Happy or not happy endings ... thoughts?

[Luiglin]

As the title says what are peoples thoughts about how stories should end. I deliberately not used not happy, rather than sad as that encompasses other negative endings.

Whilst writing and reading fantasy based stuff I must admit to sometimes getting fed up at the end where all is right in the world and they ride off into the proverbial sunset.

It's certainly not realistic. So while I understand the argument its fantasy and therefore not meant to be realistic I also want the realism there.

Would this be too much for the genre?

 

[allmywires]

If I'm invested in characters, and they've gone on a journey and deserve a second chance/ a happy ending, I'm all for a happy ending (not the school of GRRM, where you die regardless!). On the other hand, if a character is irredeemable, or there is no way they can survive past the ultimate climax of the book, no matter how much I love reading about them, I accept that's what has to happen.

Ultimately I want an ending that's real. I wanted Harry to die in Harry Potter - seemed like the natural conclusion of the story to me, he sacrificed himself to rid the world of Voldemort. In fact, just an ending where he was suffering from all the crap he was put through during his teenage years would have sufficed, not the cotton-candy sweet epilogue we got. *vomit*

I agree, it's odd we're talking about realism in fantasy. But I think fantasy needs to be dragged kicking and screaming into the modern age. Starting with a bit more realism!

 

[Mouse]

I like happy endings. I love tragic endings. I like to feel something at the end of a story, tragedy just happens to bring out stronger emotions.

 

[Kylara]

I wish more people died at the end and the world fell into ruin. But that is just me. I get angry at stories that could've ended differently but conformed and made them happy...avoid clichés and irritating endings (Cough Canavan Cough)

Think about the possible outcomes I think, and go with what seems to fit, rather than what seems best for the characters/readers emotions. If someone has a fatal wound, let them die, don't just 'magically' have them get better and live happily ever after...

More not happy endings, they are refreshing (I remember a YA Darren Shan horror where the MC dies at the end. It was glorious to have it happen like that, it fit so well...I do believe it was Bec)

Whichever fulfils the story I suppose, not the happy ever after trope...

Where would Lear be if they didn't all (fine nearly all) die?

 

[allmywires]

I love tragic endings.

Ha, as soon as I saw this thread I knew you'd say that!

Misery guts!

 

[Mouse]

Ha, as soon as I saw this thread I knew you'd say that!

Misery guts!

I knew you'd know I'd say that.

 

[Luiglin]

I've always enjoyed David Gemmil for this sort of realism. More so having spoke to him at a book signing years back when he asked me why I read his books. My reply was 'cause you're not afraid to kill characters off. He agreed and said it frustrated him when he read thrillers knowing that the hero would survive and save the day.

The problem is that apart from him, Stephen R Donaldson and more recently Joe Abercrombie I can't think of any other authors writing these sort of books.

My current WIP is based on a hopeless situation. I've tried to keep the suspense in the situation going but the hints of the end result are there. A minor success so far is surprising my proof reader with the death of one character where he didn't expect it.

I'm glad that others are on the same wavelength

 

[thaddeus6th]

Mouse, I've got to agree. For some reason, happy endings make me feel warm and fuzzy (or bored) but tragic endings always strike a deeper chord.

I do think it's important not to try and shoehorn in an ending that's inappropriate, though. If a book's grim and gritty and brimming with woe, but nobody actually dies and everyone lives happily ever after it will probably feel a bit false. Likewise, if a book's quite upbeat and everyone ends up miserable it would just feel a bit off.

Edited extra bit: Luiglin, I know what you mean. Endless danger resulting in a few flesh wounds erodes immersion. That's why I like body counts to vary from high to very high.

 

[Mouse]

One of my favourite stories is Oscar Wilde's The Nightingale and the Rose. The ending is perfectly sad.

Kylara - your post reminded my of The Toymaker by Jeremy de Quidt. It's a YA horror and the ending is heartbreaking.

