Dialogue punctuation: commas vs semi-colons

[Astner]

Hi Astner! Welcome to the Chrons!

I know little of this strange thing called dialogue punctuation but I think it needs to work like this:

He grabbed her hand. ‘Don't worry, I'm here for you,’ Bob said with tears running down his cheeks. ‘It's going to be alright. We're going to...’ It was too much, Bob couldn't finish the sentence.

Not quite. Quotations aren't separate segments disrupting the text.

And so he said ‘hi’ and left. Is perfectly accurate.

You're right about the tears segment though, and so is the period before ‘He gabbed her hand’.

When you're putting an ellipsis at the end of a sentence it is always four dots - you add an extra for the full stop that would normally be at the end of a sentence - or a question mark if needed. I believe if you are adding a dialogue tag after the speech, then you can use a comma instead of the fourth full stop.

Not quite, ellipsis denotes an unfinished sentence, and a period a finished sentence. You can't have both a finished and unfinished sentence.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

Not quite. Quotations aren't separate segments disrupting the text.

And so he said ‘hi’ and left. Is perfectly accurate.

You're right about the tears segment though, and so is the period before ‘He gabbed her hand’.

You can get away with that, maybe, but it isn't the same thing as writing dialogue and requires different rules. For dialogue punctuation, hex and warren are spot on. And hi, welcome to the chrons, where hours can be spent over the relative merits of a comma..

The ellipsis one, I think I generally agree with you, as the sentence is not completed, but four dots after an ellipsis is correct if you don't finish that sentence, but start another eg.

"I think so...." I wait, looking at the telephone. "No, you are right."

But if you are going to use it like that you don't need to tell us Bob didn't finish the sentence, imho, the ellipsis does it for you.

Against

"Let me think..." I pause, "you're right."

 

[Astner]

3 - Do Not Capitalize a Sentence Extension

When you have an extension on the same sentence as the quote, you need to make sure that the extension of the sentence does not begin with a capital letter. I offer this example to better illustrate what I'm describing.

"You didn't see her?" The detective asked.

The right way:

"You didn't see her?" the detective asked.

Source.

 

[Astner]

(Sigh.)

Examine these two sentences.

"I didn't see her." She whispered, holding back her anger.

"I didn't see her," she whispered, holding back her anger.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

(Sigh.)

Examine these two sentences.

"I didn't see her." She whispered, holding back her anger.

"I didn't see her," she whispered, holding back her anger.

Sorry, what is your question? The second is correct as she whispered is a dialogue tag. For the first to be used you would have to go

She held back her anger as she whispered

Which isn't elegant, imho.

 

[Abernovo]

The second is correct as speech attribution, Astner.

The first is not speech attribution, but an observation of the character's actions.

They mean different things.

 

[Bowler1]

The 2nd. She whispered is a for me a speech tag. To use a full stop before the - she whispered seperates it from the action/speaking and leaves the whispered hanging for me. Use the comma and whispered is linked with the dialogue.

If whispered was changed to (anything other than a speech tag) paused, then the full stop would be fine for me as it's not a speech tag but a character emotion or action.

Think carefully, Astner - we sink into the depths of comma placement only to return bleery eyed days later, and usually with no final solutions.... (do I need a fourth . here?)

I'm 3rd in. Clearly I waffle too much!

 

[Jo Zebedee]

Yes. you finished your post.

 

[Mouse]

(Sigh.)

Examine these two sentences.

"I didn't see her." She whispered, holding back her anger.

"I didn't see her," she whispered, holding back her anger.

Whoa. Patronising, much?

 

[Ursa major]

Not quite. Quotations aren't separate segments disrupting the text.

And so he said ‘hi’ and left. Is perfectly accurate.

What one does for a single quoted word simply doesn't help with one or more phrases or sentences of quoted speech. The punctuation is there to help the reader decipher the text (narration and speech); with a single word quote, there's nothing really to decipher.

It's hard to state hard and fast rules - if only because quoted speech is likely to be far less grammatically "correct" that narration** - but if one doesn't grasp the rules, one will have more problems with successfully playing with them and deviating from them. Furthermore, unless the reader is fully aware that one is knowingly playing or deviating, they'll simply assume the writer is ignorant of the rules, which isn't a good thing.

So here is a version of your example punctuated in the way a reader would expect.

The wind was silenced with the Dragon's roar, the whispering of the trees ceased, and Bob looked down at his little sister—who despite all her agony couldn't overcome her punctured lung and let out a scream. He grabbed her hand. ‘Don't worry, I'm here for you,’ Bob said with a tears running down his cheeks. ‘It's going to be alright. We're going to...’ It was too much. Bob couldn't finish the sentence. He grabbed her in his arms and let her head rest against his chest. He had promised her that he'd be there until the end. And he was.

You can then deviate from this to meet any special requirements.

Note that I've changed 'leaned her head' to 'let her head rest' (as he can't lean her head: only she can) and removed the comma splice. (By the way, the whole first sentence is a bit iffy, unless the dragon's roar is magic and can stop the wind; more likely the roar drowned out the sound of the wind and the whispering, both of which continued.)




