Info timing

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Jo Zebedee

Aliens vs Belfast.
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Being careful about the title. It isnt so much, I don't think, that I have too much info, although if that is the case, please shout... No, it has been put to me :p :) that I have a tendency to say my characters are going to do something, then stop to drop a bit of info, and eventually my characters carry out the planned action. This is, i think, one such excerpt, and i would love views on that (plus anything else) and any tips to make it smoother.



Catherine walked up the steps of the GC headquarters in Belfast city centre. Set amongst the rubble, the buildings around it either destroyed or ripped down, its metal exterior shimmered in the sun. It was incredible: in only three weeks the peacekeepers had stopped the riots and started to rebuild the city centres and housing estates. Mind you, being able to put up a building in less than half an hour made it a bit easier, but even so…

She pushed against the glass doors with their ringed planet insignia, not sure whether it was the new building or the prospect of a job – a proper one with a professional contract – that gave her hope. Nor did she care.

She walked into the reception area and wasn’t surprised to see a bot behind the desk; the GC appeared to have one for every purpose. It made her angry - there were plenty of people she knew who’d kill for the job - but she swallowed it; once passes were arranged, jobs would be made available to everyone. She tightened her hand around her own pass; as a professional, she’d had a Zelotyr-issued one already in place when the virus had been released.

A wave of dizziness – anxiety, the doctor said – washed over her and she put her hand out, steadying herself against the wall. It was because of her Zelotyr pass that she and Jeff had been given one of the first new houses. Otherwise, they’d still have been living down at his mum’s when the rioters went in search of the new houses, the ones for the privileged. She bit down, forcing her tears back. He was gone, and it wasn’t like she was the only one mourning someone. In fact, it was both the biggest blessing and hardest thing to bear in New Belfast, that everyone understood how hard life was and exuded the same grief themselves. She walked to the receptionist – bot; they might want her to think of them as people, might have given them arms and legs and odd human-like metal faces, but they bloody weren’t – and smiled. “I have an appointment to see Captain Carter.”

The bot’s propulsors flared and it turned to a filing cabinet, rifling for something. A moment later, it handed a handful of papers to Catherine. “Fill in name, age, pass details, who you are here to see, how long for, purpose of visit.”

Catherine sighed. Who programmed them? The door to the street opened and she turned to see a Twilex padding across the reception room, its canine head amplified by a mane. It stopped in front of her, lifted its front paws and fixed her with its eyes. She froze.

“Good afternoon.”

The translator unit made its voice sound odd, especially when the original growls and yelps could still be heard under the words. She nodded, glanced at the weapons unit strapped across its chest, and gulped. It extended a front paw to her, its claws elongated and jointed, resembling fingers. She reached hers out, touched it briefly and pulled back.

“Hello,” she managed.

The Twilex dropped back onto all fours and padded up a stairwell in the corner. She finished filling in the papers, her hands shaking, and handed them back to the bot.
 
In the view of the person who may or may not have said that :p .... this doesn't do it because what's happening here is Catherine is walking into a building and filling in some forms while thinking about stuff that's happened.

I find it a little information dense, but I don't have problems with the progression of the scene (if you like). If Catherine was walking up the stairs thinking about how she had to get up to see Mr Thomason in room 44 to find out what had happened to him and she thought about him another couple of times through the scene here and possibly mentioned how important it was to one of bots, then I might be more inclined to have an issue.
 
Similiar to Hex, your imparting a lot of information and it's a very slow pace because of this. Her remembering the riots seemed remote and was a repeat from the peacekeeper/buildings. But mostly pace, it reads slow and there is a lot of info. Some good emotion, which I liked.
 
I'm not sure. Maybe because I was forewarned, this feels like she's fighting to get to the reception desk. She walks up the steps: pause for breath. She pushes open the doors: pause for breath. She walks into the reception area: pause for breath (and to actually feel faint in this case). It's like someone out of shape trying to climb Everest.

OK, she's actually pausing to reflect, not for breath, but the effect on me is the same. I don't know what the answer is, though, since I don't know where else you can put the info or how much of it is truly necessary. I don't even know if you need an answer, since others so far clearly don't have the same issue.
 
I'm not sure. Maybe because I was forewarned, this feels like she's fighting to get to the reception desk. She walks up the steps: pause for breath. She pushes open the doors: pause for breath. She walks into the reception area: pause for breath (and to actually feel faint in this case). It's like someone out of shape trying to climb Everest.QUOTE]

Yes, this is my concern. Obviously, I'm using the mountain climbing technique to impart info and trying to keep what is, really, a dump active, but it might not be entirely working. Maybe I'll stick her on a pair of skis instead, she can think while she slaloms... :)

Similiar to Hex, your imparting a lot of information and it's a very slow pace because of this. Her remembering the riots seemed remote and was a repeat from the peacekeeper/buildings. But mostly pace, it reads slow and there is a lot of info. Some good emotion, which I liked.

