Maps, appendices, cast lists and so on

[thaddeus6th]

I was wondering how people (both from a reading and writing perspective) felt about the extras that are often put into fantasy books and whether (and, if so, how much) they added.

I used to love maps, and still quite like them, but I really don't mind nowadays if they're missing. I've got a mental picture of the Circle of the World (the world of Joe Abercrombie's First Law Trilogy) now, and if he actually put in an official map I might be a bit irked if it didn't tally with mine

However, one criticism I had for Bane of Souls is the lack of a map. That was a conscious choice on my part, as it takes place almost entirely in one city and geography doesn't play a particularly significant role in the story. My WIP has my protagonist trekking across a frozen country, so I'm intending to put a map in that.

I think appendices can add to books, if there's a point or extra interest. In the version of LotR I've got there's some stuff on the elven language and I think a timeline about the earlier ages, which I liked enough to end up getting The Silmarillion.

One that I added was the rules to a dice game called Meier, just because I like the game and thought it might be interesting for readers.

I can take or leave cast lists, but I've got to say that in Dragonfly Falling (Shadows of the Apt book 2) I found it really useful to just scan the lists of characters and organisations and so on to refamiliarise myself with the world. I started it a few days ago but it's been some months since I read Empire in Black and Gold. I'm pretty absent-minded when it comes to character names and it was very helpful.


So, what do other people think? What do you like in the books you read and what do you add in the books you write?

 

[psychotick]

Hi,

Maps I can take or leave. They don't do much for me. But I do like the beastiaries in some works as they help to complete my mental picture of some of the mythical beasts in stories. As long as the artwork is good.

Cheers, Greg.

 

[MemoryTale]

I'm not too bothered about maps, but I did see them put to good use in Edding's Belgarath The Sorcerer. As the action happened over about five thousand years or so, the maps changed to reflect what was happening with the world at the time, which I thought was a neat touch.

I have mixed views on appendices. On the one hand, they're useful because you may have forgotten what something is, so you can just flip to that instead of trying to find the explanation in the text.
However, it irks me when they're used instead of just telling us in the prose what something is, because it means when we're told about Krellnik meeting with the Gerogneog, we have to flip to the back of the book to find that the Gerogneog are leaders of the Morbinmorbin, then flip further to learn that the Morbinmorbin are a neutral tribal people, who are currently leaning toward breaking that neutrality to side with the Etcnation, who according to the appendices are guardians of the Sword of Plotrelevence.

 

[Anne Lyle]

I think they were fashionable for a long time, mainly because Tolkien had one, but folks have realised that for the most part the reader can manage without one. The writer may need one, of course, to avoid continuity errors, but that's a whole different matter...

 

[chopper]

damn those Morbinmorbin.

maps, i tend to like, because you can see how the author's mind works (trust me, I'm not making this up - if the world looks really lived in, then you know the author's taken a hell of a lot of time & effort creating it. conversely, a land that is square because that is the shape of the page turns me off like bad teeth). appendices, glossaries, cast lists - depends on who you are, what you're writing etc - the family trees add to GRRM's epicosity, and are desperately needed when you're hip-deep in Erikson, but i'd still say they're more a luxury than a neccessity.

 

[Montero]

I'm a little put off by cast lists, especially ones that are several pages long. Makes me think I will be struggling to remember who's who as I read the story, otherwise why else is it there.

 

[James Coote]

If it were a sci-fi book, you could make a wiki on your website, and just have a QR code that links to it as your appendix.

I like maps, not as a reference, but simply to look at and imagine other side stories. The rest I don't really care for as a reader. I think all the 'extras' are what delights the hardcore fans of your universe, the people who get totally immersed in a created world and for whom it is like their hobby or passion

 

[TheDustyZebra]

I don't generally care for any of those things in a book. I don't think three-dimensionally very well, so a map doesn't translate into a landscape in my head unless I've actually been there and seen it. I would never have made it through "A Clockwork Orange" without the glossary, but I usually just skim through those things if I look at them at all. These days, if I had to flip back and forth, looking up the Morbinmorbins or any of the Clockwork Orange words, I would just toss the book and find a new one.

 

[James Coote]

The UK edition didn't have a glossary. I heard somewhere that the author didn't want one either, but the publishers insisted on it for a US audience.

I read it when I was still in high school, and after the first couple of chapters, you start to pick up the meanings from the context. It wasn't till I went to Russia years later that I realised they weren't made up words

 

[alchemist]

I don't really like any of them. Sure, they might help me understand the world a little, but if it's provided, I'm often distracted by flipping back and forth from the text to the map/glossary/dramatis personae.

Anyway, if the writer isn't able to adequately convey the geography, terminology or characters in the text, they're not doing their job, IMO. If it adds to the text, fine. If it's deemed necessary by the author, that's trouble.

