A few thoughts after season 2

[Nerds_feather]

i really enjoyed the first season, but have found the second season frustrating.

i don't mind having sex and violence in a tv show, if it serves a purpose, but i feel as if the show's producers are gratuitous about it, and are just going for the cheap shocks and thrills. plus call me an ornery nerd, but i don't like a lot of the plot changes.

 

[Boaz]

Spoiler Alert regarding Seasons Three, Four, and Five. Major Spoilers! If you've not read through ADWD, then skip this post.

Kiwi, I think you're absolutely correct. But how else do you convert the book? Here are the numbers on POVs in ASOIAF, not including prologues (five) and epilogues (two)...AGOT had eight; ACOK had seven old and two new; ASOS had eight old and two new; AFFC had five old and seven new; and ADWD had ten old and four new, I think. By the end of ADWD there have been twenty-four POVs: Aeron, Areo, Arianne, Arya, Arys, Asha (Yara), Barristan, Bran, Brienne, Catelyn, Cersei, Daenerys, Davos, Eddard, Jaime, Jon Connington, Jon Snow, Melisandre, Quentyn, Samwell, Sansa, Theon, Tyrion, and Victarion. And there have been Chett, Cressen, Kevan, Merrett, Pate, Varamyr, and Will as prologue/epilogue fodder. I count thirty-one POVs, no matter how brief. At the heighth of ADWD there were twenty-one active POVs in ASOIAF (not all of them were in ADWD), and at the end of ADWD there are twenty active POVs.

I don't have any answers on how to present them all in a television show. But the producers have not cut out any POVs, in fact they added POVs. By this I mean there are HBO scenes without a book POV character. These include Luwin, Osha, Stannis, Renly, Loras, Littlefinger, Margaery, Varys, Roz, the Hound and Bronn.

Even MORE SPOILERS!!!! Really, stop reading now! The series will be ruined for you if you've not read ASOS, AFFC, and ADWD.

Kiwi, one of GRRM's themes is that military success without solid political framework is useless. We see the Young Wolf, Dany, and Theon have made major military moves while not laying any groudwork for a political resolution after their martial success. Their results speak for themselves. Robb lost his life and his kingdom. Theon lost his title, his men, his honor, his freedom, his identity, and his sanity. Dany had to marry a scheming fop and sue for peace... she was humiliated. Better to be defeated militarily and have a back up plan than to be undefeated without a plan.

Clanny, I hear you. Almost all of the sex is gratuitous, only the incest was not. Many characters are evil, I don't need sperm being wiped off a prostitute's mouth so she can immediately kiss the next customer. That's as artistic as the contents of a chamber pot.

 

[Koopa]

K, done watching.(watched 4 episodes today.)

Despite my agreement to some posters above :
-too much focus on sex and violence (I suppose it doesn't help that real life violence is far from my doorstep so sometimes it's difficult to relate to some scenes),
-the others where merely upgraded zombie/slash african medicine man in the cold
-...

i loved it.

If only because there are soo little series of this genre ever made.
I may be just me, but i get tired of watching the same old hollywood stories rehashed. That is one reason why i like Korean movies. HBO(i think) has provided me with Band of Bothers, Rome, WO2 pacific front (forgot the name) and now asoiaf. And i can only applaud them for it.

Don't get me wrong though, i don't just like it because these genres are hardly found. I did not like Spartacus. Which i myself am baffled by. I just did not like it. Couldn't get into it.

this series has a lot to offer. Not the least that the actors get to say some of the more memorable lines that GRRM wrote.

I'm no good at summarizing even my own thoughts, so i'll just adda couple of random thoughts; that Sandor (unlike his brother the mountain) was plain a awesome. Joffrey was the perfect arrogant coward as well.
If the characters portret in the films reveals something more about how GRRM sees the person (though i doubt it, since GRMM gave away creative freedom) Margaery has been most revealing.

As to Boaz, you are right.
Except for what i consider more sideplayers such as Loras, Bronn, ....
They get by almost on sheer whim. (to overexagerrate)

 

[mtzGr]

Most of my thoughts will echo what's already been said:

Season one was much better, and I am disappointed with the second.

I still think Michelle Fairley is a miscast, mostly due to her age, and how she has turned Cat into an older (bearing) character. While she's a fine actress, I don't care for her character in the show.

I do not like Dany's character anymore. I'm not sure if it is due to the writing or Emilia Clarke, but I'll blame both. She was great season one. Season two felt like ADWD. Why they decided to butcher her story I do not know, nor do I think it was justified in the final product.

Jon's character is bland, and the changes to the story, again make very little sense.

The show has been underwhelming, from the Tower of the Undying to the attack on Kings Landing.

Jaime, Tyrion, Arya, Joff, Cersei, Theon, Tywin, and Davos have all been fantastic, and have kept me interested in the show.

I don't mind what they did with Robb, since he didn't really have a story to begin with.

The surprise has been Sophie Turner as Sansa. She has become a very engaging character, and a fine actress.

I really hope season three delivers, and they stop changing the story for no apparent reason other than perhaps time constraints (which would be hard to argue). They certainly have not done it in the name of 'good television'.

