A few random thoughts

[The Imp]

I was having lunch with a good friend today, a convert who is just finishing up AFFC. We were talking about the books and the TV show and I had a couple of realizations-

We were talking about Arya's death wishes, and how in the book she chose Weese with her first wish. I commented on his dog actually being the one that killed him, but then it struck me, how exactly did Jaqan get the dog to not only turn on his master but rip him to shreds? Is it possible that Jaqan warged into the dog? Is it possible that FM can do this. Can Jaqan be a warg, and if so, what does that mean for other FM? Maybe he is just "lucky" to be born with the gift, but I somehow think there would be more to it than that.

The second thing we talked about was Jorah, and how he was keeping people in Westeros) Varys?) informed as to what Dany was doing, where she was, etc. How exactly did he do this? He certainly didn't use email or twitter . How about Facebook? (Dany unfriended me today ) Nah. It had to have been ravens, but these had to have been some really smart birds, as Jorah was moving around and the raven coming to him would have no way of knowing where he was exactly. Does this idea support the idea that Varys' group of little birds might be made up not only of children but of ravens as well?

Apologies in advance if these things have been brought up before.

 

[Timba]

FM warging. Seems to fit the facts. So does this imply they perhaps know Arya can warg?

The communication channel seems less clear to me if for no other reason than we do not get a clear idea of how long these communications take other than the time the kill order was sent to hunt down Dany and then when rescinded Vary's said he did not know if there would be enough time which says to me the time line seems longer than a bird flight was likely to take but perhaps I am reading too much into that.

 

[Needle]

On Jorah, I seem to remember him always visiting the ships each time they arrived somewhere new. That is where he was when both attacks on Dany (the wine and the scorpian) happened. He arrived in time to stop the wine seller but if Arstan had not shown up when he did the scorpion would have gotten her. This suggests hand delivered mail!

Okay now, FM WARGS! Now your just trying to fry my poor little brain! The dog raises valid questions, but I gotta give this one some thought!

 

[The Imp]

On Jorah, I seem to remember him always visiting the ships each time they arrived somewhere new. That is where he was when both attacks on Dany (the wine and the scorpian) happened. He arrived in time to stop the wine seller but if Arstan had not shown up when he did the scorpion would have gotten her. This suggests hand delivered mail!

Okay now, FM WARGS! Now your just trying to fry my poor little brain! The dog raises valid questions, but I gotta give this one some thought!

You guys are lucky I didn't go into full crazy mode and suggest that Syrio is Jaqn who is Ned and Jaqan can warg becuase he's a Stark.

I never said that. SHHHHHHH

 

[Tywin]

Warging seems to be exclusively a skill of the north, and other than the dog attacking Weese we see no evidence for it. Arya's trick of using the cat to see for her seemed to confound the kindly man, which would lead me to think that it is not something that he is familiar with.

Jaqan being tricky and training Weese's dog in secret, or scenting Weese's coat with some crazy dog-LSD, or something like that seems more in character with the sort of training that Arya's been getting from the faceless men.

 

[Boaz]

Imp, I love your outside ofthebox thinking, but I find Tywin's reasoning satisfying.

 

[The Imp]

Warging seems to be exclusively a skill of the north, and other than the dog attacking Weese we see no evidence for it. Arya's trick of using the cat to see for her seemed to confound the kindly man, which would lead me to think that it is not something that he is familiar with.

Jaqan being tricky and training Weese's dog in secret, or scenting Weese's coat with some crazy dog-LSD, or something like that seems more in character with the sort of training that Arya's been getting from the faceless men.

Warging might be exclusive to the North, and might in some way involve the Old Gods, but we can't rule out the possbility that non-Northerners can warg just because we haven't seen anyone do it yet. Warging into the dog would be quick, easy and effective.Trfaining the dog is out of the question IMO, some sort of chemical sounds possible.

As for the Kindly Man, Arya, and the cat- the whole series of events that started with Syrio blindfolding Ary, to the Kindly man blinding her, to her warging into the cat, those all seem too connected to me. I thnink the Kindly Man knows exactly what Arya is capable of, and may have been trying to "force' her to warg, just as i beleive that he knows that she has Needle hidden under the step outside the temple.

