What happened to everyone's first book?

[AnyaKimlin]

You've read my first, Springs, it is currently in its tenth rewrite, but I'm wondering if really all the nineth needs is a good edit.

 

[Colbey Frost]

My first ever book was written on paper. I don't know how long it was and didn't re-read it. I kept all my poetry and my novel in a bag. After six months of serious depression and having filled the bag I threw it all away. I had no human interaction and the escape I was creating for myself looked never to give me back.

I always walk a fine line when writing; trying to deal with my own emotional problems, but you can manage it. I was weak to let it consume me.

I don't regret binning it, I regret only that to feel, to really feel as if I'm getting anywhere, it hurts those around me. If I can produce anything of any worth while keeping level headed I will. If not, then I will wait until my kids have grown up and my wife gets rid of me before I dip my toe into that pool again.

 

[billhafan]

I always wonder how people know that agents or editors didn't read their submissions. Do the rejection slips say that they prefer to receive queries first and will not look at unsolicited submissions? Or do you figure it out some other way?

Hi Teresa, I followed every rule of every agent I contacted - having scoured the Writers and Artists Yearbook (and subscribed!) for several years. In most cases, the requirement was a précis and the first 3 chapters - with return postage/envelope etc. included, which is fair enough. But after many disappointments and zero feedback from the agents upon the return of my work - apart from the usual poorly photocopied rejection slip, in most cases - I guess that a little paranoia added to my frustration; the result of this was to send the next half-dozen out with say the fourth and fifth pages turned over ever so-slightly on one corner. This would never have even been noticed by someone turning the pages - but would be obvious on their return as to whether they had been turned/read.

Guess what? only one came back read ... and that's fine. If an honest judgement of my work warranted a rejection then I'm okay with it. But the others? Hmm ... maybe I was unlucky enough to pick agents who were maybe going through the motions, and I do understand they get thousands of MSS across their desks a week - but seems very disingenuous to me to even advertise they want 3 chapters etc. and not even read them.

Who wouldn't want a genuine agent, and the promotion etc. they can put behind your work, but it does little for a potential authors confidence if agents are doing this.

Thank Goodness for the Internet, and eBooks, I say!

 

[Kissmequick]

ETA: Wow, do many agents still take snail mail?

That doesn't mean they weren't read at all, just perhaps they weren't read to that point (many agents/slush readers reckon they can tell if something will interest them within the first two pages, or less - and if you baulk at that, think how much less many browsers give a book in a shop)

Also, many agents are wise to the trick of marking pages - I recall seeing one saying that when he came across such a thing, he made sure restored the MS to its original state because he hated the thought that people distrusted him that much, or that they would attach some meaning to it that wasn't there.

Why would an agent not read something that could be the next best thing? If they are open to submissions then ofc they will read enough to know whether they want to take it on. Now, perhaps they can see from the cover letter that it's not the sort of subject they'll take on, or they already have a book that's very similar, or any number of things. Maybe the cover letter sounds interesting but by page three they realise they aren't getting on with your style, or again any number of things.

That doesn't mean they haven't considered it.



Have you ever read slushkiller? An eye opener, really. Check number 3 - rejection in context.

Oh, yes, my first book. After major revisions and after no agent woudl touch it (I see why, now) I nonetheless got it published with a small press. And boy did that editing teach me things! I found out exactly why I'd been rejected all those times...Luckily the editor had liked my voice and took a chance on me.

 

[ctg]

Hmm ... maybe I was unlucky enough to pick agents who were maybe going through the motions, and I do understand they get thousands of MSS across their desks a week - but seems very disingenuous to me to even advertise they want 3 chapters etc. and not even read them.

Thousands? Really? Where do you get such figures? There aren't that many desperate writers out there.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

the result of this was to send the next half-dozen out with say the fourth and fifth pages turned over ever so-slightly on one corner.

I've heard that most agents usually decide in the first few pages if a book is not for them ... though it will take much more to decide that it is (which is why they ask for the three chapters, in case the book immediately pulls them in and they want to keep on reading). So it may be the case that while they didn't read your whole submission, they had read enough to make up their minds. Which would not necessarily be a reflection on the quality of the manuscript. It could just mean that it didn't have a strong enough hook to interest someone with a big stack of submissions on their desk.

