Different ways of saying "said"

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What I'm saying is that there is no one hard and fast rule that works in every situation, or for every style of writing, as some people would have you believe.

Take a book like "Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrell." The style in that is most emphatically not in line with contemporary ideas on good writing. Some people love that about it and some people hate it. I think it suits the story perfectly, but even I acknowledge that some of the things that Ms. Clarke does would be absolute disaster in a book with a contemporary setting.
 
Definitely good pointers Kelpie - I wrote the lists originally when my writing was so over-thick with dialogue that I was having trouble preventing "said" being the most common word in the piece. :)
 
for me, dialogue has always been the most difficult aspect of writing. it something that i work on all the time, to try and keep it natural and flowing is difficult enough without having to worry about the tags:) i've been known to write a 2500 word short story with no dialogue whatsoever. hehehe
 
Isn't there something in "Alice in Wonderland" about stories without any pictures or conversations? (Although Alice had a habit of reading over her sister's shoulder, which was rude anyway.)

Brian, if your writing was (or is) too dialogue heavy, perhaps the solution is not more saidbookisms but learning to do more body language, stage business, and physical stuff generally.

And as useful as your list is, a list of action verbs might be even more so.

(Though you won't get it from me, since action verbs are not my strong point.)
 
Oh, my writing has changed a lot since - but I still like the idea of slightly varying the language, where possible, just to mix things a little. Of course, there is a responsible way to do it, and the other... :)
 
I find that my with my own style. Its evolved so much over the years. Become simpler, more human. Sometimes i miss the old ten page descriptive pasages with huge words sprinkled about, but on the whole i'm happy with the evolution.
 
Just to add something that I don't think has come up before, and to thow in my opinion. I usually try to vary between said and other tags depending on the dialogue I'm writing, I only use said-bookisms when I feel it is important to let the reader know if someone is shouting or whispering or whatever.

I usually try to write dialogue in a way that is appropiate to the way it is being said, if that makes any sense. I hope most readers would be able to tell the difference between "Stop!", "Please stop", "Why won't you stop" and "Don't stop" without the need for 'shouted', 'asked', 'begged' and 'moaned'! I think that is when tags get noticable so I try to use as few as possible or I try to make them agree with what the character is saying '"We must go back" hissed Tom' rather than "We have to go back" hissed Tom'.

Of course when there is more than two people in a conversation tags become pretty important but I still try to cut down where I can. If one character wants to ask another a question then I'll usually put their name in the dialogue "What do you think Tom?" and then I can write the reply without tags because we all know that the character addressed is the one who answers, unless 'Tom looked blank. "I don't like him," Bob said'. Sometimes it is enough to write 'Bob said' or 'said Bob' to mix things up a bit! Or with some characters I work at establising the way they speak and the sayings they use early in the story and then repeat them later in the hope that the reader will remember the particular way a character speaks.

I learnt to do simple writing quite early on when I rather misguidedly took words from thesaurses and stuck them in my story because I wanted to use some long words! When I acctually tried looking them up I found I had made a very big mess so I've always stuck with quite simple language and played with it to get my meanings over. That and I've read so much that is let down by really heavy language so it's something I try to stay away from!
 
For me the word 'said' is inevitable when dealing with dialogue, so much so that I rarely even acknowledge it in a piece. The only time it becomes an issue is if it is constantly repeated in a short space, often unnecessarily. Generally I find that the very best pieces of dialogue writing use character tags only when it is ambiguous who is speaking, otherwise they simply let the characters' personality distinguish them from each other. Overzealous use of adjectives or variations on the word 'said' detract from the flow of speech (as OSC mentions) and worse yet, I feel as if they demean the intelligence of the reader, as if they can't determine whether a character is angry, sad, sarcastic, without the author explicitly stating it for them.

That said, overjudicious usage of the word, without any elaboration, can make a conversation feel flat or little more than a screenplay. I think the key is to feel the flow of the conversation, and to add additional emotions, actions, etc only when you feel the conversation is flagging, or when you want to explicitly state a certain thing that may not be apparent from the dialogue itself.

Most of the time I advocate the bare-bones approach, and save the richer language only for descriptive passages. The dialogue must first and foremost be used for conveying thoughts, emotions, and information between characters, not for showing off your vocabulary.
 
"Very impressive list, we could all use that. Nice job!" Yodells Novocaine.:D
 
INCREDIBLE!
This is like, the best site ever!!
Thanks for that list Brian, this is awesome!

I am going to love this site!! Forever!
 
Just to add - I now firmly reject my original list, and recommend avoiding it - it's encouraging over use of adverbs, and if you need a list like the one I presented to determine tone of dialogue, there may be deeper issues with your writing. :)
 
Hmmm... I was told by various writers/editors, and over the years have come to the conclusion they are right, that "said" is a "vanish" word. As you read it tends to vanish or blend into the story so it flows.

Different dialogue tags stand out, they make the reader notice them. So, they are best used for affect or when you need to hammer home the way the dialogue is being said.

Then again some writers break the rules, but knowingly, that is the important difference.
 
Said *feels* repetitive as a writer, because you type it so often, but like others have (ahem...) said, it's usually invisible to readers.

Said-bookisms, used sparingly, can add colour and vitality. They're more frequently used in children's fiction - some say it helps a child imagine a scene/tone of voice.

I use them occasionally - but more often rely on said/asked/whispered (when appropriate)/replied and so on.

