Let's talk about sex...

If a sci fi book started with sex would you

  • Put it down and shudder

    Votes: 3 4.6%

  • Read on without blinking too much

    Votes: 46 70.8%

  • Be more interested in it for it

    Votes: 5 7.7%

  • Wonder if it really was a sci fi book, and not be sure about continuing

    Votes: 11 16.9%
  • Total voters
    65
Yeah that sounds really bad, Brian. Don't think I'll be reading that book if the author thinks sexual assault is "entertaining".
 
First off, sorry if it seems I'm hijacking this thread. I just thought it had an appropriate title to discuss matters of biological imperative. :)

I've done some thinking, and I'm not sure how, err, graphic to get with descriptions. I did take heart from GRRM:

Life is very full of sex, or should be. As much as I admire Tolkien — and I do, he was a giant of fantasy and a giant of literature, and I think he wrote a great book that will be read for many years — you do have to wonder where all those Hobbits came from, since you can't imagine Hobbits having sex, can you? Well, sex is an important part of who we are. It drives us, it motivates us, it makes us do sometimes very noble things and it makes us do sometimes incredibly stupid things. Leave it out, and you've got an incomplete world.
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The two chapters I have going involve an aging farmer who is in love with a water nymph, and a former eunuch who is really living it up now. There needs to be some sort of, err, scenes to explore these two characters' relationships.
 
The GRRM quote reminds me of his Wild Cards series, which wouldn't be a quarter the series it is if not for the sex, as fun, as a weapon and as a danger. I agree, sex is a part of life, and if you're telling a story in which sex is a significant part, you shouldn't hide it away.
 
I will update since this has been revived -- the sex scenes are still in Galaxy,as is a pretty full on close third birth scene (close your eye, blokes :D) but aren't in the opening chapter anymore. The concensus here was right - we need to know the characters, first - but it is probably one of about three absolutely integral scenes.
 
springs said:
The concensus here was right - we need to know the characters, first - but it is probably one of about three absolutely integral scenes.
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I thought it was worth keeping the discussion going. :) I started writing last night about my recovered eunuch. I introduce him sneaking out of the harem on his private space station, where he has to deal with a foster sister seeking refuge. It's his POV in this chapter, so it's a big shift, lets me indulge in a different sort of character. He's a lech, so I need to at least show not say a bit. :eek:
 
Yes, indeed. Male HRT and advances in prosthetic design have worked wonders for this character. Last time his female cousin saw him, he was being emasculated by a mob. They come from a political family that's seen better days.

The use of bad puns is SO tempting. Must . . . be . . . strong. :D

I will admit that I was watching Series 2 of Coupling on Netflix while writing this scene.
 
I haven't read all 8 pages here, so please forgive any repetitions.

I think that a lack of discussion of the absolutely profound effects very likely and very impending future developments concerning sex will have on the entirety of human culture is one of the major defects in SF, and even Fantasy. These developments are immortality and a totally functional robotic woman and man.

If you examine just about any story it is about, at the core, sex. Even so-called "action" stories are, in the end, about the acquisition of wealth,and/or power of one kind or another so that one can acquire more, different, or specific kinds of/people for, sex.

Sex isn't just part of life. It IS life. It's the reason we don't just tap the intravenous, nourishment/sedative bag, adjust the music and go back to sleep when we awaken every morning

How will it change our lives when sex is no longer either a. really necessary or b. inaccessible however wanted without extreme effort of one type or another and/or easy to get but fraught with consequences.

How will we treat sex when we realise that we don't need to seek a very ersatz immortality through children?

How will the bar scene change when every person walking through the door is automatically scanned as a condition of entry and you will be able to order her or him along with your first drink, for about the same price?. Or why not have Johnny Depp or Gwyneth Paldrow over for "dinner" at the end of a hard day? All indistinguishable from the real thing by any sensory input?

Both of these things are coming if we listen to most scientists, and soon.