This would never have even been noticed by someone turning the pages

Oh, I believe they are all of them on to that trick -- it's not a new one by any means -- and from all I've heard, they don't appreciate being tested.

But to return to the topic, it would be interesting to know from those who have submitted their work and received rejections how many rejections it took for them to either sell the book or give up and start something new.

 

[ctg]

But to return to the topic, it would be interesting to know from those who have submitted their work and received rejections how many rejections it took for them to either sell the book or give up and start something new.

It started at number ten and finished at number fifteen (the Finnish competition) and I knew it was no good.

 

[Boneman]

But to return to the topic, it would be interesting to know from those who have submitted their work and received rejections how many rejections it took for them to either sell the book or give up and start something new.

I lost count of the rejections for my first book, but I would estimate 40-50 over three years - the vast majority thoroughly deserved!

 

[Dante DiBenedetto]

Thousands? Really? Where do you get such figures? There aren't that many desperate writers out there.

I've heard some agents claim an upwards of 50,000 queries a year, though a more conservative figure of the more popular (see: web presence) agents would be around 10,000+. I think a lot has to do with the individual agency.

NLA has a fair amount of web presence, and their agents get heaps, but I'm sure the average agent gets at most a few hundred per month.

Those are often just query letters; not even with attached pages from a person's ms.

Personally, I think it's a good practice, even if it does weed out some potentially great writers. If you can't convince the person you want representing you to even request pages of your book with a pitch, it might be a sign.

Some agents openly admit though that sometimes it's just that they're in a hurry, and they'll eliminate queries with little hesitation unless something really stands out. Kristin Nelson actually said, and I'm paraphrasing, "I just don't like dealing with the slush pile in Summer. I'm more likely to want to curl up and read manuscripts during the winter. You guys might want to wait until then."

Even though it is their profession, at the end of the day they're people, just like you and me. They're subject to the same whims as we all are.

Ask yourself this: Have you ever ran into a story requesting critique, or possibly an entry into a contest that you just didn't bother to get into after the first few lines? Same concept.

 

[Brian G Turner]

Guess what? only one came back read ... and that's fine. If an honest judgement of my work warranted a rejection then I'm okay with it. But the others? Hmm ... maybe I was unlucky enough to pick agents who were maybe going through the motions, and I do understand they get thousands of MSS across their desks a week - but seems very disingenuous to me to even advertise they want 3 chapters etc. and not even read them.

We've links in the Writers Resources board where agents effectively state that they can reject most MSS at the first page, but where the writing shows a degree of competency, want to be able to see this maintained over the first few chapters.

If you're getting standard rejection, the suggestion is that you're doing something wrong, not least that your writing isn't yet polished enough.

Have a read through some of the agent threads here:
http://www.sffchronicles.co.uk/forum/writing-resources/

 

[skynes]

My first 'book' was less a book and more a prologue and one chapter of an idea.

What happened was that I grew older, I read more, I wrote more, and I seen that my concept was weak. Maybe I could rework it later on, but my initial idea didn't have a lot of depth to it. I still like it, I still find my main character quite funny, but I'd need to redo the world and plot quite a bit to make it usable.

 

[billhafan]

Hi I,Brian, thanks for the links - and reading through them now.

I guess, my initial point was that it can be frustrating trying to get published - and as I pointed out - maybe paranoia on my part Believe me - the re-writes on that work were so extensive that the final article looked very different, and I hope much polished, very readable, and enjoyable for the reader.



regarding the comments from ctg - "There aren't that many desperate writers out there." Hmm ... I think aspiring writers would be a better term?

I don't see any writer as being desperate if they are contacting an agent with their work. Look at the fantastic enthusiasm of those here, who are writing and want success - be it personal or even as future novelists. Also add the genre's we all seem to like to the many others out there (+ non fiction), and the number of mss being sent to agents etc. is truly astonishing - and the number of discounted books and cheap book-shops is testament to many who haven't always made it onto best-seller lists, despite publishers support. So, we all keep plugging away, but most importantly, I hope, we enjoy writing and reading

 

[Karn Maeshalanadae]

If you're having a hard time with book length, you're probably not utilizing enough dialogue, which many writers will tell you, is the one thing readers virtually never skip/skim.

