1000 Post Critique - Protagonist Introduction

[Warren_Paul]

hey everyone.

It appears I've babbled my way to 1000 posts

So in the spirit of tradition, here is my 1000 post critique.

It's not the original one I wanted to put up, but to do the scene I had in mind justice, I'd need a much higher word limit. So we have the very first scene for the main protagonist here instead, which of course is one of the most important scenes in the book.

Its a wee bit on the big side, 938 words.

I'm hoping it's intriguing, rich, and put us right into the little dramas Emylynn and Alyce share as siblings. And of course entertaining.

In this draft I've also started adding steampunk-like elements. The era my book reflects has become a bit mashed up now, but the closest I'd say is the early 1900s.

***​

The breeze trickled through the canopy of trees, casting its cold touch throughout the orchard. Emylynn smiled, and pulled the hair back from her head, determined to enjoy every second of this blessed cool that relieved the heat of the spring sun. If only she didn’t have her shadow, then the day would be perfect.

Emylynn was sure the gods gave the world younger sisters to torture their siblings, and so far Alyce had been doing a more than satisfactory job.

‘When do you think Ben’s going to ask me to the dance?’ Alyce asked her, for what must have been the hundredth time, which was ninety-nine times more than Emylynn felt like answering.

A flurry of possible answers raced through her head, each one worse than the next, and no less true than the first. She bit her tongue. Emylynn couldn’t be sure their father’s stablehand had even looked Alyce’s way, let alone wanted to ask her to the spring dance.

‘What should I wear?’ Alyce asked.

Try feathers, or maybe a blue gown with an apron? How about hot pink with oversized white ribbons? Emylynn knew better than to say any of that out loud, Alyce was famous for her tantrums. She’d been dealing with them for ten years now, ever since Alyce had turned four and learnt how to wrap their father around her little finger.

‘Maybe I could wear Mother’s dress?’

Emylynn groaned. They’d had this conversation before, many times. She knew what was coming, and knew better than to answer.

She busied herself by plucking a blood red apple from the nearest tree and placing it in the basket that cheerfully motored along by her side, the casual swishing of its propellers keeping the contraption afloat.

Emylynn passed underneath a low hanging branch and proceeded to the next tree, but Alyce’s hand tugging on her sleeve brought Emylynn up short. She glanced down at it, then up at Alyce’s pleading face. She sighed. ‘I don’t think you’ll fit mother’s dress.’ Why don’t you ever listen to me? You’re too fat!

Alyce’s face darkened and she started to tremble as storm clouds brewed in her eyes. ‘Oh and I suppose the dress will fit you, won’t it?’

Another apple went in the basket. Emylynn avoided making eye contact with her sister; that would be fatal. She wouldn’t be able to hide the angry scowl on her face. Is it my problem I’m shaped like mother and you’re not? ‘I’ll help you make a nice dress to wear.’

‘I don’t want to make one, I want Mother’s dress!’ And I’d like to be left alone. We don’t always get what we want.

Emylynn bunched her fists, controlling her anger. She tore another apple from a branch and chucked it at the basket, which leaped forward to catch it when the apple fell short of its rim.

‘Don’t you have jobs to do?’ Emylynn asked. Please, just go away.

‘Matt’s doing them,’ Alyce answered, and followed along, evidently missing the hint, or deliberately ignoring it. Knowing Alyce it was likely the latter.

Matt should give up. ‘You need to stop encouraging him.’

‘Why?’

Emylynn sighed. ‘Because it’s cruel.’ Because you’re a spoil brat that should learn to do something for herself!

‘He doesn’t seem to mind.’

‘One day he will grow a brain and realise he’s barking up the wrong tree.’

‘As long as it’s not anytime soon, I’ve still got the chickens to feed.’

‘You know Brandt doesn’t like you taking advantage of him like that.’

‘Uncle Brandt isn’t here right now.’

‘That’s not the point.’

‘Then what is?’

Emylynn groaned, and tugged on another apple, it held on to its branch. She glared at it and pulled harder. The apple came loose and the branch quickly flicked back up into the depths of the tree. Emylynn suddenly found herself covered in a spattering of loose leaves.

‘You look like a Spring Tree,’ Alyce said, and laughed.