 

[Young stormlord]

Warging might be exclusive to the North, and might in some way involve the Old Gods, but we can't rule out the possbility that non-Northerners can warg just because we haven't seen anyone do it yet. Warging into the dog would be quick, easy and effective.Trfaining the dog is out of the question IMO, some sort of chemical sounds possible.

As for the Kindly Man, Arya, and the cat- the whole series of events that started with Syrio blindfolding Ary, to the Kindly man blinding her, to her warging into the cat, those all seem too connected to me. I thnink the Kindly Man knows exactly what Arya is capable of, and may have been trying to "force' her to warg, just as i beleive that he knows that she has Needle hidden under the step outside the temple.

Rumours about lord Bloodraven:

How many eyes does Lord Bloodraven have? the riddle ran. A thousand eyes, and one.

Some claimed the King's Hand was a student of the dark arts who could change his face, put on the likeness of a one-eyed dog, even turn into a mist. Packs of gaunt gray wolves hunted down his foes, men said, and carrion crows spied for him and whispered secrets in his ear. Most of the tales were only tales, Dunk did not doubt, but no one could doubt that Bloodraven had informers everywhere.

So, both Faceless Man and a warg, if we take rumours at face value. It stands to reason that Faceless Men got wiser since Bloodraven's time and actually know about warging students. Mayhaps he left the organisation.

 

[Keebs411]

Also skin changers and other wargs ( who have been doing it for some time) seem to be able to sense others who have the ability. They was the wildings knew about jons ability even before he realized. And jaq seemed to sought out arraya after shed saved him, perhaps if he can also warg he could sense she also had this abilty before she herself knew and in qatxhing her not only gave her the 3 kills to name but the coin thinking she too would do well with the FM??

Btw love thw bit about BR possibly being both warg and FM helping the argument that one could be both.

 

[The Imp]

Also skin changers and other wargs ( who have been doing it for some time) seem to be able to sense others who have the ability. They was the wildings knew about jons ability even before he realized. And jaq seemed to sought out arraya after shed saved him, perhaps if he can also warg he could sense she also had this abilty before she herself knew and in qatxhing her not only gave her the 3 kills to name but the coin thinking she too would do well with the FM??

Btw love thw bit about BR possibly being both warg and FM helping the argument that one could be both.

Ditto

Adding Bloodraven into the mix makes the idea even more intersting.

 

[juleska]

Could it be that warging is a skill and not merely a gift? While certain people are born with the ability to be a warg, there are some who can learn the craft? If so that would make sense that the Faceless Men would have warging in their arsenal.

 

[mtzGr]

Could it be that warging is a skill and not merely a gift? While certain people are born with the ability to be a warg, there are some who can learn the craft? If so that would make sense that the Faceless Men would have warging in their arsenal.

"One man in a thousand is borne a skinchanger, and one skin changer in a thousand could be a greenseer."

That's what it says on the Westeros wiki. That may be factually wrong, but it sounds like something that was mentioned in the books, though no reference is given. Even if it was mentioned, it doesn't necessarily mean that you can only be born with the ability, but I don't think it's something that can be learned/taught, if only for the fact that it loses its distinction of being special or rare.

 

[Timba]

"One man in a thousand is borne a skinchanger, and one skin changer in a thousand could be a greenseer."

That's what it says on the Westeros wiki. That may be factually wrong, but it sounds like something that was mentioned in the books, though no reference is given. Even if it was mentioned, it doesn't necessarily mean that you can only be born with the ability, but I don't think it's something that can be learned/taught, if only for the fact that it loses its distinction of being special or rare.

I am pretty sure that quote may not be exact but certainly sums up info given to Bran, I think after they get to the cave and into the underworld. Of course could just be my brain expelling posterior breezes also.

 

[juleska]

"One man in a thousand is borne a skinchanger, and one skin changer in a thousand could be a greenseer."

That's what it says on the Westeros wiki. That may be factually wrong, but it sounds like something that was mentioned in the books, though no reference is given. Even if it was mentioned, it doesn't necessarily mean that you can only be born with the ability, but I don't think it's something that can be learned/taught, if only for the fact that it loses its distinction of being special or rare.