It's not even an acquired thing -- book length. I wrote my first book in a few months, and I had never written a story longer than 10,000 words before then. I'd say, focus on your characters and less on an outline; let them tell the story for you. You'll end up having to cut/edit down scenes, not worry about getting it long enough.

Yeah....actually, I have plenty of dialogue between characters, but, um...I tend to rush plot points a bit. At this point in the game, when I do try to bring things out more, I look back objectively and see what I put down isn't fit to feed landfills. Now, that's how a lot of first drafts go, yes. The trouble is...I'm not an editor at all. I really have no idea how to really polish things up and make them sound better. It's something I'm trying to work on, but it eludes me still...which is why I stick with flash fiction, short stories, and occasional poetry.

 

[Dante DiBenedetto]

It's something I'm trying to work on, but it eludes me still...which is why I stick with flash fiction, short stories, and occasional poetry.

I'd say, work with what you love to do. If you're a short fiction writer and don't feel you can do a book, why bother? Do short stories, poetry, and if you're up to it, a novella. I'd hold off on the latter though until you have a handful of published short stories. You want to know and feel your craft is up to snuff before submitting novella length stories. They're a tougher sell than Flash Fiction/short stories.

It's difficult to go from flash/short story writing, and I think doubly so from poetry, to get into novel writing. I can't write or focus on poetry and then segue into novel writing. I get too caught up in the imagery and word-craft and neglect the primary focus of the book -- telling a story.

If you're serious about writing a full length novel, frankly, I'd advise you to go on a reading binge of novels you really enjoy until you feel the spark. You'll emulate your favorite authors without even realizing it, and the dialogue/plot/subplots will just naturally flow. Alternatively, you can do a thorough outline. I'm not much of an outline writer for novels, though, but if you're having a hard time rushing the plot, it may be exactly what you need to do.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

Some take longer than others to figure these things out, Karn. What makes a writer is persistence, and knowing that you still have much to learn. You've identified your weaknesses, and that is a huge step in the right direction.

It would be nice if we all progressed in our writing skills at a steady pace (or if any of us did, which I doubt), but there are going to be times when it seems impossible to move a single inch forward, strain as you might, and times when you improve in one great leap.

It can be a discouraging, discouraging process. And then one day, unexpectedly, it isn't ... for a while.

 

[Bowler1]

I
But to return to the topic, it would be interesting to know from those who have submitted their work and received rejections how many rejections it took for them to either sell the book or give up and start something new.

Six plus rejections for me, and I sent out ten plus so I got a good response rate even if they were all rejections.

This annoyed quite a bit and when that happens I can get really stubborn. So I’m here to learn and I’m still re-working my first book. Christmas this year will make it two years of effort. My taking up the mighty pen was a new year’s resolution, for last year. It takes a lot of effort and more so with a day job to boot, but the bills have to be paid. I’m still enjoying the challenge and I’m getting better these days to the point where I may have a chance (we have to keep that belief alive no matter what!), time will tell. At my current pace I should be ready for my next set of submissions, March or April next year! Wish me luck.

My day time job is as an accountant and I have done some quick number crunching on my possible earnings. If I make £10,000 from my first book, then I’ll have earned 20p an hour…

 

[Bowler1]

My day time job is as an accountant and I have done some quick number crunching on my possible earnings. If I make £10,000 from my first book, then I’ll have earned 20p an hour…

Ahh, I'd like to up that number to £4 an hour, and sneek back out of this thread...

 

[Glitch]

I haven't got as far as to complete a whole book yet. But it has occurred to me that I might end up trashing the first story I write; this does seem to make it harder to write something which will never go anywhere

 

[Dante DiBenedetto]

I haven't got as far as to complete a whole book yet. But it has occurred to me that I might end up trashing the first story I write; this does seem to make it harder to write something which will never go anywhere

Don't give up! Finish that book


Quick Question: how many of you did a multi-POV book as your first novel(s)? I found it a lot easier to pump out chapters with several POVs than my current novel, which only has one. It's been quite a bit more challenging.

 

[billhafan]

Agree 100% that a multi-POV was easier to write - well, it seemed to flow easier, anyway - for me. My first book was multi-POV.