 

[Needle]

I have to speak in defense of Michelle Fairley. I too thought at first that she was a little old, but then I got to thinking (dangerous I know!) Her children were all made older than the were in the books, and even though she is a Lady, she is hardly a pampered one. She lives in the harsh northern weather and has borne 5 children. She would probably look older than she is.

 

[Koopa]

I have no quarrel with the actors.I think most of them have done great.
The interaction between a couple of them was nice as well.
I was constantly looking forward to the Tywin/Arya scenes. Pure magic.

 

[Mesanna]

I agree with Needle. I was against Michelle Fairley when I first saw her, but after a few episodes, she won me over with her acting and I really like her now. And with Ned played by Sean Bean, who's is his early 50s (I think), it wouldn't have looked right to have a 30 - 35 year old actress. Robb looks early 20s, so his mother would have to look 40 at the very least.

I'm just wondering how it's going to look when they marry Margaery to Tommen. It was bad enough in the books when she was 16 and he, what, 9? But TV Margaery with TV Tommen is going to look downright paedophillic. I wonder if there may be a change of script at some point down the line, to protect the viewers' delicate sensibilities!

 

[Koopa]

Well it was a common enough occurance when some old dude married a young girl in medieval times for political advances.(the reverse must have happened as well) Hell, you need only look to the east to know that such practices still exist today.(even without any political advancement in play) And since they have for the most part kept close to to books, i see no reason why they would not marry Tommen off to Margaery. I mean it's not like they get it on.

 

[Brian G Turner]

I still think Michelle Fairley is a miscast, mostly due to her age, and how she has turned Cat into an older (bearing) character. While she's a fine actress, I don't care for her character in the show.

Ironically, I didn't care for her in the books, but do in the show.

In the books she seemed somehow more - spiteful.

 

[Needle]

I have no quarrel with the actors.I think most of them have done great.
The interaction between a couple of them was nice as well.
I was constantly looking forward to the Tywin/Arya scenes. Pure magic.

Totally agree about Tywin/Arya! It was one change I was completely happy with. Magic indeed!

 

[Ursa major]

Sean Bean (53) is five or six years older than Michelle Fairley. (I'm not entirely sure, as Wikipedia doesn't give Fairley's date of birth, only the year, 1964). Bean plays the second son, so the age gap between Brandon and Cat would have been greater by at least a year.

That, to me, sounds like a reasonable age difference, given that the parents of heirs to former kingdoms would be looking for, and thus restricted to, potential brides from either one of the other former royal houses or those of their most senior bannermen.



The biggest anomaly is Aiden Gillen: he's four years younger than Fairley, which means that when Brandon taught Littlefinger a lesson by giving him that scar, he was far from being a noble Stark, but just an armed man brutally beating up a youth at least ten years his junior.

 

[FaitLoupe]

Always best to keep away from the hype - it only sets expectations too high.

I know I should stay away from the hype, but I never learn

Does anyone have any thoughts as to where HBO is going with Margery Tyrell? Her character got way more screen time in S2 than she does in either ACoK or ASoS. I suppose they (screen writers) are just trying to build on her character as we don't get to read the rumours & assumptions & conclusions made by other characters in the book.

Though a friend of mine did make the snarky comment "Who's daughter is she?"

 

[FaitLoupe]

*snip*
The biggest anomaly is Aiden Gillen: he's four years younger than Fairley, which means that when Brandon taught Littlefinger a lesson by giving him that scar, he was far from being a noble Stark, but just an armed man brutally beating up a youth at least ten years his junior.

To me that sounds right. When reading the books Littlefinger refers to himself as very young, and foolishly naive. He talks about the age difference between he and Brandon Stark, though doesn't specifically mention ages, I was always under the impression that Brandon was a man in his mid 20's or v. early 30's, whereas Baelish was ranging from 12-16 years (though I tend to imagine him on the younger end of that spectrum).

Definitely not the picture of nobility.

 

[Tywin]

FaitLoupe, welcome to the forums!

As for where they are going with Margaery, I think there's been some speculation that they are planning on removing the character of Olenna Redwyne, and rolling her political savvy into the Margaery Character.

As for Brandon Stark being a "Noble Stark"... I think Ned was the Noble one. Brandon was the wild one, and we often seem to forget that these people live in a world dominated by physical violence. Scratch that, the Starks don't just "live" in a world dominated by physical violence, they "thrive and succeed" in that world as they have for thousands of years. These are mean men and women.

Oh, and one last thought on that topic of the ages of big bad Brandon versus poor little Petyr: If Baelish was in his mid teens, he was the same age as other folks like Barristan MF Selmy, Loras Tyrell, Jaime Lannister, etc who routinely dismembered older men during their teens.

 

[Needle]

FaitLoupe, welcome to the forums!

As for where they are going with Margaery, I think there's been some speculation that they are planning on removing the character of Olenna Redwyne, and rolling her political savvy into the Margaery Character.
.

This was the thought and may still be somewhat true, but the Queen of Thorns will be introduced next season. Can't wait to love her!