The slowness doesn't worry me too much, as it speeds up again almost as soon as this scene is over, and we've been pretty fast paced up to now. Do we need all the info now? I'll think about that. I think I probably do, though.

In the view of the person who may or may not have said that :p .... this doesn't do it because what's happening here is Catherine is walking into a building and filling in some forms while thinking about stuff that's happened.

Okay, so I think I'm grasping the difference, but see comment above to HB. It's good to think about these things. :)
 
HB is very sensitive (I think it's the whiskers) and may be picking up here what stopped me in some of the other sections.

I think it's more explicit when there's something the character has to do and their thoughts are stopping them getting on with it, but this is certainly delayed. I'm not sure what to suggest -- I'm struggling with breaking up infodumps too.
 
Forgive my temerity, but I had a go at knocking it about to see if I could overcome the asthmatic feeling I had. I think the problem might have been the "she did this, then thought that" rhythm, when instead you might want to more closely integrate action and reflection (as with the door below), and I think it helps if she can stand in a queue whilst thinking about Jeff.

Anyway, hope this helps a bit. I appreciate some of the sentences are a bit long.



Catherine stepped around the Belfast city rubble and up the steps of the new GC headquarters, its metal exterior shimmering in the sun. It was incredible, she thought as she pushed against the glass doors with their ringed planet insignia, how in only three weeks the peacekeepers had stopped the riots and started to rebuild the city centres and housing estates. And now she had the prospect of a job: a proper one with a professional contract.

The sight of the bot behind the reception desk sparked anger, which she swallowed -- there were plenty of people she knew who would kill for the job, but she supposed that once passes were arranged, jobs would be made available to everyone. She tightened her hand around her own pass, a Zelotyr-issued one she'd already possessed, as a professional, when the virus had been released. It had led to her and Jeff being given one of the first new houses, and that had led to Jeff being caught when the rioters came to attack the new homes for the supposedly privileged. Standing in the queue, she bit down, forcing her tears back. It wasn’t like she was the only one mourning someone. It was both the biggest blessing and hardest thing to bear in New Belfast, that everyone understood how hard life was and exuded the same grief themselves.

When her turn came she smiled at the bot, though she couldn't see them as human even if they had been given arms and legs and odd human-like metal faces. “I have an appointment to see Captain Carter.”
 
No :p

If you think it works, can you see why? It might be worth pointing out, for example, that my version doesn't actually say that she walked into the reception area: it says she pushes on the doors, and then remarks on something she sees in the reception. The reader fills in the (very obvious) link, and it perhaps removes an element of spoon-feeding that risks making it feel a bit laboured.

Another thing I noticed: you don't need to say "He was gone"; the following line about mourning makes it clear and says it better, and it makes the reader do a little bit of work which I think keeps them better engaged.
 
Dang.. yes, I can see why. I think it's a happy medium - I doubt if I could do it in your style (which is right, cos I'm not you :)) but I can see how I could break up the pattern a bit better. Ty. :)
 
This actually didn't bother me too much, but I can see how the edits move it faster. As info goes, I've seen much worse published.

I was a little confused about how she feels though. First she's hopeful about the prospect of a new job, then she's angry, then she's holding back tears in mourning? The speed of the changes caught me off guard a little.
 
I think HB is on the right track with cutting out some of the action. That's what I picked up with it. All the thoughts going on in this scene are fine, but the part where I struggle with the most is getting through the doors and to the reception desk.

I would have suggested the same thing, take out the walking in and just comment on the reception; we already know she is going inside based on the previous action. The other actions in that paragraph, which give the asthmatic impression are a bit overdone I think.

So in the end, probably too many actions.
 
Catherine sighed. Who programmed them? The door to the street opened and she turned to see a Twilex padding across the reception room, its canine head amplified by a mane. It stopped in front of her, lifted its front paws and fixed her with its eyes. She froze.

Another thought came to me in hindsight. The question of who programmed them, why does she even ask this? I suspect it would be better if the sigh and question were cut out completely. I just don't see the relevance for it in this scene.
 
Another thought came to me in hindsight. The question of who programmed them, why does she even ask this? I suspect it would be better if the sigh and question were cut out completely. I just don't see the relevance for it in this scene.

It is an interesting question. So much of what i write is now driven by internal thoughts and dialogue (arguably too much, but that is another thread) that if i don't get it in there, i struggle to capture what i need.

