Safehold series

[Parson]

Probably should have posted here earlier. Done with "Midst Toil and Tribulation" and it did indeed end better that it began. But having said that, I would posit that this series is sliding downhill. This was another book that seems to be working up to something, which we have yet to see.

It's time to strike at the temple and the lurker!!

---- I am also confused as to why there hasn't been a space strike against the steam power? I thought that was expressly forbidden in the "Bible" of Safehold?

 

[Timba]

Probably should have posted here earlier. Done with "Midst Toil and Tribulation" and it did indeed end better that it began. But having said that, I would posit that this series is sliding downhill. This was another book that seems to be working up to something, which we have yet to see.

It's time to strike at the temple and the lurker!!

---- I am also confused as to why there hasn't been a space strike against the steam power? I thought that was expressly forbidden in the "Bible" of Safehold?

I thought steam power was actually permitted. It almost seems as if electricity is the line that must not be passed.

I too am ready for a strike at the temple, or at least an incursion with remotes or sniper fire to drop a few obscene church officials.

I am not bothered by the pacing, yes faster might be more enjoyable but part of my enjoyment of Weber comes from the deliciousness of the build in my anticipation.

 

[Narzog]

I feel like I might be part of a minority here, But I actually enjoyed the pace of his latest work. I've always loved the human aspect of this, Faith/King and county and what not, and I for one have looked forward to this union for 2 great nations for sometime. At first, I was bothered by the ironclads. I felt like they were a heavy handed way to skip out on the whole "Tiptoe the line of proscriptions". But the more I thought about it, the more I started to enjoy the though of people with 0 experience with the technology watching them steam towards them. I didn't really see this book as a filler, It established the front line in repelling the Church's first major land thrust. The first time marines see combat vs overwhelming numbers, commanded by people who have some idea what they're doing. I loved it in almost all aspects. The return of a lost hero (I have a major softspot in my heart for the loyal spymaster.) and the issues of mortality that comes with it. Merlins raid, and his reaction to doing what must be done. It brought us back to his "human" side when all we'd seen was the mysterious aloof sejin. I just feel like it got us back into what Weber's always done best, making a character you feel like you know and showing us what he feels and why. I know someone mentioned he prefers space to sea, and I just wanted to throw my 2 cents in. I feel like it's more real on sailing ships. I guess because the terms are things I picture, I know what trimming various sails does, while as in space, 420 gravities just sounds like it should be heavy not fast. I enjoy both, especially the large space engagements, but the HH series has always people about the people. I bond with characters, more so then I probably should and I'm unashamed to admit I cried my eyes out in fields of dishonor. (Not sure exactly which one had her lovers death in it, but you get my point.) It's the same reason the Fury's series has always been close to my heart. I just like the idea of a brutal wrong done to a character I love, and their quest for justice.

 

[Timba]

You are not alone Narzog, in fact you did a fine job of describing much of what I feel about Weber's writing also. I do prefer the space stories much like Parson but that is probably because it is hard to have a real feel for the sea when you have spent your life in Minnesota so it does not really add anything for me but I understand your point. Anyone with sailing experience would probably say the same.
I also love his characters and have always thought that a good story without good characters was nothing much to be satisfied with but good characters with even a so-so story is usually pretty enjoyable for me. With Weber I get great characters and at worst a good story, sometimes a great one. Sheer bliss.

 

[Parson]

I feel like I might be part of a minority here, But I actually enjoyed the pace of his latest work. I've always loved the human aspect of this, Faith/King and county and what not, and I for one have looked forward to this union for 2 great nations for sometime. At first, I was bothered by the ironclads. I felt like they were a heavy handed way to skip out on the whole "Tiptoe the line of proscriptions". But the more I thought about it, the more I started to enjoy the though of people with 0 experience with the technology watching them steam towards them. I didn't really see this book as a filler, It established the front line in repelling the Church's first major land thrust. The first time marines see combat vs overwhelming numbers, commanded by people who have some idea what they're doing. I loved it in almost all aspects. The return of a lost hero (I have a major softspot in my heart for the loyal spymaster.) and the issues of mortality that comes with it. Merlins raid, and his reaction to doing what must be done. It brought us back to his "human" side when all we'd seen was the mysterious aloof sejin. I just feel like it got us back into what Weber's always done best, making a character you feel like you know and showing us what he feels and why. I know someone mentioned he prefers space to sea, and I just wanted to throw my 2 cents in. I feel like it's more real on sailing ships. I guess because the terms are things I picture, I know what trimming various sails does, while as in space, 420 gravities just sounds like it should be heavy not fast. I enjoy both, especially the large space engagements, but the HH series has always people about the people. I bond with characters, more so then I probably should and I'm unashamed to admit I cried my eyes out in fields of dishonor. (Not sure exactly which one had her lovers death in it, but you get my point.) It's the same reason the Fury's series has always been close to my heart. I just like the idea of a brutal wrong done to a character I love, and their quest for justice.

Hey, Narzog welcome!!!

We can always use a few more Weber aficionados around here. I agree with what Timba said about the ocean going thing. I live in Iowa and probably get to see the ocean once a decade or so. I have never been on a sailing ship, so although truly more far fetched sailing along at 450 gravities I understand about as well as running up the foresail.

Vertigo and I (but especially me) are the ones who keep hoping that the pace of these will pick up and I especially want the combat moved to space. I like it better when humans have found a way to get along.

