Jaime's sword hand

[garion77]

I have been thinking about the whole Briane/Jaime chapter of ADWD... How she came and got him and they disappear...

I wonder can Theros give Jaime his sword hand back? I know the red priest on Victorian ship saved his hand. I understand that its different with Jaime because his hand is completely gone but Theros was able to put Beric back together a few times.

I think GRRM did the Victorian having his hand saved for a reason. And then Briane leading Jaime right to Theros...

 

[The Imp]

I have been thinking about the whole Briane/Jaime chapter of ADWD... How she came and got him and they disappear...

I wonder can Theros give Jaime his sword hand back? I know the red priest on Victorian ship saved his hand. I understand that its different with Jaime because his hand is completely gone but Theros was able to put Beric back together a few times.

I think GRRM did the Victorian having his hand saved for a reason. And then Briane leading Jaime right to Theros...

This is a really interesting idea. The idea of a "resurrected" Jaime fighting again is VERY appealing.

 

[garion77]

This is a really interesting idea. The idea of a "resurrected" Jaime fighting again is VERY appealing.

Yes it would. I think we can agree that he will not be good enough with his left hand, giving him back his right hand would make sense.

But what would Jaime need to give up or promise to get his hand back?

A interesting theory is Jaime end up representing Margary Tyrell as her champion against Gregor...

They did say each have to pick a kingsguard to represent them... And that how the prophecy about Cersi's death come to past...

Whoever champion lose, that person is sentenced to death, correct?

 

[Tywin]

Strange coincidence, but we were just having a discussion here last night about Jaime losing his hand and how important that was to make him "grow up".

When he was full and healthy he didn't need to think about anything, he just acted and did whatever he wanted both on the battlefield and in life choices. As my friend last night pointed out "His body could cash any check that he wrote."

By losing the hand, his previous persona died. He was forced to grow up and become a man really. He started acting as a leader and as a man who keeps his promises and tries to do the right thing. And the strange thing is that he actually seems to be a more valuable asset that way. He can't carve his way through half an army personally anymore, but now he thinks things through and can outmaneuver an entire army.

I guess what I'm saying is that I don't want to see Jaime get his hand back.

 

[ArstenWhitebeard]

I guess what I'm saying is that I don't want to see Jaime get his hand back.

Me niether. I would much rather see him continue practicing with his left hand and become an adequate fighter, no longer the best, but good enough. This will make him put more focus on tactics and maybe become a great leader. Besides, now he has a Bling golden hand that he can smack people around with.

 

[Needle]

Not sure i know how I feel about the idea of Jaime getting his hand back, but I don't think it possible.

Victarions hand may be healed but it is a burned mess just the same. Beric was healed repeatedly but never fixed. His stabbed eye is gone, his skull is still caved in, etc.

 

[garion77]

I like him better without the hand also... He a much better leader without the hand and a much better person. But Jaime was kickass... I would have loved to see him cross swords with Gregor or even the hound.

I think Jaime is probably the only person who could beat undead Gregor... I really can't see anyone else other than the Hound, who I can't see coming back to KL or Arya with her faceless men tricks...

I am not sure if the whole Margery/Cersei disagreement is still going on but since Kevin is dead, I am sure all that will start up again. That's what Vary predicted.

And since we know Gregor is Cersei champion and only a kingsguard can represent Margery, could Margery choose Jaime? Could Jaime refuse her request? Or is there some kind of Kingsguard law requiring him to fight whether he want to or not if the request is from the Queen?

And if he wins, would that spell Cersei death?

Would that make him the Valonqar?

 

[Koopa]

I beg to differ. Jaime does not need his right hand back to be good in battle.All he needs from his right arm is to properly wear a shield. Which it is still capable of.Qhorin Halfhand retrained, and became even better with his left, so why can't jaime do the same. In truth he does not even need to become as good to be able to beat the same opponents, since most opponents will have little experience facing a left-handed swordsmen.
Look at tennis, see how how often players stuggle against left-handed opponents because they are not used to that different playing style.
No Jaime does not need his right arm back at all.

