Examples of not-so-savory advice.

[psychotick]

Hi,

Worst bit of advice I have seen again and again and again across many writing forums. Don't self publish. Go the agent route. Keep trying forever and if it doesn't work - well work on your writing.

My advice - do what works for you!

Cheers, Greg.

 

[Abernovo]

Rules are a framework in which we work, they give guidelines that can keep you out of trouble but they are not something to adhere to fanatically. Unfortunately, I have no idea what the rules are, they tend to be understood rather than clearly stated.

There's an excellent section in these forums: Writing Resources. Contained therein is The Toolbox. Not so much rules, but tools and guidelines galore.

 

[Hex]

Actually that reminds me of some questionable advice I saw on a competition blog recently. It essentially said (admittedly in response to someone who had been incredibly rude) that a story not being picked up by agents/ passed by slush readers is always the writer's fault, which seems to me to be complete rubbish. Isn't it?

Everyone's always talking about how subjective things are. If you look at the competitions (sorry, obsessed, but I found them really interesting), there are some entries that get interest from 3-4 agents, and others that get no interest. BUT there are normally at least 10 agents involved and even if something is wildly popular, most of the agents don't go for it.

springs and I were talking about this the other day -- it's not just about being good, it's also about targeting.

Sure, most of the time when agents etc. turn work down it's because it's not good enough, but sometimes -- and you see this from #tenqueries etc on Twitter -- it is genuinely because they don't like something about it (it's too romantic/ the writing is too elaborate/ they don't find the character attractive) and they reckon another agent will really go for it.

ps: I need writers to follow the basic rules of grammar/spelling etc (at least the ones I know about). I find even those who have been published and lauded impossible to read and enjoy if they don't.

 

[prizzley]

"Your book is brilliant, I think it is something we can work with and has huge potential. With us as your agents you will go far.

Now slip us a hundred quid and we'll be under way."

Only £100? That's selling your soul cheap.!

 

[Boneman]

I've heard of grammar, I think its somewhere in France.

QUOTE]

Isn't she the octogenarian Alabama woman sitting on the porch in a rocking chair?

Actually that reminds me of some questionable advice I saw on a competition blog recently. It essentially said (admittedly in response to someone who had been incredibly rude) that a story not being picked up by agents/ passed by slush readers is always the writer's fault, which seems to me to be complete rubbish. Isn't it?
.

That is provable complete rubbish, because so many writers haven't made it out of the slushpile of lots of agents, but been picked out of another, and gone on to be successful. Damned if I can find the article I read about this about a year ago. Patrick Rothfuss said he was rejected by every known agent in the universe, many without replies (ergo, deep in the slushpile), yet he's done alright, hasn't he?

 

[allmywires]

Actually that reminds me of some questionable advice I saw on a competition blog recently. It essentially said (admittedly in response to someone who had been incredibly rude) that a story not being picked up by agents/ passed by slush readers is always the writer's fault, which seems to me to be complete rubbish. Isn't it?

So much rubbish! Agents are just like us, with their tastes and likes and dislikes, they aren't impartial robots. Obviously there is a *lot* of crap in the slush pile, but there's also a lot of gold, or in-need-of-a-little-polishing-potential gold. Just agents will probably always go for things they like as readers, and no matter how hard you try you really can't be impartial about taste.

 

[Susan Boulton]

One bit of "dodgy" advice that comes to mind: you keep hearing about how you need to write every day, even if its just a few words.

I personally think it is better to say write when you can, even if it is just a few words...



psychotick

Worst bit of advice I have seen again and again and again across many writing forums. Don't self publish. Go the agent route. Keep trying forever and if it doesn't work - well work on your writing.

My advice - do what works for you!

Cheers, Greg.

It's not bad advice, just one route, many, myself included, went. It doesn't mean your book will make it by any means.

The thing is self-publish or agent route, make sure you research everything you can about both, good and bad, before make your choice and sign on the dotted line.

Hex;

A lot of things are the writer's fault. I have seen folks shoot themselves in the foot by not following the agents/publisher's guidelines, sending the manuscript out before they have edited it and so on.

If you send out the best you have and follow the submission guidelines, then other things come into play and it is not a matter of fault on the side of either the writer, agent or publisher. There are hundreds of reasons why a manuscript is picked up or not and to try and reason out the whys will drive you insane!

 

[prizzley]

If you send out the best you have and follow the submission guidelines, then other things come into play and it is not a matter of fault on the side of either the writer, agent or publisher. There are hundreds of reasons why a manuscript is picked up or not and to try and reason out the whys will drive you insane!

Once you've done your utmost, it's best not to think about it.

 

[Hex]

Absolutely. What annoys me is the belief -- often repeated -- that if something isn't picked up instantly, it must be something you're doing wrong.

 

[Kissmequick]

Absolutely. What annoys me is the belief -- often repeated -- that if something isn't picked up instantly, it must be something you're doing wrong.

Not repeated by any writers or agents I know. The reasons for rejection (once your prose/story is up to scratch) are legion. They love it, but don't know who to sell it to. It's a good book, but it just doesn't quite click for them. Publishers often reject good stories that just aren't a fit for them and their brand. Or they like it, but aren't sure if it would sell well enough. Ad infinitum.

However, 95% or more of stories are rejected because the writing or story isn't up to snuff. (If you haven't seen this before, look at slushkiller. Scroll down to number three, the context of rejection).