Emylynn shook off the leaves and glared at her. ‘And you look like Mistress Mertellie’s crock-pot.’ Whoops, did I just say that out loud? Emylynn quickly hid her smile.

Alyce’s mouth fell open. ‘Did you just call me fat?’

‘I take it you don’t look in the mirror much?’ Now I’ve done it.

Alyce’s face returned to a deep shade of red, and her hands balled into fists. She glared furiously at Emylynn. Suddenly she turned away, storming across the orchard, shoving aside a branch that got in her way. She stopped at the edge of the orchard, and turned back towards Emylynn.

‘I hate you!’ she said, turned away again, and was soon lost from sight.

Emylynn watched her go, thinking she should follow after, knowing she’d gone too far this time. Best stop her now. Emylynn knew if she didn’t there’d be a series of doors slamming shut in the girl’s wake, a frown from their father, and then he’d be telling her to go calm Alyce down, again! Would be so much easier if she just learnt how to grow up!

She sighed, and ran after. The basket raced to keep up with her, its engine revving madly. It made a loud screeching sound and suddenly there were apples on runaway courses in all directions.

Emylynn stopped, and looked back at it. The propeller had caught on the raised root of a tree and turned the basket upside down, before the mechanism had seized and it tumbled to the ground.

Her face gradually slid into a look of resignation. Sometimes I hate my life. A door slammed shut in the distance. Make that all the time.

*​

 

[Jake Reynolds]

Hey Warren, I really like it. It's nice that you don't draw atention to the existence of a motorised basket until it has a reason to remarked upon. I hate it when sci-fi/ steampunk writers feel that they have to explain every awesome bit of tech stuff for no reason. Good start.

 

[Warren_Paul]

Thanks Jake, glad you enjoyed it.




Hmm, no bites? Should I take that as a good thing, or is it just too horrible that people can't stand to comment on it?

 

[The Judge]

Congratulations on the 1,000th and well done for adhering to tradition!

It's a nice easy read, amusing in a gentle way, with the characters delineated well, though I can't say that intriguing, rich or dramatic were adjectives which sprung to my mind if you were serious there.

As a personal prejudice I dislike having a lot of italicised direct thoughts in a scene, and although you handle them well in the main I'd question whether you need all of them -- you should trust your readers to pick up things without having to spell everything out each time, and I think it would become a little wearisome if you were to continue like this throughout the book.

Another bug-bear of mine is using modern-day language in a non-modern setting and that did annoy -- eg hot pink, any time soon, whoops. Ditto attitudes -- precious few men who could afford to have a stable hand would allow their daughters to think of going to any dance with them, and the whole conversation gives me the impression of modern western girls not ones from another era/country/whatever. Certainly they are not talking like girls from c1900, though clearly I don't know how much of that is a deliberate decision of yours.

I have to confess that the picking ripe apples off the tree in spring rather annoyed me also -- it felt like you were waving a big banner in my face saying "Look! This is Fantasy!! Things are different here!!" Do you have a reason for these trees bearing apples in the spring?

NB If she's bunching her fists, how is she picking another apple? (And why anger as opposed to irritation?)

Quite a few nit-picking things I noticed on a quick read eg "blood-red" requires a hyphen; she's a spoiled (or spoilt) brat; "... loud, Alyce..." requires a semi-colon -- the comma isn't strong enough, but conversely I don't like the one between "... sister; that..." which I think would be better as a comma; I think "stable hand" is probably better as two words, not one, or perhaps hyphenated, and "any time" is definitely two; I'd have a comma in "Oh, and..." and I'm sure there was another I saw but which I can't find now; and I'd go easy on the exclamation marks, they're not needed.

Overall, as I say, gentle and amusing and a good introduction to the heroine.

 

[alchemist]

Hi Warren. Congrats on the big Millenium.

I won't comment much here; something quite similar popped out of the printer at work today!

I thought this piece flowed well and you've conveyed her feelings quite convincingly. Like TJ, I think there were too many italics. Some worked well (such as the very last line) but some weren't needed.

 

[Warren_Paul]

Congratulations on the 1,000th and well done for adhering to tradition!

It's a nice easy read, amusing in a gentle way, with the characters delineated well, though I can't say that intriguing, rich or dramatic were adjectives which sprung to my mind if you were serious there.