As for the priest, by his own admission he never paid much attention. And whilst he no doubt is able to bring people back to semi-life, i'm not sure what else( and too what extent) he can actually do. Unless offcourse he's selfteaching himself atm.

 

[Tywin]

And since we know Gregor is Cersei champion and only a kingsguard can represent Margery, could Margery choose Jaime? Could Jaime refuse her request? Or is there some kind of Kingsguard law requiring him to fight whether he want to or not if the request is from the Queen?

And if he wins, would that spell Cersei death?

Would that make him the Valonqar?

Interesting thoughts here. I think the hound will be the one to kill un-gregor though.

What if Cersei picks Jaime, Margaery picks Loras and Jaime lets himself be killed... thereby dooming his sister?

 

[Koopa]

Hate too be a party pooper, but i higly doubt Jaime will turn up on King's Landing anytime soon. Not only did he not seem to care much for Cersei plea, he has left his column to follow The Beauty to Catelyn and her not-so-merry men.

I'm pretty certain that Cersei is picking Ungregor, and even more certain that he'll be victorious. It's too soon for cersei to fall. That will come somewhat later in the book. I actually think it more likely that Margaery and her champion are going to fall, thus ending whatever peace there could have been between the Lion and The Flower.

Btw, Is there a rule that dictates two sides can't choice the same champion, surely they can choose the same champion. They are facing separate trials after all.

 

[garion77]

Hate too be a party pooper, but i higly doubt Jaime will turn up on King's Landing anytime soon. Not only did he not seem to care much for Cersei plea, he has left his column to follow The Beauty to Catelyn and her not-so-merry men.

I'm pretty certain that Cersei is picking Ungregor, and even more certain that he'll be victorious. It's too soon for cersei to fall. That will come somewhat later in the book. I actually think it more likely that Margaery and her champion are going to fall, thus ending whatever peace there could have been between the Lion and The Flower.

Btw, Is there a rule that dictates two sides can't choice the same champion, surely they can choose the same champion. They are facing separate trials after all.

I think Cersei and Margaery champions will end up facing each other... We know Cersei got Gregor... And Margaery wanted Garland but he isn't kingsguard. And Loras is wounded... Jaime is the only logical choice I see for Margaery... All the rest of the Kingsguard is old or weak knights pick by Cersei...

If Margaery is smart, and she seem very smart to me from what I read about her, she will pick Jaime. Not only will Jaime be back in time to KL, I think he will be back with a brand new hand. A parting gift from Cat to Cersei... Her final revenge...

And Margaery will not fall to Cersei... I bet the Tyrells will be the first to follow Dany when she return just like they followed her father... The Tyrells owe their house to the Targaryens. I think the Flowers were the original rulers of Highgarden...

 

[Koopa]

If i recall correctly they are descendants of Garth greenhand (from the female side?). The Gardeners (original rulers i think) intermarrid often with other houses, so a lot of other houses had in truth a better claim or so. They where given the command by Aegon because the Tyrells where the stewards of Higharden. So all they had to do was kneel.

That is like House Poole getting Winterfell and the dominion of the north.
Which is kinda ridiculous, but there you have it.

I stay with my earlier post though when it comes to my view on things. However i should clarify that although i think it'd be awesome if GRRM makes Margaery lose, i actually think it most likel that both of them win their trials.

 

[garion77]

If i recall correctly they are descendants of Garth greenhand (from the female side?). The Gardeners (original rulers i think) intermarrid often with other houses, so a lot of other houses had in truth a better claim or so. They where given the command by Aegon because the Tyrells where the stewards of Higharden. So all they had to do was kneel.

That is like House Poole getting Winterfell and the dominion of the north.
Which is kinda ridiculous, but there you have it.

I stay with my earlier post though when it comes to my view on things. However i should clarify that although i think it'd be awesome if GRRM makes Margaery lose, i actually think it most likel that both of them win their trials.