Yeah I do remember that quote. It certainly establishes how rare the gift is, but it doesn't necessarily preclude the idea that someone else can learn to do it. It's been established that the Faceless Men can do things that nobody else can do and nobody else can understand or explain. Nobody knows how they carry out their assassinations, they only know the FM are utterly unrivaled in so doing.

 

[ArstenWhitebeard]

I don't think the dog attacking his master had anything to do with warging. Cruel owners breed cruel dogs. I think in the book it is mentioned that the dog wasn't treated very well, so I think Jaqen simply slit the dudes throat, then the dog just went to town on his dead master.

 

[Keebs411]

Warging might be exclusive to the North, and might in some way involve the Old Gods, but we can't rule out the possbility that non-Northerners can warg just because we haven't seen anyone do it yet. .

Just to back your stament further as far as warging not being exclusive to the north. I have currently been going over any and all things bloodraven and the 3 eyed crow and the wall. So today @ work during break i was going through a wiki of ice and fire about the 3 eyed crow that does point out

The mother of Brynden Rivers was Mylessa of House Blackdood which is descended from the first men, and is one of the few houses south of the Neck that still keeps the Old Gods. If either of those factors are prerequisites for greenseers, Rivers satisfies them.
The three-eyed crow favors ravens for skinchanging. Brynden's nickname is 'Bloodraven'.

this also furthers the notion of a warg being in the raven who sticks with The old bear and jon snow (it sends no messeges and can say more then most of the other ravens)

so placing this all together witht he fact that BR was known to be a former master of whispers (before varys) amoung the his other rumors of magic and such i say the argument of him being both fm and warg grows srtonger. sure targs are not from the north but some of their mothers could have been northerners or of the old gods

 

[Syphon of Oor-Tael]

Jaqen being a warg? Naw. It's fairly simple to sick a dog on someone when you've hurt the dog or just made it scared or angry enough. Not to say that I routinely hurt, scare or anger dogs, but from my observations I can tell that it shouldn't be that hard. You have to keep in mind that dogs will act on instinct.

As for Jorah, I'm sure that it was said he just gives letters to those people sailing for Westeros. Or maybe he used LinkedIn (you didn't say LinkedIn )

 

[ArstenWhitebeard]

I am in agreement with Syphon, however, I am intrigued by the question of weather or not Warging is resigned strictly to the North. I wouldn't believe that it is.

If we accept that it has something to do with bloodlines, then we have to accept that it can happen anywhere in Westeros or even accross the narrow sea. If Lyanna had married Robert and moved to King's landing with him, I see no reason why her children, born in the south, wouldn't be able to Warg. Even after a few generations, I don't see why that ability would die down, but then again, Magic. It's like the force in star wars, it can explain why everything can and can't happen.

Why is Bran better at Warging than Robb? Magic.

How did Jaqen Hagar get that dog to attack its master? Magic.
actually, that gets me thinking... What if Jaqen made himself look like Weese and got the Dog to attack the real Weese? :O

 

[Keebs411]

I thought a fm could only use the face of some one already dead. How ever keeping with the poss of a fm w warging ability perhaps jaq warged into weese and the dog attacked weese sensing the imposter with in him?

 

[The Imp]

Jaqen being a warg? Naw. It's fairly simple to sick a dog on someone when you've hurt the dog or just made it scared or angry enough. Not to say that I routinely hurt, scare or anger dogs, but from my observations I can tell that it shouldn't be that hard. You have to keep in mind that dogs will act on instinct.

As for Jorah, I'm sure that it was said he just gives letters to those people sailing for Westeros. Or maybe he used LinkedIn (you didn't say LinkedIn )

As a dog owner for the better part of 40 years, I'll say that I've never owned or met a dog that wasn't absolutlely loyal to me (or its') master, and there's no way that you could have gotten any of my dogs to even growl at me, let alone attack. Perhaps the theory that Weese's dog svaged him after he was dead is true, but my belief is that no dog would shred its' master after he or she was dead, not even a scumbag master such as Weese. Maybe Jaqan could have used some sort of scent on Weese to confuse the dog, as they rely most on smell, but they also know their master's voice.