Advice for getting started

[kaufmannp]

Two words from me: Thank You...all...

...Okay now that's like three words, but really, I've just jumped onto this site within the past few days and I've been back a number of times to see what others have put out there.

Very much looking forward to making futher contributions!

 

[Brian G Turner]

I thought an editing draft just meant tweaking some stuff. Now I see the first editing draft as a major rewrite. Well, when your last writing draft was so badly written, upon reflection.

 

[Karn Maeshalanadae]

Tweaks, Brian?

As part of a word on his writing career, David Eddings said in The Rivan Codex:

"Write a million or so words. Then burn them."


That's what writing really comes down to, for a lot of people and a lot of drafts and copies. I've completely deleted pieces I was working on for months simply because if they were going in ANY direction, that direction was backwards in a train over a thousand-foot cliff above a tar pit lit on fire. Of course, I've never even written close to 100,000 words for any single draft, let alone a million, but you get my point.

 

[Anne Lyle]

Just to be contrary, I don't think the just-write-it-and-edit-when-it's-all-finished is a universal rule which will benefit everyone, so much as a technique which helps some (perhaps many) people. I know it doesn't help me, though. Editing/revising as I go along allows me to build in small increments to create a stable foundation. For me, it's like building a house of cards -- rushing it will just result in only one or two bits standing and a whole lot of cards collapsed over the table, so I've got to start again from scratch.

I have to do that in the first quarter of a book - I may rewrite it several times in order to get that firm foundation. After that, though, I have to force myself to push on, because that's the point where (in the past) I always lost steam and gave up.

I still don't fret too much about the quality of the prose, though - that's something that will improve all by itself, given practice, and the odd clumsy sentence here and there won't damage the story!

 

[Karn Maeshalanadae]

Yes, Anne, but did you ever have to use manuscript as tinder?

 

[Venusian Broon]

Just to be contrary, I don't think the just-write-it-and-edit-when-it's-all-finished is a universal rule which will benefit everyone, so much as a technique which helps some (perhaps many) people. I know it doesn't help me, though. Editing/revising as I go along allows me to build in small increments to create a stable foundation. For me, it's like building a house of cards -- rushing it will just result in only one or two bits standing and a whole lot of cards collapsed over the table, so I've got to start again from scratch.

And just to complicate things even further - but hopefully give Alien Dynasty more food for thought - although I stated I just push through the first draft and don't go back and edit, it's not from a standing start.

I always need to know where my plot and characters are going when I write, so for the example for my main WiP I put in ~15 months preparation* on building a working treatment that details the basic plot and a large electronic pile of notes describing the setting and characters. Only when I was reasonably happy that it all hung together did I start writing in anger, foundation firmly in place in my mind from this day. So in my case, I've got the plans and I've dug and set the foundations (and rapidly pushing this analogy towards breaking point) the first draft is then me putting up the walls, floors and roof. Next series (no doubt many) of drafts are fixing any problems and then putting in the interior etc...


*Writing does not pay any of the bills for me, so time is limited. I'd be able to squeeze down this sort of time considerably, perhaps to 2-3 months, if I was professional and fulltime on the writing job, or even if I had an extra 2-3 hours a day (if you finding such timescales offputting ). Unfortunately I have to do other things to pay the council tax, London electric, Mortgage etc...

 

[Anne Lyle]

Yes, Anne, but did you ever have to use manuscript as tinder?

Heh, no - but I did put my manuscript printouts in the recycling. I'm not sentimental enough to fill my house with huge piles of paper!

(I do save my plot notebooks and index cards, as they take up very little space)

 

[goldhawk]

Write a scene where the absolute worst thing can happen to your protagonist; the scene where he gets hurt the most. Shred it (or burn it). If you can't forget that scene, you have a story. Otherwise, try, try again.

 

[RcGrant]

And just to complicate things even further - but hopefully give Alien Dynasty more food for thought - although I stated I just push through the first draft and don't go back and edit, it's not from a standing start.

I always need to know where my plot and characters are going when I write, so for the example for my main WiP I put in ~15 months preparation on building a working treatment that details the basic plot and a large electronic pile of notes describing the setting and characters. Only when I was reasonably happy that it all hung together did I start writing in anger, foundation firmly in place in my mind from this day. So in my case, I've got the plans and I've dug and set the foundations (and rapidly pushing this analogy towards breaking point) the first draft is then me putting up the walls, floors and roof. Next series (no doubt many) of drafts are fixing any problems and then putting in the interior etc...

This is a very good point. I am the type of writer who spends an inordinate amount of time sitting and letting things simmer in my head. It's a huge difference to procrastinating (I've done both. lol) and try to work on another project in the meantime. So I guess I have recreated some of the scenes many times over before I've even put pen to paper.

 

[Venusian Broon]

I am the type of writer who spends an inordinate amount of time sitting and letting things simmer in my head. It's a huge difference to procrastinating..

That's what I tell myself as well

But I usually find it (oddly) unproductive to force creativity through quickly (have suffered too many 'brainstorming' sessions in various professions to trust the quick answers!)

 

[Brian G Turner]

I am the type of writer who spends an inordinate amount of time sitting and letting things simmer in my head.

I find there's nothing like a long walk or long drive to help simmer things.

 

[Phoenixthewriter]

Getting started I find works best by handling a task that doesn't deal directly with the story, at least at that moment. It let's you mess around with the world you're building without really confronting anything huge. It can also be entertaining, but it won't be until a little bit later that you finally get your main characters rolling, and at that point, you're already more comfortable with your world that it should be much easier.