So who do you think Margaery will choose to fight for her? Jaime is the only logical choice. It's really isn't anymore Kingsguards left worth picking. Even Jaime recognized that... Unless Loras isn't as hurt as they made him seem...

I think with Kevin dead, Margaery and Cersei is getting ready to start a big war against each other...

And I think Jaime and unGregor will pay a big part in who live and who die...

 

[Koopa]

I'm thinking Dragonstone hasn't fallen, and Loras is just fine.
My second choice would be ser Balon Swann, but he is away in Dorne.
Thus i land on ser Mandon Moore. Whom by all accounts is said to be a dangerous man.
And it's not like the fate has a lot of famous knights to throw at him.

 

[ArstenWhitebeard]

And since we know Gregor is Cersei champion and only a kingsguard can represent Margery, could Margery choose Jaime? Could Jaime refuse her request? Or is there some kind of Kingsguard law requiring him to fight whether he want to or not if the request is from the Queen?

And if he wins, would that spell Cersei death?

Would that make him the Valonqar?

I personally really like this theory, I already thought that Jaime, not Tyrion, will end up being the Valonqar, and this way would be fitting, especially if you (like I) think that Margeary fits the roll of the younger and more beautiful Queen who will take "all that she holds dear" Which may include Jaime.

As for the idea that Jaime won't get back in time, I don't recall if there was a set date for the trial to take place. It could be that the trial is postponed untill Meargeries champion, Weather it be Jaime or Loras or even the hound, is able to make it to Kings Landing. I wouldn't put it past GRRM to drag it out untill the end of the next book, which leaves 1 (or 2) books left to finnish up the series and deal with the reall matter at hand, that being the war against the Others. I don't think it is all too soon for cersei to be removed, especially if it doesn't happen untill the last half of the next book, with only 1 book left.

Also, I was under the impression that the queens champions had to fight each other, therefore could not be the same person. they are trying to determine which is innocent. Whoever loses, dies and was guilty, the winner lives and was innocent.

 

[Needle]

Also, I was under the impression that the queens champions had to fight each other, therefore could not be the same person. they are trying to determine which is innocent. Whoever loses, dies and was guilty, the winner lives and was innocent.

I don't think there is any reason for the champions to fight each other. Each Queen is on trial, by the church, for her own crimes. One's guilt or innocence does not have any bearing on the other. Also, I can certainly be wrong but I can not remember that Margeary is even seeking a champion. She is set to be tried but it seems it is just a trial not a trial by champion.

 

[ArstenWhitebeard]

That is quite possible. I was under the impression that because they had both made contradictory allegations about the other that their champions would have to figh each other. I could certainly be wrong though.

 

[Needle]

As far as I can remember Cersei is to be tried for killing the last High Septon (via I think Mandon Moore) and possiblly for killing Robert plus fornicating. Margeary is still to be tried for Adultery because the Blue Bard is still singing the song Quyburn taught him! Plus profaning the Maidens ritual.

 

[#Requin]

I'm currently re-reading 10 pages a day. So when i'll get there i'll try and clear the trials up

 

[garion77]

That is quite possible. I was under the impression that because they had both made contradictory allegations about the other that their champions would have to figh each other. I could certainly be wrong though.

I was also under the impression that the two champions had to fight each other? That's why Margaery asked for Garland her brother. And when they told her she had to get a Kingsguard, she made a statement about only old men left. Cersei had wanted the Kingsguard that the Faith made confess and was mad when they said she couldn't use him for her trials.

And why would the faith have champions for the trials anyway? It make more sense since they both accused each other of crimes, that their champions fight to prove who is innocent against one another. The faith wouldn't give a champion because the faith isn't on trial...

It would be fitting if Jaime defeat UnGregor and sentence Cersei to death. And the queen younger and more beautiful would take everything she hold dear which is Jaime and her life.

And it's very strange that GRRM sent the only other logical choice for Margaery's champion (Swann) to Dorne... He wouldn't be back anytime soon that if he come back at all...