 

[Jo Zebedee]

I think there is a lot we can do to make ourselves shine -- and if we don't, we are shooting ourselves in the foot. So, query letters. I hate doing them, though I'm getting better, but you have to learn to do them and do them well. Really, try going to query letter hell on Absolute Write and crit 50 in a row. By the end of it, you will be so bored, you'll be giving up the will to live. And that's what agents receive every day, so if you can't make it hooky/voicey or at least interesting in the first paragraph, you're in the bin. Harsh, but true.

As Hex said above, and yes we've had a few chats about this, targetting the agent. I had an agent a couple of days ago who came back, very politely, and wondered if Inish would go better in UK/Ireland. (I'm not sure, I think there's the ol' Celtic Ray out there in America.) As a result of that I went back to writers and artists and reviewed Irish agents. There aren't many, and they all state no sci fi, but I emailed them politely and said look it's scifi but it's based in a near-contemporary Ulster, it has a strong Irish voice, would you look at it. One has come back already with a request for a full. I wasted a lot of time with AC sending it to places where it has not a hope in hell. It took me being asked for a full for a romance imprint (for all those who've read AC... romance? one story line, only...) for me to question if I have the market right, and ergo the right query. Right enough, now I've made it just a little darker, it's doing better.

And talking about queries, that is the area where I have received the most conflicting advice:

Don't use a log line - I asked three agents and they all said they didn't mind one.
Put your book info at the end/ put it at the start - this is 50/50.
Include personal info/don't.

But, look, at the end of the day, it comes down to what we do with the advice. I took some bad advice on AC, changed a lot of the book on the back of it, and it was only 18 months on I realised I was wrong, and changed it back. I won't do that again, I'll stick to my guns a bit more.

 

[Mouse]

...targetting the agent.

I've been trying this. I really have. I've been looking at the authors they rep and reading about what they like... Then they still say 'not for us'. But anyway, think I screwed up with my most recent one because I sent it off and now see that they've Tweeted (and this isn't on their website) that they're looking for 'other world' fantasy. Which mine most definitely isn't. I'm expecting rejection number 4 very soon.

I've still not had to use a query letter, thank god.

 

[Hex]

oooh. Who's looking for other world fantasy?

 

[allmywires]

I've just been looking at an agent's submission/writing advice and some of these struck me as a bit...eh...off.

Pace – keep your chapters short as this automatically adds pace to writing. Put hooks and cliff-hangers on the end of each chapter to force the reader to read on. You want to make your book impossible to put down. Keep your sentences concise and keep descriptive paragraphs on the short side.
Dialogue – use as much dialogue as possible as this brings your story alive and really speeds up the pace of your novel. The reader doesn’t want to read huge paragraphs of description unless you are writing a very literary novel.
Location – try using locations that everyone can relate to. Big cities like New York and London are attractive and great for genre fiction. If you do use more obscure settings, make sure your readers can relate to your themes.

I've bolded the bits I found puzzling. All right, it's OK general advice, but does she mean that descriptive novels based in unknown locations are immediate nos? Surely we should just write what we want to write, to the best of our ability, and in our own style?

 

[Fishbowl Helmet]

Not repeated by any writers or agents I know. The reasons for rejection (once your prose/story is up to scratch) are legion. They love it, but don't know who to sell it to. It's a good book, but it just doesn't quite click for them. Publishers often reject good stories that just aren't a fit for them and their brand. Or they like it, but aren't sure if it would sell well enough. Ad infinitum.

However, 95% or more of stories are rejected because the writing or story isn't up to snuff. (If you haven't seen this before, look at slushkiller. Scroll down to number three, the context of rejection).

From my experience, I would bump that number up a bit to 99%. The most frustrating mss. are the ones who aren't easily dismissed and actually make it farther down the list, but are ultimately rejected.

 

[Mouse]

Hex, left you a message.

I've just been looking at an agent's submission/writing advice and some of these struck me as a bit...eh...off.

Pace – keep your chapters short as this automatically adds pace to writing. Put hooks and cliff-hangers on the end of each chapter to force the reader to read on. You want to make your book impossible to put down. Keep your sentences concise and keep descriptive paragraphs on the short side.
Dialogue – use as much dialogue as possible as this brings your story alive and really speeds up the pace of your novel. The reader doesn’t want to read huge paragraphs of description unless you are writing a very literary novel.
Location – try using locations that everyone can relate to. Big cities like New York and London are attractive and great for genre fiction. If you do use more obscure settings, make sure your readers can relate to your themes.

I've bolded the bits I found puzzling. All right, it's OK general advice, but does she mean that descriptive novels based in unknown locations are immediate nos? Surely we should just write what we want to write, to the best of our ability, and in our own style?

Who's that then, cos I use more dialogue/less description with a WiP set in London!

 

[allmywires]

Who's that then, cos I use more dialogue/less description with a WiP set in London!

Madeleine Milburn. Not sure if they do SFF.

 

[Mouse]

Madeleine Milburn. Not sure if they do SFF.

She reps an author who's written a book called The Boy Who Could See Demons.

Worth a bash.

 

[Kissmequick]

I've bolded the bits I found puzzling. All right, it's OK general advice, but does she mean that descriptive novels based in unknown locations are immediate nos? Surely we should just write what we want to write, to the best of our ability, and in our own style?

I think it's advice on the sort of book she likes to rep, that's all.

 

[Mouse]

I think she sounds spot on for me. Gonna try her. How long til I get a rejection?