And what I mean by that is maybe a side character has an issue in the market, and you expand on that. Maybe he has a token of his past he's trying to pawn off. That little blip can come back into play later, but for now, you just have a bit of narrative.

To produce anything at all is hard enough, but to produce something of quality, that's the clincher.

What's harder than getting started? What's harder than producing something of quality?

Keeping it there. You get into the hundred-two-hundred page range and I find things get muddy as heck. Gotta really take a break and get your head in the game to keep going.

 

[Karn Maeshalanadae]

What's harder than getting started? What's harder than producing something of quality?

Keeping it there. You get into the hundred-two-hundred page range and I find things get muddy as heck. Gotta really take a break and get your head in the game to keep going.

I've technically reached the 100 page mark but that was with the font Times New Roman at 16. At a basic 12 font size it shrunk down to somewhere around 56 pages or so, and it was still the worst piece of tripe that a person could ever punish their eyes with. It's not even finished and it never WILL be finished.

 

[kaufmannp]

I've technically reached the 100 page mark but that was with the font Times New Roman at 16. At a basic 12 font size it shrunk down to somewhere around 56 pages or so, and it was still the worst piece of tripe that a person could ever punish their eyes with. It's not even finished and it never WILL be finished.

Deepest fear uncovered! Unless of course there are spiders.

By the by, and I'm sure this will top someones "stupid question" list for today..

I'm working with times new roman 12 font and double-spaced. Is this an acceptable form? I've found it makes what I've written a bit easier on the eyes. You know, the whole two chapters I've written.

 

[Karn Maeshalanadae]

For your own self during the writing experience, knock yourself out. The reason I write in size 16 font is so I can easier read what I'm writing. My eyes aren't very good and I think they've been getting worse as the years go on. (And being only 26 this next Saturday, that's a depressing though.)


The point is, I think what most publishers or editors would prefer would be Times New Roman size 12 normal spaced, but I think that publishers and editors worth their salt will list their preferred specifications for submission. It's really more a question to ask Teresa Edgerton as she has experience in the editing field.



And by the way-I'm not finishing that piece because I'm choosing not to. The world it took place in is dead. Earth collided with it by way of a destabilized trade route wormhole.

 

[Phoenixthewriter]

Karn your comment had me almost in tears laughing. If I was a little more tired, I probably would have been.

As far as spacing/font etc... I read a long time ago that 12 point, double spaced, courier, was ideal. This makes each letter the same spacing and makes characters easier to determine per page.

I however write in 12pt Times New Roman, single spaced. Maybe it's for my own self gratification, that when I ever hit the double spaced button, or ever have to reformat, it will increase the number of pages. I think I'm at 147 pages, and doing the above formatting bumps it up to over 350.

Not that it's 350 pages of Brandon Sanderson, but it's still only on its first draft.

 

[Anne Lyle]

I write in all kinds of fonts, depending on my mood. I tend to switch between Optima and Palatino at the moment. Some writing software such as Scrivener will let you format your draft in one font and export it as a completely different one - and it has presets for popular manuscript formats.

However

1. This is a problem for another day, when you've actually finished something - you can always change the font when you do your edit pass.

2. Publishers and agents vary. Some still want Courier, though a lot prefer Times New Roman. Some (esp in the UK) still insist on paper submissions for the initial contact, perhaps to discourage those who aren't serious; most are happy to work electronically.

ALWAYS READ EACH AGENT'S/PUBLISHER'S GUIDELINES BEFORE SUBMITTING!

 

[Karn Maeshalanadae]

Karn your comment had me almost in tears laughing. If I was a little more tired, I probably would have been.

Then I should have saved Morcalia's demise for an episode of Tooninoot. Gosh dang it.

 

[Alien Dynasty]

Thanks for all the great adive. A major problem I have is that I just don't feel I have enough knowledge. While being fiction, my story is heavily based in history, and when I start to write part of it, I feel so ignorant and the ideas in my head sound so stupid. I'll probably start with the sci-fi part of it and do more research for the historical side.

 

[Venusian Broon]

Thanks for all the great advice. A major problem I have is that I just don't feel I have enough knowledge.

Best thing to do, and I think something that should be ingrained in all writers psyche it to ask questions, loads of them.*

When I start a project it's a bit like death by a thousand questions for me - I will go through my ideas and take them apart, tiny piece by tiny piece. Take your ideas and ask every possible question and flesh it all out. If you get to an answer that you say 'I don't know' research it or come up with answer if it's an issue that your creativity can only solve...but don't allow it to be left as unknown.** It can be about your settings, your characters, whatever. Ask why is your main character doing what he/she is doing, ask what he/she is wearing, hell if it's relevant ask what do people in your world eat for breakfast.

As for historical stuff, there's plenty of free stuff on the web to get you started plus a wealth of other info that you'll find useful to help give you further ideas for your non-historical ideas.


* It's one of those things that writer's courses recommend and I do think it's a good thing - observe and question when you're about day to day. See someone on a bus? Ask yourself why do you think they are there, where are they going - invent a fiction for them! (all in your head of course )

** You can take this process far too far, so it'll be up to you to decide when you've done enough. When you have experienced it for a 'full cycle' so to speak, you'll probably get the confidence to stop researching and start writing in earnest.