I agree that if you want to use them, you shouldn't need a list. Using the list shows you're desperate to avoid said - if another word would fit better, it would probably jump to mind anyway.

(my usual disclaimer:everyone writes differently, and you can break even the invisible rules if you do it well)
 
mistri said:
I agree that if you want to use them, you shouldn't need a list. Using the list shows you're desperate to avoid said - if another word would fit better, it would probably jump to mind anyway.
that is true when you are a native english speaker.while me and my friend are translating the stories we write into english, a lot is lost because we do not know most of the alternative words we can use for the word said.it is an acceptable word but sometimes other words are needed too. i find this list much helpful and needed, even if it is just for enriching our vocabulary.

edit:by the way nodeg's comments on the first page are very helpful too but i do insist that a variety is needed sometimes. it depends on the scene
 
It never hurts to have a good thesaurus -- often quite extensive ones are rather cheap, especially in tpb or second-hand form, and can be referred to quite quickly and easily either while writing or during revision; preferably revision, as this is when you're going to be noticing such things as repetition of words/phrases more acutely than in the heat of original composition.
 
mistri said:
Said *feels* repetitive as a writer, because you type it so often, but like others have (ahem...) said, it's usually invisible to readers.

Said-bookisms, used sparingly, can add colour and vitality. They're more frequently used in children's fiction - some say it helps a child imagine a scene/tone of voice.

I use them occasionally - but more often rely on said/asked/whispered (when appropriate)/replied and so on.

I agree that if you want to use them, you shouldn't need a list. Using the list shows you're desperate to avoid said - if another word would fit better, it would probably jump to mind anyway.

(my usual disclaimer:everyone writes differently, and you can break even the invisible rules if you do it well)

Good points, mistri, and welcome to chronicles. :)
 
Interesting stuff and certainly something I've struggled with myself over the past book and a half that I've been writing. I usually go with "said" unless there's a good reason not to. OSC hit the nail right on the head.
 
Interesting thread. I agree with Brian - dont overuse these but its still a good list to have:)
 
Elmore Leonard's rules of writing (I'd link it but I don't have enough posts yet):

1 Never open a book with weather. If it's only to create atmosphere, and not a charac*ter's reaction to the weather, you don't want to go on too long. The reader is apt to leaf ahead look*ing for people. There are exceptions. If you happen to be Barry Lopez, who has more ways than an Eskimo to describe ice and snow in his book Arctic Dreams, you can do all the weather reporting you want.

2 Avoid prologues: they can be *annoying, especially a prologue *following an introduction that comes after a foreword. But these are ordinarily found in non-fiction. A prologue in a novel is backstory, and you can drop it in anywhere you want. There is a prologue in John Steinbeck's Sweet Thursday, but it's OK because a character in the book makes the point of what my rules are all about. He says: "I like a lot of talk in a book and I don't like to have nobody tell me what the guy that's talking looks like. I want to figure out what he looks like from the way he talks."

3 Never use a verb other than "said" to carry dialogue. The line of dialogue belongs to the character; the verb is the writer sticking his nose in. But "said" is far less intrusive than "grumbled", "gasped", "cautioned", "lied". I once noticed Mary McCarthy ending a line of dialogue with "she asseverated" and had to stop reading and go to the dictionary.

4 Never use an adverb to modify the verb "said" ... he admonished gravely. To use an adverb this way (or almost any way) is a mortal sin. The writer is now exposing himself in earnest, using a word that distracts and can interrupt the rhythm of the exchange. I have a character in one of my books tell how she used to write historical romances "full of rape and adverbs".

5 Keep your exclamation points *under control. You are allowed no more than two or three per 100,000 words of prose. If you have the knack of playing with exclaimers the way Tom Wolfe does, you can throw them in by the handful.

6 Never use the words "suddenly" or "all hell broke loose". This rule doesn't require an explanation. I have noticed that writers who use "suddenly" tend to exercise less control in the application of exclamation points.

7 Use regional dialect, patois, sparingly. Once you start spelling words in dialogue phonetically and loading the page with apos*trophes, you won't be able to stop. Notice the way Annie Proulx captures the flavour of Wyoming voices in her book of short stories Close Range.

8 Avoid detailed descriptions of characters, which Steinbeck covered. In Ernest Hemingway's "Hills Like White Elephants", what do the "Ameri*can and the girl with him" look like? "She had taken off her hat and put it on the table." That's the only reference to a physical description in the story.

9 Don't go into great detail describing places and things, unless you're Margaret Atwood and can paint scenes with language. You don't want descriptions that bring the action, the flow of the story, to a standstill.

10 Try to leave out the part that readers tend to skip. Think of what you skip reading a novel: thick paragraphs of prose you can see have too many words in them.

In conclusion, he dumps on adverbs and dialogue tags other than 'said', and while he may not touch sci-fi, good writing is good writing. Though to be fair, Elmore Leonard only writes Elmore Leonard-style, an extremely spartan and direct style that's not for everyone. But I can see his point: getting too floral with your writing makes your reader realize they're holding a piece of literature rather than taking in and experiencing a story.

I try to get in the middle, with a few asked's and replied's and answered's and added to's and some adverbs sprinkled on, but probably 75% of 'em shake out to be simple said's, just letting the dialogue roll off with no buffering.
 
... I once noticed Mary McCarthy ending a line of dialogue with "she asseverated" and had to stop reading and go to the dictionary ...

Now I won't be able to sleep wondering what she assever...etc.

All hail Ernest Hemmingway, the father of 'said'
 
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