** - If the narration is meant to represent a special case - for example, folksy first person, a child narrator, or a narrator who's not supposed to be comfortable with the language of the narration - that can work.

 

[Astner]

The second is correct as speech attribution, Astner.

The first is not speech attribution, but an observation of the character's actions.

They mean different things.

Exactly.

Warren_Paul's point—that I disagree with—is that every segment of dialogue should be ended with a period.

Hex's point—that I disagree with—is that ellipses denotes a closed clause.

"He said..." Harry facial expression changed to that of disgust before continuing "... that he prefers Dr Pepper over Coke."

 

[The Judge]

Astner, one of your posts was caught automatically by the software as you were linking to an outside site, which isn't allowed until a member has 15 counted posts. I've now approved it, as the link is a good one, which means you're repeating yourself a little, but as everyone is replying to the second one it's the lesser of two evils.


And while I'm here, we're talking punctuation, people, which I know is of the greatest importance, but we still treat each other with respect when responding.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

Exactly.

Warren_Paul's point—that I disagree with—is that every segment of dialogue should be ended with a period.

Hex's point—that I disagree with—is that ellipses denotes a closed clause.

"He said..." Harry facial expression changed to that of disgust before continuing "... that he prefers Dr Pepper over Coke."

Hex actually said that she wouldn't fight over the small i indicating that it may not denote a closed clause.
Warren said it shoud be a period unless it goes to a dialogue tag.
Seems we're all saying the same and the messages are getting lost?

 

[Abernovo]

Okay, a four dot ellipsis does denote a closed clause. 3 dots continue the sentence. 4 dots denote that the sentence has terminated into silence. The sort where 'there were no words that he could add' could be tacked on as an observation afterwards.

One thing:

"He said..." Harry facial expression changed to that of disgust before continuing "... that he prefers Dr Pepper over Coke."

Technically, there shouldn't be a space between the ellipsis and the next word (unless it's a four-dot ellipsis, where the previous sentence has died a death). That being said, having an ellipsis in the previous part of the conversation, you don't need an ellipsis when the conversation resumes.

On the points that WP and Hex raised, they were, I'm afraid, correct in their examples.

While I'm here, welcome to the Chrons.

 

[HareBrain]

I would fight (though not quite to the death) over the small "i". It's not a sentence extension. The fact that an ellipsis doesn't denote a closed clause isn't the point here. The use of a small "i" is the ellipsis equivalent of a comma splice.

 

[Stephen4444]

I have used it a couple of times, but as ever Harebrain's rule* is the key:

I sat down, tired; the day had been longer than I expected.

If I used a dialogue tag after tired, I might use a semi before continuing ( might cos I think a full stop might work in the clause too, and would be smoother.)
So, yes, to link two parts of dialogue that would have a semi anyway, otherwise no, I think. So no, in this case because with John says you have a new sentence, which can't start with a semi.

: D

Yes I agree, but... the reason for the semicolon, in that case, is the introduction of a relative clause. You have two clauses, grammatically complete, formed into a compound sentence. In the case of a quote that starts with "He said," in and of its self doesn't constitute a parenthetical, complete, sentence or idea.

I might be wrong... you can stylistically do what you want but I feel that you should use a comma: when using dialog in a "He said," "She said" situation.

 

[Ursa major]

I think the adding, or otherwise, of a full stop after an ellipsis** is something that one can choose for oneself. (If one's publisher insists on one or the other, that's up to them.) As it happens, I often add a full stop here***, but omit it in my fiction (where I now use an m-dash to indicate interrupted speech, and the ellipsis shows speech that has tailed off, leaving what was intended to be said incomplete).



** - Or three separate full stops, for that matter.

*** - At the end of a complete sentence to indicate that the content is intended to be taken as being humorous (whether or not it is ).

 

[Astner]

Okay, a four dot ellipsis does denote a closed clause.

I'll have to ask for a source for that.

As an example of my previous point.

'And even then,' Rake continued, 'she couldn't bring me down.'

 

[Warren_Paul]

Exactly.

Warren_Paul's point—that I disagree with—is that every segment of dialogue should be ended with a period.

Actually that is not what I said at all. I think you're misunderstanding me.

Speech that has a dialogue tag after it ends with a comma. Of course, as Ursa rightly points out a few posts down, you can also use anything other than a period with a dialogue tag too.

Speech that doesn't have a dialogue tag after it ends with a period, or exclamation mark, or question mark - whatever the sentence calls for.

Why I took the dialogue tag out in your example was because it wasn't used efficiently and was just bloating. The scene flows faster without it. A good practice is to only use dialogue tags were needed for clarification of who is talking, otherwise an action can be used instead. In your example, you used both an action and the dialogue tag. What you wrote in regards to the dialogue tag was fine, but not good practice.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

I'll have to ask for a source for that.

As an example of my previous point.

I can't explain exactly why but it is something to do with carrying the action, I think. But here he continued is a dialogue tag and is absolutely correct.