Thanks, TJ. Yeah, in hindsight, probably not the right adjectives to go with the scene, and probably mean something different to what I was getting at. I was more getting at, would you want to read more? Did things like the basket draw interest? Did the characters personalities and the way they relate to each other come over well - which is answered, thanks.

Another bug-bear of mine is using modern-day language in a non-modern setting and that did annoy -- eg hot pink, any time soon, whoops. Ditto attitudes -- precious few men who could afford to have a stable hand would allow their daughters to think of going to any dance with them, and the whole conversation gives me the impression of modern western girls not ones from another era/country/whatever. Certainly they are not talking like girls from c1900, though clearly I don't know how much of that is a deliberate decision of yours.

Hmm. I could probably drop the "hot" and just say pink.

Yes, they don't talk like 1900s would, and not the first to mention it either. I did consciously decide to leave it that way when I chose to make the book targeted at YA instead of adult, but I wonder...

I can't really place an era for my book, like I said, it's mashed up. For 1900s I was talking more about the technology level, like cars just starting to come into existence, and electricity, phones, and such. In regards to the way they act, I was going more for an attitude and way of talking that YA of today can relate to.

Is that a bad thing, should I change it, make it more realistic for the closest era?

I have to confess that the picking ripe apples off the tree in spring rather annoyed me also -- it felt like you were waving a big banner in my face saying "Look! This is Fantasy!! Things are different here!!" Do you have a reason for these trees bearing apples in the spring?

To be honest, I hadn't even thought about the fact that apples are out of season in spring. Is it autumn that they are in season? Hard to know since apples are available all year, and Google isn't telling me anything

Something to think about. Not sure if I could get away with changing the season, maybe a different sort of fruit, one that is possibly ripe in spring.

Apricots come to mind. It has to be a fruit that is used in pies.

NB If she's bunching her fists, how is she picking another apple? (And why anger as opposed to irritation?)

Quite a few nit-picking things I noticed on a quick read eg "blood-red" requires a hyphen; she's a spoiled (or spoilt) brat; "... loud, Alyce..." requires a semi-colon -- the comma isn't strong enough, but conversely I don't like the one between "... sister; that..." which I think would be better as a comma; I think "stable hand" is probably better as two words, not one, or perhaps hyphenated, and "any time" is definitely two; I'd have a comma in "Oh, and..." and I'm sure there was another I saw but which I can't find now; and I'd go easy on the exclamation marks, they're not needed.

Thanks, a few things to fix up there. Good point about the fist bunching. Considering I use that same description later on as well, I might just change it to something else.


@Alchemist Thanks, and yeah, it's in what you have. Although this version has a slight few modifications, just little bits here and there that I picked up on myself as I posted it up here.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

Hey, WP, congrats on the 1000th, for the same reason as Alc, I'll not do a critique here, I think it's ahead for me. On a first read, I think it's much better, but it still leads me too much in emotions etc, and the italics tell me where I'd prefer it to be shown in her actions etc instead. But more of a sense of character here.

I can help about fruit trees; pretty much all of them bear fruit in the late summer or early autumn. (they flower in spring but take time to develop fruit.)
For spring picking, I can't think of anything, fruitwise, other than rhubarb. Some berries are quite early, like redcurrants, but even so the adage continues; they bud in spring, and fruit in autumn. plums and apricots might be slightly earlier. Strawberries? crop from early summer.

 

[Warren_Paul]

Hey, WP, congrats on the 1000th, for the same reason as Alc, I'll not do a critique here, I think it's ahead for me. On a first read, I think it's much better, but it still leads me too much in emotions etc, and the italics tell me where I'd prefer it to be shown in her actions etc instead. But more of a sense of character here.

I can help about fruit trees; pretty much all of them bear fruit in the late summer or early autumn. (they flower in spring but take time to develop fruit.)
For spring picking, I can't think of anything, fruitwise, other than rhubarb. Some berries are quite early, like redcurrants, but even so the adage continues; they bud in spring, and fruit in autumn. plums and apricots might be slightly earlier. Strawberries? crop from early summer.

hmm, okay. So unless I wan't to say the cycles don't work the same I might be in trouble there. For some reason a google search told me apricots ripened in late spring, early summer, but then, don't believe everything you read on the internet...