And if you think these things will really have little effect consider that most statistical/demographic studies of slavery find that it's NOT about work. Horrific tales of salt mines and cotton fields aside those are generally exceptions. It's much easier to get someone to do useful work by paying them than beating them. The dirty little secret of slavery is that it's mainly about sex, otherwise it wouldn't change to serfdom (which IS different)when there is a chronic labor shortage, as there was in medieval times

I've seen it addressed in SF, the end of Ridley Scott's Blade Runner is one of the few movies that literally makes me cry every time. (As an aside, do you know that Rutger Hauer improvised that line "like tears in rain"?) And John Varley's Steel Beach depicts a world where people change sex like we would change an outfit. Maybe my reading in SF is more limited than I think, as I can't think of any others offhand. Can someone direct me to more?

As to whether a book should have graphic sex scenes, hell, yes. It should have graphic violence, working, playing, conversation and whatever else moves things along. We're talking about writing stories, yes, not a travelogue, history or legal decision?
 
Good post, Joan. I have some ideas towards what you are talking about. Fears expressed in movies like Soylent Green of mass overpopulation seems to be overplayed: in most of the industrialized world, negative population growth is happening. Immigration from less industrialized countries is making up the difference, with cultural and political ramifications. I am thinking of Germany, France, and the USA here myself.

So, what does the future hold? I just watched Gattaca, so that is on my mind. So is Brave New World--where satisfaction of every want and desire is possible but what is the social and personal cost?

I'm not convinced about fully functional, self-aware robots--we're still in need of a positronic brain or similar. Some kind of cyborg sure. The transfer of consciousness as a form of immortality is something I'm not quite prepared to accept--at least yet.

But will there be a search for authenticity as a backlash against easy, if artificial, desire fulfillment?
 
My writing style is graphic, so when characters have sex, it's graphic. I find it very, very hard to write, without sounding like a really bad romance novel.
 
I'm pretty poor at describing physical activity by my own account, so I haven't attempted anything too graphic yet.
 
JoanDrake said:
How will it change our lives when sex is no longer either a. really necessary or b. inaccessible however wanted without extreme effort of one type or another and/or easy to get but fraught with consequences.
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There's no way to tell how society could change as our needs or wants for sex change... but SF is the perfect place to explore the possibilities, not to sweep them under the rug.

I've done an okay job of writing sex scenes, but it can be a work in progress. Still... it's great work when you can get it!
 
That's encouraging, Steve. :) I've got a good imagination, but I'm not sure how much is too much. Like anything else, I'll start writing and see what results. Nothing I can post here, I'm afraid. :eek:
 
EricWard said:
I got no problems with it, so long as it doesn't degrade into harlequin romance territory (who the hell says "throbbing member" or "loins" with a straight face?).
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The way I see it, the words 'loins' and 'butchers' go together.



*cough*
 
Since we are a SFF site, keep in mind that euphemisms change. Seventeenth-century English girls were advised to seek husbands who have "yards" large enough but not overly so.

What does pillow talk sound like in the twenty-third century? Are there pillows? Do humans still talk? Oh, dear. :D

Furthermore: spoiler
I figure that since euphemisms tend to follow social situations, that the specific words used would fit the situation. The older ones (some still with us) come from farming. I imagine our space-bound descendants will be overheard referring to docking one's starship and perhaps "Take it down to warp one, ensign." My favorite line from all of Star Trek-dom remains the one Data delivered to Tasha Yar in the first season of TNG: "I am fully functional."

So fit it to tech and occupation, I imagine.
 
Seeing this thread back at the top reminded me that, somewhere back there in the early pages, I said I was going to track down the short story that was entirely about sex, and so I did:

Alexander Jablokov, "The Comfort of Strangers", F&SF Jan/Feb 2012.

I highly recommend it, and wish I had written it.

Oh, and thanks, Joan, for reminding me that I had been meaning to read Steel Beach again one of these days.
 
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