply becomes a "way of life" for many.

A philosophy also frees you from creating dogma. It may take some explaning in your writing to get the point across to the reader but I like the comment in which it is suggested religion is referenced only through conversation "the great tree knows i can do better".

Of course, science fiction is known for creating two of the best known philosophical movements: Scientology and The Force, so it's not an unusual thing to create a way of belief through philosophy...although The Force is also "belief with special powers" so beware of that one, unless it provides something to your story. Belief backed up by "look what i can do that you can't because i believe" takes away the essence of belief.

It can even be argued that both philosphy and religion are virtually indistinct. Someone discovers a way to life, a way to grow as a person, how to treat others and find fulfilment and they call it philosophy. Strap on a diety, dogma, and the associated trappings of worship and they call it religion. If you follow the ten commandments as a philosphy and set aside the church / prayer / etc you have a less constrictive religion where you believe in an entity who has provided guidance to live, and lets you get on with it. Everyone in the (believing) race within the story would know "actually, you shouldn't steal, kill, covet, make the beast with two backs with the neighbour's wife" etc, and treats the rules as guidance on how they spend their days; but that's it.

Finally, there are plenty of self help guru's out there who, for better or worse, may provide some inspiration on a philosophical way of life and belief towards our part in the universe that might provide some inspiration in creating a religion / philosophy for your work. Ekhart Tolle is one I found intersting.

Good luck!
 
one alternative not suggested yet is to consider a religious belief in terms of philosophy. Why have Gods when you can have a former preacher / visionary / star influenced academic promote a "way" of life. Bhuddism has a creator, yes, but many practice by the philosophy that leads them to inspiration, being true to themself, living apart from influence of the ego, etc, without the adoration of a diety, devotion to prayer times, etc. It simply becomes a "way of life" for many.


Well, for many types of fantasy at least, there tends to be magic, and magic is often derived from gods. Not to mention that such fantasy, such as High Fantasy, or S&S, also tend to be set in more primitive times, and peoples of such times-ancient world in particular-had to come up with reasons of why this did this, that did that, etc., in which philosophy and a "way of life" would not be satisfactory. (Such as, why the seas come in and go out, why the moon tends to change shape each night, why sometimes there are frightening thunderstorms or merciless drought.)
 
I have a god talking to me through my PC – actually there’s more than one – I’m sure ;-)
When my PC’s acting out, an evil god ‘s trying to sabotage me, but as I’m a god myself, I’ll fight it – and win (sometimes ;-)
Of course it could also be a benevolent god trying to slow me down – for my own sake ;-)
Yeah ;-)
I also have a water-(d)evil god making damages coming from the upper appartments, clotting my drains, - or even cutting off the water supply ;-)
My electricity god I almost tamed by now – but the water god and the PC god are frequently (all too frequently) showing off ;-)
But I’ve taken up the challenge – am developing & traning my powers - especially the water god : just you wait !! ;-D
 
I have a god talking to me through my PC – actually there’s more than one – I’m sure ;-)
When my PC’s acting out, an evil god ‘s trying to sabotage me, but as I’m a god myself, I’ll fight it – and win (sometimes ;-)
Of course it could also be a benevolent god trying to slow me down – for my own sake ;-)
Yeah ;-)
I also have a water-(d)evil god making damages coming from the upper appartments, clotting my drains, - or even cutting off the water supply ;-)
My electricity god I almost tamed by now – but the water god and the PC god are frequently (all too frequently) showing off ;-)
But I’ve taken up the challenge – am developing & traning my powers - especially the water god : just you wait !! ;-D


Sorry, I'm scratching my head with this...



Anyway, I think when it comes to fantasy novels, you can really just make things however you want. They don't have to be like any existing religion, and probably might be better if you didn't study up on religions, so that you can add your own unique taste to it without being influenced by outside sources - unless you really want to adapt an already existing religion to your fantasy world, which some people do.

The best way to start I think is with developing a creation myth that the people of your world believe, and build upon it from there. Knowing how your world was made will help you know exactly how it's people would worship the "god(s)" that created the world.
 