EDIT: Mangoes?

 

[Jo Zebedee]

Don't know about mangoes, but don't they grow in subtropical? I think you need to decide what type of environment your world has; tropical, northern, southern and then see what fits. I'd avoid northern, few things take off until summer. I could see apricots being a little earlier, given they're smaller, but in horticultural terms early summer and spring are different.

 

[Warren_Paul]

Yeah, good point.

Kartall Valley is the piggy in the middle, it's temperate, with Hintervale to the south which is almost a polar climate, and to the north, the Northern Highlands on one side of the Spine, and the subtropical Skaarigg Tribelands and Naeusomassu Pridelands on the other side of the Spine.

So considering that, mangoes wouldn't naturally grow in Kartall Valley, although there are strains of mangoes made to withstand the frosts of temperate climates - and Kartall Valley does get frosts, just not snow.


I do have one option though, a greenhouse, I've got floating baskets, I think I could manage a greenhouse big enough for trees to grow in. Although now we are making John out to be much richer than he is, although possibly, he could be, since he is trading in horses with the local Count. But, he might also need more staff, which is more characters I'll have to explain and deal with when time comes for them all to disappear.


Of course there is another option: I just make a fruit up and say it's season is spring time in temperate climates.

 

[Warren_Paul]

Ha! got it. Lemons.

They have skins (remembered the fruit has to have a skin you peel for a later scene), are commonly used in pies, can season all year around, and grow in temperate climates.

 

[TheDustyZebra]

Congratulations on the 1000th!

On first read, I believe TJ has covered everything that concerned me, with one exception, and if the apples go away, that one will, too. My concern there was that one should not pull that hard to get apples off the tree -- when they're ready, they come easily, and if you yank them off when they aren't ready, you risk removing the err...I forget what the technical term is, I want to say "pip"...that will make an apple next year. People with orchards are more careful than that, although I can't speak for their children.

Edited to add: I went to look for the name of the piece I'm thinking of, and I can't even find anything that mentions my theory from above, so I could be making the whole thing up. I know that I have read it, but it seems to be lost.

In the search for a different fruit, I'll say that I read on a pie box at the store the "fun fact" that cherries are the only fruit that don't have a season. I don't know where these pies are from, because cherries (and everything else) most definitely do have a season in Colorado, but maybe there's a grain of truth to it in some climates, if that helps. But if you have that much heat in your spring sun, it's probably warm enough to have something you can harvest fairly early in the year.

Edited also to add: I found an apple called the Lodi that is harvested in mid-June, and also much information that says you should pick early for fruit that will be stored, so you could probably get away with the beginning of June that way.

Anyway, I found it entertaining, and look forward to seeing more as you go!

 

[Warren_Paul]

Thanks TDZ.

I looked at cherries, they do have a season, late summer I believe, so not sure what that pie box was on about... and even if they really didn't have a season it isn't true that it is the only fruit that doesn't.

She was really annoyed -changed from anger to frustration- with Alyce at the time, so I'd expect her to be a bit rougher with the fruit. But in my search for an all-year-round fruit I decided on lemons, see my last post, which from experience, are really stubborn to pick, so it fits, I think.

Anyway, I found it entertaining, and look forward to seeing more as you go!

I'm glad you enjoyed it. I think I'm quite happy with the way this draft is turning out, but I regret to say this will probably be the last critique I post up, as the book is fully written, just me polishing it up now and redrafting certain chapters. I only posted this excerpt for traditions sake.

From here on I'll be limiting it to critiques through more private channels, I think.

 

[Gumboot]

If you want spring fruit the following can potentially be ripe in the spring (although it really depends on the climate)

Apricots - late spring/early summer
Cherries - late spring/early summer (vans tend to ripen first, black cherries later)
Figs - late spring/early summer
Grapefruit - all year round
Lemons - late winter to mid-spring
Watermelon - late spring/early summer
Orange (valencia) - late summer to mid winter

 

[Warren_Paul]

Thanks, Gumboot. Looks like lemons it is.

 

[TheDustyZebra]

Is life giving you lemons? Take'em to the 1000-post lounge and add some sort of alcohol....

 

[The Judge]

I was more getting at, would you want to read more? Did things like the basket draw interest?