Here it is to capture a certain resignation and bemusement, an element of things being subtly taken over. So, to me it is relevant, but there may be better ways to show it, but how, when i am essentially walking each scene in a character's thoughts. Answers on a postcard... :confused::)
 
info timing by springs

I found this to flow well though for some reason I had a few places I stopped. I think its just me after all I have only a minor clue as to what GC might stand for. That's trivial.

I thought that the plodding into the building may have been a tone thing but maybe everyone else is right and that's not the tone you wanted to set. I thought it worked. Be careful about changing the tone of the scene because everyone else thinks it should race along.

I didn't see too much info dump here and I like that you have added some clues to what may happen down the road in the characters thoughts. I'm not sure why some readers have to have only what pertains to this scene in this scene when you are writing something far more expanded than just this scene.My first rule of thumb in critique is that it could be there because its important later.

In fact on reflection if you remove the clues of future then you may have to stop and ask what are you doing here and then end up removing the whole thing- which is probably the next brilliant suggestion one of us geniuses will give you after you alter it that way.

I love what HB did but it felt like some other story- I don't know why but it felt all wrong for the way I had this scene in my head. I saw more of a character with deflated hope though there was some hope just all tainted by other aspects of life. HB made a sunshine lollipop out of the first few lines and if that's what your are going for then maybe you do need to change it.

If your are really interested in what works though, look closely at the the portion at the end where she meets up with the Twilex. One could almost argue there was not enough info there but I think it all come to the last line with all that driven emotion in one genius line you deliver full force and make up for any deficiency that's in the rest.

Even though I have no idea what a Twilex is, I now am not in any hurry to meet one.
 
Hi amberwaves,

I'm not commenting on your critique (because that's Not Allowed) but I wanted to say: you're absolutely right, of course. springs shouldn't change something just because we said so (I'm prepared to bet she won't, actually, but that's not the point).

She brought the initial piece up as an example of a pattern I wondered about while I was reading the whole manuscript -- and asked for help. That's why we were trying to help.

I like your critiques! Welcome to the forum.
 
I like your crits too, very thoughtful. I like that the quiet menace of the twilex translated, that the unease was picked up, and that some of the info is setting in place building blocks for later. Ty.

It is always a hard balance with crits, how much to take, what to leave.

I think, judging by the responses there wasn't a massive amount wrong, per se (winces at the thought of what tj could do with her purple pen, though), but i do seem to have fallen into this pattern of info imparting that is, perhaps, a little inelegant, and which after about two weeks of wondering if hex was right have decided that she was. She generally is, so i am not sure why i took two weeks doubting her...

The final version worked out like this, so sort of a hybrid of harebrain's ( i liked the queue to break it up, loved the word economy, but wanted to keep more of the description) and the original. I still have to do something about the three semis in quick sucession, though. Hmmm.


Catherine stepped around the rubble in the street and up the steps of the GC headquarters -its metallic exterior glistening in the early winter sun - in Belfast city centre. It was incredible: in only three weeks the peacekeepers had stopped the rioting, and started to rebuild the city centres and housing estates. She pushed open the glass doors with their ringed planet insignia, hardly able to believe she might have not just a job but a proper one with a professional contract.

She took her place in the short queue and scowled when she noticed the bot behind the reception desk; there were plenty of people she knew who’d kill for the job. She pushed her annoyance away; once passes were arranged, jobs would be available to everyone. She tightened her hand around her pass; as a professional, she’d had a Zelotyr-issued one already in place when the virus had been released.

A wave of dizziness – anxiety, the doctor said – washed over her and she put her hand out, steadying herself against the counter. Her pass had led to her and Jeff being given one of the first new houses, the ones for the supposedly privileged, and the first targeted by the rioters. She bit down, forcing her tears back; it wasn’t like she was the only one mourning someone. In fact, it was both the biggest blessing and hardest thing to bear in New Belfast, that everyone understood how hard life was and exuded the same collective grief.

She reached the top of the queue and tried to smile at the bot; it might have a face and form designed to look like a human but it bloody wasn't one.

"I have an appointment," said Catherine.

The twilex bit is much the same as the original.
 
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Info timing by Springs (update)

What can I say you just made some of the best changes you could do on that. When I read the first version I was mildly interested in perhaps knowing more about this story. Now I'm hooked so the question is is there more story?
 
Info timing by Springs (update)

What can I say you just made some of the best changes you could do on that. When I read the first version I was mildly interested in perhaps knowing more about this story. Now I'm hooked so the question is is there more story?

Ty, it is nice if a change makes a difference. Oh yes, lots more... I hope. Wanders off, pen in hand.:)
 
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