I don't go down the road of creation myths. The gods I use have active roles in the mortal realm. I've never understood the point of even using gods if they don't.

Definitely, I do the same. My Gods have an active role in the world, one of my main characters is a goddess.

But I was talking about 'religion' as in organised worship of the god(s) in question. For instance - and this might be only how I see it - Christians worship God because they believe God created us, and I think that might apply to many other religions as well?
 
Well yes, WP. But with gods having an active role in the mortal realm, they could say that they did indeed create us and how, therefore eliminating any need of a true religion. They would speak to us of their desires and needs and how they expect us to behave without anything being based solely off faith.
 
Jake Reynolds - I saw your post but didn't read it now as I am ridiculously sensitive to any form of criticism, even when people are just being kind/constructive. Maybe I'll read it later. ;)

I see all criticism as good, and I think anyone intending to be a writer should consider having a similar outlook. The main reason for this is that you'll get 99.9% criticism for every .1% of (genuine) praise! Anyways, best of luck with it.
 
Ancient peoples generally saw their own gods as active in their own world. There's no distinct between fantasy and ancient mythology there. In fact, remember that fantasy itself is derivative of ancient mythology.

Religion is an extremely complex area of symbolism and doctrine and beliefs, usually with significant cultural variations. Spirituality is a different but no less complex kettle of fish. So unless you really feel you have a special insight into the workings of the religious mind and groupthink, or feel you have communed with God or the Universe, I would suggest you don't try too hard to cover these areas. :)
 
I just based mine on the catholic church, though this was largely because I wanted to work in parallels and various opinion, etc. I find that largely, when I read fantasy, even if the religion is specifically part of the plot I don't tend to consider it's originality. I think it generally goes the other way, to be honest; if a reader can identify with an 'earth' religion, or even elements of one, then it means that belief and faith can have more impact, even if the reader is an atheist. Just because atheists don't believe in God doesn't mean that they cannot appreciate the faith and beliefs of those that do. It is one of the things that sets atheists apart, in that they (we) can understand, tolerate and appreciate the beliefs of others, even if it is not for us. But that's a completely different conversation...
 
IMO,

Classifying religions as monotheistic vs polytheistic is an extremely simple minded way of looking at things. For example, where does Christianity fit in there? Most Christians claim to be monotheistic, but Muslims accuse us of being polytheistic because of our belief in the Trinity.

The most important thing about religion IMO is whether it is actively proselytizing or not. Christians and Muslims have been aggressively converting other people to our religion for millennia. Buddhists not so much.

The amount of political and financial structure of the Church is super important for any fictional storyverse. A world similar to Medieval Europe where the Church basically owns everything is dramatically different from a world more like the modern day. Certainly, absolute power corrupts absolutely, and clerics could be expected to be less benevolent in an uber-powerful Church. Some religions really don't believe in a centralized Church, in which case this whole paragraph is moot. Note that it is quite possible for a religion to be aggressively, even militantly proselytizing even without a Catholic/Mormon style centralized Church. Just look the assorted 19th century Protestant missionaries that went around the world with Bibles and guns.

Another fundamental attribute of any religion is how much emphasis is placed on intercessory outcomes (ie, God/s granting their followers worldly blessings). On one end of the spectrum Prosperity Christians believe that devout faith is rewarded with financial, social, and emotional security. On the other end of the spectrum are many Buddhists and Muslims who expect no worldly blessing, even worldly suffering, but await purely spiritual rewards.

Of course, if your fictional universe has physical Gods stomping around and hurling thunderbolts, then religious belief tends to be quite a bit simpler. Any God sufficiently tangible is indistinguishable from a Sufficiently Advanced Alien. (or a Cosmic Horror, ia fthaghn)
 
Here's another way to look at Religion: from the biological basis (and then working up). It may help if you can see obvious differences with your aliens and humans hence may mould your aliens religion differently.

It's an argument that being religous is a natural 'state' for a human.

I must point out that I am a militant agnostic atheist - or is it an atheist agnositic militant...anyway I am really no expert on religion and really do not have a spiritual bone in my body. But I do find it fascinating to think about...

(WARNING DOES CONTAIN A BIT OF SPECULATION!)