 

[Aminar]

Happy but with consequences. The characters succeed. But success has consequences too. You felled the tyrannical government. Great. Look at the French Revolution and how that went. You killed Big Bad evil guy. Hey look, he was the frontman for something Mich worse and you're on their radar now.

Or peaceful. Peaceful endings are the ones where you finish the book, set it down, and sigh in relief. There's a happy glow despite the bittersweet nature of the eending. Harry dying at the end of Harry Potter would have been this. The third Mistborn Book was this. The End of the Wayfarer redemption was this.

I loathe endings where everyone of consequence just dies and nothing is resolved. Nobody reads for that unless they want stark realism and epicly cynical.

 

[Luiglin]

I loathe endings where everyone of consequence just dies and nothing is resolved. Nobody reads for that unless they want stark realism and epicly cynical.

In some respects I agree and yet these sort of situations do occur and still make great tales, the Alamo, Battle of Thermopylae, the Gallipoli landings in WWI and the Charge of the Light Brigade during the Crimean War. There were consequences for each but in some ways no tangible resolutions.

As such I don't necessarily want a specific resolution. The tale itself is just part of a greater story going on around them, they are just a snapshot.

However I want ripples of consequences that spread into other tales I'd like to write which would be additional tales in the same world rather than any sort of direct sequel.

It could be just a pipe dream but that's my aim.

 

[HareBrain]

Bittersweet for me. You know why chocolate manufacturers are all suddenly doing salted caramels and whatnot? Because the more different types of taste-bud you can trigger at once (salt, sweet, bitter, sour, astringent) the more complex the taste, and the more satisfying and lingering the effect you get. Of course, the ingredients have to work together or it becomes an inedible mess.

For me, LOTR has the perfect ending.

 

[ctg]

I really, really like finding a conclusion but I'll also like cliffhangers. So if you can write a Disney version with a cliffhanger, you'll have won me on your side.

 

[Luiglin]

A Disney cliffhanger ... now there's a challenge

 

[prizzley]

My current ending is not a cliffhangar, but it's full of possibilities.

 

[Hex]

Happy, though I can cope with some bittersweetness. Tragic I don't really like much -- I won't read a book again if I know the end is tragic. Why invest in the characters again if the story's just going to break my heart?

I don't read fantasy to be made miserable.

 

[Kylara]

Mistborn has a truly gorgeous ending...perfect mix of tragic and happy - it fits and that it was is most important for me...

 

[prizzley]

it fits and that it was is most important for me...

Exactly.

 

[Aminar]

In some respects I agree and yet these sort of situations do occur and still make great tales, the Alamo, Battle of Thermopylae, the Gallipoli landings in WWI and the Charge of the Light Brigade during the Crimean War. There were consequences for each but in some ways no tangible resolutions.

As such I don't necessarily want a specific resolution. The tale itself is just part of a greater story going on around them, they are just a snapshot.

However I want ripples of consequences that spread into other tales I'd like to write which would be additional tales in the same world rather than any sort of direct sequel.

It could be just a pipe dream but that's my aim.

I don't think that's a good fictional story though. Yes, martyrdom has great emotional value, but that shouldn't be your ending(unless you make the tone that bittersweet feel. It should be a point in your story. If that's the ending you've just lost a reader.(Or at least that's how I would look at it.) That and deaths of characters in books should always have meaning. That's one bit of realism that needs to go away unless again, it motivates a character for a further arc of the story. A bit like Sirius Blacks death. Pointless and stupid but did push Harry(although that's a poorly executed example. More could have been done with it.)

 

[Lilmizflashythang]

In some respects I agree and yet these sort of situations do occur and still make great tales, the Alamo, Battle of Thermopylae, the Gallipoli landings in WWI and the Charge of the Light Brigade during the Crimean War. There were consequences for each but in some ways no tangible resolutions.

Hey. Hey. Hey. Don't be including the Alamo. It wasn't a hopeless case. It was just Act 1. We won, we got our own nation, and Santa Ana couldn't do a thing about it.

On the endings, I think just cause it's happy doesn't mean that it's cliched. I prefer happy stories, but I can accept any ending that is appropriate.