As a Parson I realize that's about as likely as warp drive, but that's my fondest hope. One of the things that I really like about the Safehold series is that it takes seriously both the good and the unspeakable evil that is possible in the name of God. .... Even if he is Langhorne.

 

[Timba]

Hey, Narzog welcome!!!

We can always use a few more Weber aficionados around here. I agree with what Timba said about the ocean going thing. I live in Iowa and probably get to see the ocean once a decade or so. I have never been on a sailing ship, so although truly more far fetched sailing along at 450 gravities I understand about as well as running up the foresail.

Vertigo and I (but especially me) are the ones who keep hoping that the pace of these will pick up and I especially want the combat moved to space. I like it better when humans have found a way to get along.

As a Parson I realize that's about as likely as warp drive, but that's my fondest hope. One of the things that I really like about the Safehold series is that it takes seriously both the good and the unspeakable evil that is possible in the name of God. .... Even if he is Langhorne.

Parson, I think you make a really good point about the whole good/evil thing and I think that is one of the things that attracks me also. I am ready to get back to space and do a little alien butt kicking also but not until the Church of Charis brings back decency to religion throughout Safehold and perhaps somebody forces Clynton into permanent retirement, I would settle for a little body work for him with a pike though.

 

[Narzog]

Trust me I plan on sticking around here quite a while As someone who enjoys discussing books and as has a decided lack of people to do it with, It's good to find places like this.

Honestly, Combat has never added things for me, in this series or the HH books. I'm not quite sure why, I guess it's just a part of me being all about the characters. I bond really hard with characters, and it's one of the reason I love the HH books. He know's how to kill characters without me feeling robbed. All of the series I end up enjoying are the superlong, tons of character, and detailed worlds kinda books. David Weber and Robert Jordan (Rest in peace) have always been my favorites purely based on characters and world creation skills. I can't express how excited and happy I was when he brought back one of my all time favorite Minor major characters. (Not sure exactly how to classify my friend the prince.)

The great moral issues of the Safehold books has always been what stands out about it in my mind. Maikel Staynair and his... goodness just stand out to me. Every time I see him interact with someone, Especially Hektor's daughter (Sorry names are a definite weakness in my memory department), it just strikes home how startling different the leadership of these two sides are.

I love the process of introducing members into the circle. The people they all know and love, but because of faith can not be included. It's just such a striking detail that adds so much. I guess what I'm saying is, I've always liked how well Weber crafts the themes and over arcing plot by weaving in little things that you don't even always notice.

 

[Timba]

I was also tickled to see the prince return, I really like his character and it was an ingenious idea to bring him back that way.

To be honest I am not sure why I enjoy battle scenes as much as I do. My stint in the Army removed all my gung ho John Wayne nonsense and somehow destroyed my love of guns, I do not even hunt anymore which I did a great deal of as a young fellow, and yet a good battle scene (Weber's are some of the best) stirs me. Perhaps I simply have not yet given up the idea that the bad guy should get his due even though after nearly 63 years on the planet (birthday this Thursday) I certainly have ample evidence that it hardly ever works out that way. Whatever it is I cannot deny I really enjoy a good battle scene.

"I guess what I'm saying is, I've always liked how well Weber crafts the themes and over arcing plot by weaving in little things that you don't even always notice." I agree totally.

 

[Parson]

Timba, you really are an old geezer. I turn a spritely 62 on 12/5. I have hunted seldom, but do own a couple of guns. I also cannot understand why I like the battle scenes so much either. Perhaps its because so much of my life has to be so tightly controlled. A pastor's job is a lifestyle job and everyone keeps their eye on you lest you do something wrong. It would be great to just take care of business in a final kind of way. --- I know war doesn't work that way; but hey, a guy can fantasize can't he?

 

[Timba]

Yes, well, as someone who has been enjoying the spritely age of 62 for nearly a year now I gotta tell you there is more than a little propaganda built into that spritely thing.

It would in fact be great if you could "take care of business in a final kind of way" by simply blowing the other side up. The problem as I am sure we both really know is that nature abhors a vacuum and somebody will step up to fill that role in the blink of an eye. It is a solution that isn't, sad that the species as a whole does not yet seem to grasp that.

 

[Narzog]

Our topic has turned quite deep, As the relative youngster of the group I find it intresting that I'm by far the least interested in the guts, guns, and glory. Ahh well, to each is own as the story goes and lucky Weber seems to give us our fill of each.

 

[Vertigo]

It's not necessarily guns and glory I'm after, and to be fair I'm still a book or two behind you guys, so maybe A Mighty Fortress is an exception. However what gets me is how much of that book is made up of long conversations with absolutely nothing going on apart from the conversation. An enormous part of it was really nothing but info-dumping.

When I talk about a lack of action, I'm not referring to battles necessarily; I'm talking about any action beyond two (or more) people sitting down and talking. I really do feel Weber is doing too much of that these days and at the expense of less things happening. Stuff still happens but he seems to prefer reporting those events through conversation rather than showing them happening.

A good example would be Angelique's (I can't remember Weber's spelling of it) departure from Zion. We saw some of the preparations and then it was done and they were away. The only comment we get is Merlin's surprise that it had all gone so smoothly.

I think what really gets me is that this is so different from his earlier works. Armageddon Reef, for example, was packed with action and a good variety of action; not just all fighting type action.