The Basics

Self-Aware Consciousness. As I believe Interface pointed out, the core mystery of 'I know that I am' is really the starting position of all religion. It naturally splits the universe into two parts: me and the rest of the universe. Even my body appears to be 'driven' by my self-aware thoughts (why not call it a 'soul'). Does this duality not feel 'natural'?; flesh and blood animated by a seperate 'soul'. And I'm sure our ancestors on the savannah when seeing a dead member of the tribe would have intuitively made assumption the process of death involved the splitting of this duality - after all the flesh remains but the person is gone...

Imagination and irrational beliefs. The problem with our amazing self-aware consciousness is that we can only really know what we think, everything else out 'there' is unknowable. However this is where belief comes in to rescue us. We hypothesis, imagine, plan, estimate, assume and ultimately test them via experience. To do this is to build a 'working' reality.

This would appear to be the blue print for the scientist, but we are awash with irrational beliefs. Why?

Well there are possibly good evolutionary reasons for us to be irrational - if you are stalking an antelope in the long grasses, a strange rustle nearby might be big cat hunting you - hence you carefully make sure it's not a lioness or scuttle to safety in terror. Now nine times out of ten it could be explained by, say the wind. But the person that believes that it's just the wind all the time will get caught out when it is a lioness/leopard on the prowl (and will pay for it!)

So far so good, this is the mundane experience...

The Other Realm and altered states of the mind. What I've sketched out above is the everyday. To fully understand religion I believe you have to be aware that he human mind operates on other levels. We all dream every night (whether or not we remember), we can experience waking visions, we meditation to lose our sense of being, we imbibe drugs to alter our state of mind. What is important here is that these can be profound and transforming experiences to the individuals and more importantly - they are actually not necessary at all for everyday mundane life.

How to interpret these strange experiences?

Well, science today that these are caused by biochemical imbalances (such as consuming alcohol or shrooms) , diseases or faults in the brain (ecstatic visions caused by epilspesy say, or feverish hallucinations). Essentially a disruption to normal function. Fair enough, seems reasonable!

But an equally valid explanation (especially for those people 50,000 years ago) would be that this is also another 'different' realm - a 'spirit' realm that does not directly interact with our waking reality, yet somehow indirectly touches upon it. Through experimentation there are paths reach these places. Note I called this the spirit realm, because it just mostly impinges on our thoughts - the soul...

This second view is still valid today to some degree, if you so wish - e.g. the process of hynagogic hallucination may be a sleep malfunction or it may be a mode of the brain that is really in communion with some other realm beyond the physical (like an radio antennae tuned to radio waves)

Also note that our ancestors having decided that they were in contact with this Other Realm might also conclude that everything is also in contact: e.g. animals, plants, bodies of water, thunderstorms etc. (the beginings of animism...)

Social bonds. The development of large brains and minds has one major drawback - it takes a long time to nuture and a long time to develop the necessary experiences to survive as an adult. Hence evolution moulded us as social animals to overcome this deficit. The older teach and show the younger. This hierachry when imprinted on our self-aware consciousness naturally makes us extend this out: If parents look after us, and grandparents look after the parents and the group, who looks after them? Does some 'Super' parent out there ensure that there is always nice fruit or that the herds of deer are plentiful. (Of course what happens when food runs out and you starve - have you angered them?)

To try and think about this differently: How would a tiger, with much weaker social interations think about this? Instead of some loving 'super-parent' out there looking out for him, would he instead imagine some savage 'super-predator' out there actively trying to hurt him at the core of his personal 'reglion'?


Putting it all together: Shamen

I must make this clear - this becomes even more speculative - we really just don't know and may never know why our ancestors did what they did. Ever. But here's my take!

Perhaps 50,000 years ago or even more we were: self-aware with a dualistic soul/body, aware of another realm via altered states of the mind, possibly believing in 'super' humans in the spirit world who may be benevolant/angry. (and of course able to communicate all these ideas via language with each other, but we'll assume that!)

It would be natural to assume therefore that as the Spirit realm is non-corpereal, that death could be a process that allows our soul to travel over to the Other Realm leaving the body behind. I think you can see this in the process of burying the dead and graves - it was necessary for the death to be done 'properly' to aid the soul in the transfer across (There of course are other beneficial reasons too: To remember a life and to grieve etc...)

