Maps, appendices, cast lists and so on

I put a glossary into A Dark Sacrifice because I thought there were things that some readers -- the readers who like that sort of thing -- might like to know. These were things in no way essential, and working them into the story would have brought the pace to a crawl, but they were there at the back of the book for those who would be entertained by them.

I've used a Dramatis Personae where it fit the style and (equivalent) period of the story. So far that's been once. I tried to make it amusing as well as informative.

So if the question is meant to ask if the presence of one or more of these things actually detracts from the experience of a book for some people, I'm with deaconllq. Those who don't like them should feel free to ignore them.

If the question is whether they enhance our experience (as in "should I make an effort to put these in"), I really want the maps. No matter how well the writer has explained it, I still have trouble picturing where places are in relationship to each other. I hate when it is important to know these things and there is not a map to help people like me. (But the art department at HC didn't want to be bothered with mine for Rune of Unmaking books, so I had to be satisfied with posting it online.)
 
The information in the narrative should include all the reader needs to follow the story, including relevant geographical information. The maps should be in addition to this:
  • providing something that readers who like maps (such as me) might like to see;
  • giving more geographical context to the narrative.
Given this, the only problem I can see with having one or more maps in a book is where it convinces an author to omit information from the narrative that should be in there.

(This also applies, I believe, to glossaries and the like: they're there to provide something extra, but only for those that want it.)
 
It is so much better when you can immerse yourself into the alternate word with the additions. I personally love it when there are extras which fill in gaps in knowledge which are restrained by the plot. One can only explain so much before diverting from the story. The little extras like a spell dictionary lets the reader form their own plans and engage even more in the story.
 
Personally I like the extras. Are they strictly necessary? For most books I would say no. For massive epics and extremely long and and involved series then yes if only because of the length between publishing and to assist the average reader. I consider things like maps, appendix's and character lists and the like on par with DVD extra's. I can enjoy the movie just fine without them but I always enjoy it just a little bit better when they are included.

Also I am visually inclined I Love maps!
 
Sorry to veer off topic for a moment but ....

Teresa,

I have visited but not participated in the forums too much in the last few years. I dove into writing, working and raising a family. It was all I could do to manage those three things without the addition of dutifully following and responding to multiple threads on this and other wonderful sites.

However, a few years back I submitted an early version of my work for critique. You were gracious, insightful and encouraging. Your response, both its suggestions and the spirit in which it was given, has remained with me to this day. Thank you.

Dan McHugh
 
I've always loved having maps. As for dramatis personae, the older I get the more I appreciate it. Anyone else over 50 find that to be the case? I just finished Hilary Mantel's "Bring up the Bodies." When it comes to the history of the royals I need all the help I can get. And that goes double for another planet.

How could anyone read George Martin without maps and cast of characters? In fact I thought the maps were not very well drawn in Game of Thrones Etc and found it frustrating that there wasn't an inclusive map of the "world."

Am I correct in remembering that my original copy of Winnie the Pooh had a map of the Hundred Acre Wood and everyone's homes on the endpapers? I'm sure I studied that very carefully and it was before I could even read. Sad to say I don't think I have that book any more.
 
I've read both "A Game of Thrones" and "A Clash of Kings" without referring to the dramatis personae and I am, well, old enough to need bifocals, put it that way :)

It may have helped that I watched season 1 of the TV series in between the books, so I had a clear idea of the map and the principal characters...
 
Welcome to the site, Leonsdaughter and Icyphoenix.

Leonsdaughter, I think you're right. I'm pretty sure I had a hardback of Winnie the Pooh with just such a map.

It's also not just over 50s. I've found that whilst I can quite easily recall obscure information at will I'm an absolutely duffer at names, and I'm not yet 30. I even forgot the name of one of the most important characters in my own book, briefly!

It's swings and roundabouts, though. I used to spend ages trying to come up with place and character names, but I've found it easier in recent years. Quite happy with the names Geldfels and Kemelheim.