I'd give you a bit longer, but I think I'd want something to happen pretty quickly if this were near the beginning, but I'm not your target readership by a long chalk if this is YA. I'm not overfond of books with teenage protagonists, particularly moody/stroppy teenagers, so my opinion can safely be discounted. The basket was interesting, but not enough of itself to make me read on if the relationships and plot weren't holding my attention.

In regards to the way they act, I was going more for an attitude and way of talking that YA of today can relate to.

Is that a bad thing, should I change it, make it more realistic for the closest era?

Attitude and language develop from society, they're not something you can take from one era to another without thought for the underlying basis of them. Girls in the western world can speak with a certain level of freedom because of the social emancipation achieved over the last several hundred years. Compare the life of a girl in your town/city with one from an area controlled by the Taliban -- they may each have the same kind of annoying younger sister, and that sister might have a crush on a boy, but they way they are allowed to express themselves will be very different.

So, to me, anachronistic thought and speech are indicative of a story which is Hollywoodised, not one where thought has gone into the creation of a real milieu with real history and real social structures and problems. For me it's a question of authenticity. But, as I've said, I'm not your target readership and undoubtedly this will be easier for YA to relate to, whereas something more realistic might perhaps be off-putting.

 

[crystal haven]

Congratulations on reaching your 1000th post.

I enjoyed reading your story, finding it quite entertaining, and thought the basket worked well. I agree with many of the comments though, particularly about the italics - after a while I found them a little annoying.

I don't know a lot about YA, but I think it can cover quite a large age group, therefore it might be worth deciding where you want to aim your book. And I agree with The Judge about using modern words. I can remember reading a YA book of my daughter's, and the language was very 'old fashioned' fitting the era. Your girls confused me a bit, seeming a little young for going to a dance, and I feel a few words more suiting the era of your book would help with this. Most girls would still have been chaperoned to a dance, I think, although it was going out of fashion.

After saying all that, I did enjoy it, and would be happy to read on. It kept my attention. Well done.

 

[Warren_Paul]

See, I'm a bit confused by this dialogue issue, and actually having a hard time understanding what I need to change, if anything?

I wonder... If I hadn't mentioned anything about the era, what would the impression be then?

Way back when I did my first and second rewrite (currently on my 5th), way before I joined the Chrons, I tried writing as they did in the time and got negative responses that it pulled the reader out of the scene, so I started writing a bit more modern like, but that doesn't seem to be working either. Yet now that same reader says this version is much better and sounds natural, yet it's modern... A little confused, unless that reader was just wrong - not a member of the chrons btw, incase anyone is wondering.

Which leaves me to wonder more.

Is it what they are talking about that's the problem? That it doesn't match what we would expect of the time, even though its a fantasy world, with different standards and moralities to that of Earth? Although saying that, I'm not entirely sure the moralities of my world really is that much different...

I think about Steven Erikson's books, and I'm pretty sure the moral code and way characters acted was quite different to what they would on Earth in a comparable era.

If it's historical fantasy and based on Earth, I'd understand how this is a problem, but what if the age of the world is comparable to that of present day Earth, yet technology has just developed differently, to the point where some medieval things like swords are still used, yet coincide with modern inventions like vehicles?

If I've got modern technology mixed with old, then why not modern dialogue and morals mixed with old?

What was it that made us change the way we talk? Was it technology, or was it just age, or was there some other issue that affected the progression of dialogue? EDIT: rereading a bit of TJ's post might have answered this.

I think I rambled a bit. but just musing, and trying to figure out exactly what I need to change.

Maybe some examples would be helpful?

 

[Warren_Paul]

For anyone that's interested, here is an updated version, taking into account the feedback. Thanks everyone for the help so far.

I've toned down the italics to what I feel are the important bits, and removed what exclamation marks I felt I could.

***​

The breeze trickled through the canopy of trees, casting its cold touch throughout the orchard. Emylynn smiled, and pulled the hair back from her head, determined to enjoy every second of this blessed cool that relieved the heat of the spring sun. If only she didn’t have her shadow, then the day would be perfect.

Emylynn was sure the gods gave the world younger sisters to torture their siblings, and so far Alyce had been doing a more than satisfactory job.

‘When do you think Ben’s going to ask me to the dance?’ Alyce asked her, for what must have been the hundredth time, which was ninety-nine times more than Emylynn felt like answering.