As the Other Realm appears to impact us and our reality it and it was a profound and important place it became necessary for there to be a way for us to travel across and come back again. So the first practitioners, lets call them Shamen, would travel the astral and spirit dimensions to commune with the ancestors or 'gods' to ask questions, divine answers or plead with these powerful beings.

(Note at this stage the Other Realm will reflect the culture of the people that travel there, as how people live now is obviously the 'best' way for humanity to live and their ancestors and gods must do the same, albeit more perfectly.)

These shamen were special people. They were gifted or skilled in the rituals that required them to cross the barrier that most people in society would only cross by accident or at death. So it was very difficult - they ate poisons or sun-danced for days fasting and exhausting themselves.

For example cave paintings in Europe, possibly used by shamens to commune with the spirit world after consuming hallucegenic drugs were not in easily accessible areas - many were in deep in the earth, as if the journey there was part of the process. Not only did they paint animals in these secret grottos, but strange geometric shapes - some have speculated that this is a proto-language - but I like the idea that they are there to aid the hallucegenic trip. Places started to become sacred.

So now you have the mass of society with naive religious beliefs and a caste of shamen who commune directly with the gods.

Roll forward time: As society developed with the advent of agriculture the nature of the gods and religion changed:

- the people would see death and re-birth in their crops - particuarly in temperate zones with seasons, so the idea of 'vegative' gods dying and returning was transferred across to the Other Realm (see Frasier's 'The Golden Bough') Ultimately this would give rise to Christianity - which pulls off this rebirth feat with a monolithic god which is really quite impressive.

-Societies needed to be organised to be efficient in agriculture and Religion as an organising force was recognised and used (really a secular development, but important). Hence the shamens became priests, even kings - morals were codified and enforced. (although I'd say that the necessity of warfare split this role into two: a spiritual and a secular position. High priest and warrior King so to speak.)

-The inaccessable natural sacred places became temples in the peoples cities, places where only the priests were allowed access and was taboo for the public.

Note though that the great religious prophets/saints/leaders still had to go to extremes to touch the realm of god/the gods - they fasted, self-mutilated, were 'blessed' with epilepsy, lived for years in isolation in the wastes of the planet or even atop a marble columns. It had to cost you to commune with god. Still shamens at heart.

Even in the rational world of science we have this template. Great scientists are deemed special, different from the rest of us, uniquely gifted. They commune with the Other Realm - but in this case this is realm of mathematics, modelling, logic, rational thought, science - and they bring back gifts and messages, explanations of how reality works. It too is a realm deemed difficult for most of us. And it costs, men and women destroyed by their visions: Boltzmann, Godel, Cantor driven to madness and suicide for example...


---------

Right my essay is getting a bit too long and convoluted, I'll leave it there ;) Hope you get something from it.
 
I don't go down the road of creation myths. The gods I use have active roles in the mortal realm. I've never understood the point of even using gods if they don't.

Even if the gods don't play an active roll in the world, it often gives the average man or even the protaginist a goal as far as to be like or impress in some way, for example if your one of your characters is a benevolent overlord which enjoys tormenting it's citizens it may follow the ideas of Defroth A god of anger and wrath. Gods often affect people indirectly.

juelz
 
... There is one thing, fundamental to how a society and culture is built, that I still haven't gotten anywhere with - and that is religion.
I myself am an atheist, but I cannot believe that people without advanced technology, as a whole (even though individuals may), can live without religion ...

Perhaps as a starting point consider that all (human) religions originate from sun worship? The divisions between light and darkness and then the treatment of the wind, water, trees as spirits? The summers of plenty, and the barren winters? Praying for rain etc? Also witchcraft, spells, for good or evil purpose, the ability of sorcerers to enter the bodies of wolves or crows to spy from a distance? No end to it, really ...
 
Perhaps as a starting point consider that all (human) religions originate from sun worship?

Just curious, is that true?

The sun is important, but just on reading it I wouldn't have it was the basis of all religions.
 

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