I think the point made above about having a character list for a series makes good sense. It's very easy to forget secondary characters, or relationships between characters, if the books are released a year or more apart.
 
I'll glance at a map -- I dislike the square ones that appear to have been drawn in a spare five minutes with 'Swamp of Despair' and 'Mountains of Doom' or equivalent. I quite like the intricate ones, but only as pictures. I don't use them because I don't think very visually and I'm not really worried about how things connect up, just about what happens to the characters while things do and I'll happily trust the author on that.

Character lists etc. I won't read. I'd rather read the first book in a series again than look at a character list (is that a bit extreme? I blame Russian novels with their multiple, confusing characters with seven names each). The same with other extras -- the only ones I've ever read are Tolkien's.

The only harm I can see in them, though, is that in a printed book they can make you think there's a lot more story left than there is. That's also true of including the first chapter of the next book -- I get quite disappointed when I realise that the lesiurely tying up of ends I was anticipating with the characters I like is actually half a page and the rest of the book is a whole lot of different stuff.
 
Hex said:
The only harm I can see in them, though, is that in a printed book they can make you think there's a lot more story left than there is.
Click to expand...

I kinda like that aspect of the extras, it allows you to visualise the other side of the story. Might just be me though because I like imagining my own character in the story world.
 
I assume Hex was thinking in terms of number of pages, such as when you can see you have a hundred pages left, and pace your expectations accordingly, but then the last seventy turn out to be family trees or next-book previews and whatnot. I've experienced that disappointment myself.
 
Oh! I suppose so. It is pretty depressing getting to the end of the story and still expecting more.
 
Earlier I stated I was all for them as long as the reader chose to use them.

A caveat: Once I read a somewhat complicated book (title escapes me now probably due to the fact I was not impressed). In the glossary, which I was required to reference due to the strangely similar naming of completely disparate characters, the author included facts concerning the characters that had not yet been revealed.

Ex: Bob: A druid from Magicland. Bob was killed by Fred the traitor in the 3rd Magicland war.

In this case, Bob was not dead yet in my reading. We had no clue Fred existed, nor did we know he would be so darn treacherous. Additionally, the reader was currently witnessing the 2nd Magicland war.

Glossaries are tricky things. What they reveal can damage the suspense and drama of the works they are supposed to support.
 
If you pace yourself or find you have expectations due to what seems like a lot of pages left there's a simple solution. Before settling into a book just check and see what extras are available at the back. Doesn't mean you have to read them first.

The lesson I learned last year about unpleasant surprises: it helps to know that the book you are reading is the first in a planned series. When I read Justin Cronin's The Passage I had absolutely no idea that just about every story line in the book was going to end up a cliffhanger. I had to make a pretty serious adjustment upon reaching the last page. I assume I was the last person to know this about The Passage, despite the fact that I read it shortly after it came out.
 
Hex said:
That's also true of including the first chapter of the next book -- I get quite disappointed when I realise that the lesiurely tying up of ends I was anticipating with the characters I like is actually half a page and the rest of the book is a whole lot of different stuff.
Click to expand...

I agree, I hate that - especially when the characters set off on something entirely unrelated to the story that I'm just finishing.

I try to remember to take a quick flick at the end and put a bookmark or a slip of paper at the real end of the book, then adjust my expectations of the length to that instead of the back cover. The problem with that is if I forget - then it's doubly annoying when the story ends thirty pages in...
 
HareBrain said:
t then the last seventy turn out to be family trees or next-book previews and whatnot. I've experienced that disappointment myself.
Click to expand...

Worst of all is when the "whatnot" turns out to be previews for a string of unrelated books by other writers -- books I have no interest in at all. Then I feel really cheated.
 
I never look at cast lists - in fact if the book starts with a very long one, it puts me off buying it. I rely on the writer to introduce them in such a way that they stay with me, without needing a reference tool. Don't mind maps, but I like a good artistic one, if you must. A lot of them nowadays seem to be 'caricature' maps, if you know what I mean.
 
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