 

[Pyan]

Maps, yes, love them. Appendices are fine too, especially if they fill in a backstory that would have been too much of an infodump if the contents had been in the main story. Glossaries are harmless enough, though most of them seem to be variations on the theme of Call a Rabbit a "Smeerp"*

The one I never read is the "Guide to Pronunciation". I won't be reading it aloud anyway, and if I want to pronounce, say, "Sinead" as "Sin-ee-ad" or "Sin-aid" in my head, why not?



*Warning! TVTropes alert!

 

[thaddeus6th]

That's interesting. I quite like pronunciation guides, if they're necessary (not fantasy exactly, but it was useful getting Welsh pronunciations for the Warlord Chronicles). That said, I dislike the occasional fantasy flaw of being 'original' by giving people and places bloody ridiculous names (Thyrzzjqll instead of Thaddeus, for example).

 

[Anne Lyle]

The one I never read is the "Guide to Pronunciation". I won't be reading it aloud anyway, and if I want to pronounce, say, "Sinead" as "Sin-ee-ad" or "Sin-aid" in my head, why not?

I deliberately designed my conlangs to be reasonably transparent to an English-speaking reader. Must have worked, because I didn't provide a pronunciation guide for the audiobook and the narrator got it almost perfect!

 

[mithril]

Maps - I like poring over them if I've become a fan of the world.. Another scenario where I might look for a map would be if I start getting confused about where each place was in relation to everything else (and if not being sure of the geographical placements was getting irksome) For everything else, I don't mind either way.

Glossaries - Ideally a novel should not need a glossary. According to me, if it's relevant to the story, it should have been made sufficiently clear in story itself. However I have found it useful while reading the 2nd or 3rd part of a series. Sometimes I don't exactly recall some particular detail that was mentioned in earlier parts, and then having a glossary is useful.

Geneology/Family trees - Irksome usually. Useful only in cases that family politics and relations form an important part of the story. For ex if the story mentions 2nd cousins and aunt's husband's sister-in-law or something like that

Pronunciation guide - I used to feel obliged to go through that if one was provided. However in most cases, I'd still persist in mentally pronouncing the words my way instead of the author's.. so I've given up

Like bestiaries...

 

[Mouse]

I don't really like any of them. Sure, they might help me understand the world a little, but if it's provided, I'm often distracted by flipping back and forth from the text to the map/glossary/dramatis personae.

Anyway, if the writer isn't able to adequately convey the geography, terminology or characters in the text, they're not doing their job, IMO. If it adds to the text, fine. If it's deemed necessary by the author, that's trouble.

This, exactly. Especially the second para.

I did have a (teeny) pronunciation guide in my first YA book, but I had a character called Saoirse. I know alc and springs'll know how to pronounce that, but my dippy English friends didn't have a clue, so I put it in.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

It's a lovely name. (Sor-scha) is my nearest approximation to it. (Alc prob. knows the trad. pronounciation better, though, mine's the harsh nothern lingo.)

Can't be bothered with maps, and cast lists made me shudder. I can just about deal with a dramatis personnae of about ten. I do, though, pay tribute to those with enough attention to detail to produce them.

 

[deaconllq]

All of these things remind me of the old adage concerning those who hate what is being shown on television. Simply turn the damn thing off! If you like maps, glossaries and appendices, then use them. If not, ignore the back of the book. I don't consider a midbook image of the land the characters are traveling through as an obtrusive interruption to the text. If I don't feel like stopping for a look, I read on.

I enjoy maps especially when the text concerns battles and wars. The maps help orient the reader more easily and often add some sense to what the characters are planning strategically.

Glossaries are usually only needed by authors who build massive worlds. The more characters the more potential for confusion. If a reader puts a book down for whatever reason, its not a bad idea to offer an assist to your paying customer when she returns. Once they are back in the flow, they may not need the crutch you offered, but until then, why not help out? (Also, if you have written a series a glossary is a must. Any significant length of time between release dates requires that you assist your reader/customer.)

 

[TheDustyZebra]

Anybody see the news report recently about e-readers sending information about reading habits back to the publishers? That'll tell the publishers in a hurry whether anybody bothers with the maps and appendices or not!

 

[Anne Lyle]

The problem with ebooks is that flipping back and forth between the chapter you are reading and the map is much more fiddly - and a nice piece of artwork may not display well on a low-res eInk screen. I'm pretty sure I haven't seen any maps in ebooks, so they may save them for the premium hardback editions in future...

 

[thaddeus6th]

I didn't see that, DustyZebra.

That's a good point, Anne. For the next book (for which I'm doing a map) I'm thinking of having a slightly bigger and nicer one online, as the one in the book will need to be easy to make out on an eReader, rather limiting its size and fanciness.