A flurry of possible answers raced through her head, each one worse than the next, and no less true than the first. She bit her tongue. Emylynn couldn’t be sure their father’s stable hand had even looked Alyce’s way, let alone wanted to ask her to the spring dance.

‘What should I wear?’ Alyce asked.

Try feathers, or maybe a blue gown with an apron? How about pink with oversized white ribbons? Emylynn knew better than to say any of that out loud; Alyce was famous for her tantrums. She’d been dealing with them for ten years now, ever since Alyce had turned four and learnt how to wrap their father around her little finger.

‘Maybe I could wear Mother’s dress?’

Emylynn groaned. They’d had this conversation before, many times. She knew what was coming, and knew better than to answer.

She busied herself by plucking a lemon from the nearest tree and placing it in the basket that cheerfully motored along by her side, the casual swishing of its propellers keeping the contraption afloat.

Emylynn passed underneath a low hanging branch and proceeded to the next tree, but Alyce’s hand tugging on her sleeve brought Emylynn up short. She glanced down at it, then up at Alyce’s pleading face. She sighed. ‘I don’t think you’ll fit mother’s dress.’ Why don’t you ever listen to me? You’re too fat.

Alyce’s face darkened and she started to tremble as storm clouds brewed in her eyes. ‘Oh, and I suppose the dress will fit you, won’t it?’

Another lemon went in the basket. Emylynn avoided making eye contact with her sister; that would be fatal. She wouldn’t be able to hide the annoyed scowl on her face. ‘I’ll help you make a nice dress to wear.’

‘I don’t want to make one, I want Mother’s dress!’ And I’d like to be left alone. We don’t always get what we want.

Emylynn breathed deeply, to control her frustration, then tore another lemon from a branch and chucked it at the basket, which leaped forward to catch it when the lemon fell short of its rim.

‘Don’t you have jobs to do?’ Emylynn asked.

‘Matt’s doing them,’ Alyce answered, and followed along, evidently missing the hint, or deliberately ignoring it. Knowing Alyce it was likely the latter.

‘You need to stop encouraging him.’

‘Why?’

Emylynn sighed. ‘Because it’s cruel.’ Because you’re a spoiled brat that should learn to do something for herself!

‘He doesn’t seem to mind.’

‘One day he will grow a brain and realise he’s barking up the wrong tree.’

‘As long as it’s not any time soon, I’ve still got the chickens to feed.’

‘You know Brandt doesn’t like you taking advantage of him like that.’

‘Uncle Brandt isn’t here right now.’

‘That’s not the point.’

‘Then what is?’

Emylynn groaned, and tugged on another lemon, it held on to its branch. She glared at it and pulled harder. The lemon came loose and the branch quickly flicked back up into the depths of the tree. Emylynn suddenly found herself covered in a spattering of loose leaves.

‘You look like a Spring Tree,’ Alyce said, and laughed.

Emylynn shook off the leaves and glared at her. ‘And you look like Mistress Mertellie’s crock-pot.’ Emylynn quickly hid her smile.

Alyce’s mouth fell open. ‘Did you just call me fat?’

‘I take it you don’t look in the mirror much?’

Alyce’s face returned to a deep shade of red, and her hands balled into fists. She glared furiously at Emylynn. Suddenly she turned away, storming across the orchard, shoving aside a branch that got in her way. She stopped at the edge of the orchard, and turned back towards Emylynn.

‘I hate you!’ she said, turned away again, and was soon lost from sight.

Emylynn watched her go, thinking she should follow after, knowing she’d gone too far this time. Emylynn knew if she didn’t stop Alyce now, there’d be a series of doors slamming shut in the girl’s wake, a frown from their father, and then he’d be telling her to go calm Alyce down, again! It would be so much easier if she just learnt how to grow up.

She sighed, and ran after. The basket raced to keep up with her, its engine revving madly. It made a loud screeching sound and suddenly there were lemons on runaway courses in all directions.

Emylynn stopped, and looked back at it. The propeller had caught on the raised root of a tree and turned the basket upside down, before the mechanism had seized and it tumbled to the ground.

Her face gradually slid into a look of resignation. Sometimes I hate my life. A door slammed shut in the distance. Make that all the time.

*​