3.03: Game of Thrones - Walk of Punishment

[ctg]

Tyrion gains new responsibilities; Jon is taken to the Fist of the First Men; Daenerys meets with the slavers; Jaime strikes a deal with his captors.

 

[allmywires]

Although it started slow, I enjoyed this weeks' show. Particularly the parallels of sex. We have Pod the unknown ladies' man, who's so talented the prostituts won't take his money; we have Theon very nearly being raped; and we have Jaime saving Brienne from the same fate. It's good to see (well, not good, but you know what I mean) the rape issues being addressed - especially since much 'historically accurate' fantasy doesn't even acknowledge that men are in as much danger of it as women. Particularly interesting as well was the conflict between Jaime's actions and his advice to Brienne earlier in the episode. I'm really enjoying their burgeoning friendship and they are probably my favourite double-act in the show behind Tyrion and Bronn.

I didn't much care for the stuff with the Crows/Wildings, mainly because it feels like it's not going anywhere (partly to do with trying to fit so much into one episode) and it's so disconnected from the rest of the plot. Dany giving one of her dragons away was a surprise, but instead of getting annoyed at Barristan and Jorah, she could have just explained her grand plan? I'm thinking that it's obviously some kind of set-up because she loves her dragons like children...either that or she really is bonkers about getting back the Throne.

I was waiting for that last scene to happen (I haven't read the books but someone spoiled me) and was wondering how it would come about. I'm always so surprised when the end credits start rolling - there never seems to be enough!

 

[Lenny]

A very good episode!

I particularly liked the opening scenes of Edmure failing miserably to hit the boat and the small council posturing with chairs.

This is the first episode where I've actually thought that Dany might be a force to be reckoned with. She's gone from almost being a wasted character, who has done very little, to someone who gives the impression that she can command at the same level as Robb Stark (who also came across as strong in this episode).

Theon's escape and rescue by the (so far) mystery man was well done. As a book reader, I'm watching these scenes with much interest.

I was as disappointed to discover that Vargo Hoat had been written out (replaced by this "Locke") as I was when I found out last week that Thoros had replaced Lem Lemoncloak. Lem, however, was just a good character, whilst Vargo was crucial. Because of this, and because Tyrion still has his nose, I was kind of worried that Jaime would keep his hand and that he'd be neutralised some other way. Am I glad I was wrong!

To wrap-up: a very strong episode, proving that the writers can write a nearly completely original script that somehow doesn't deviate at all from Martin's books.

---

EDIT: Whilst it's nice that GoT is replacing Harry Potter as the Who's Who of British Acting (new this week: Tobias Menzies as Edmure Tully, fresh from Saturday's guest appearance on Doctor Who!), I can't help but wonder how people who don't read the books are coping with characters who appear out of nowhere, or are referred to by name once in the first series and never again. For example, I don't think Edmure's name was mentioned once in the episode, let alone the fact that he's Catelyn's brother. Similarly, I only realised Karstark was Karstark when he made mention to his sons as he and Robb stood amongst the corpses in Harrenhal in the first episode this series.

 

[Mouse]

Lenny, I'm always losing track of who the lesser characters are. And I have read the books!

Similarly, I've got no idea what's going on with Theon and don't remember any of that in the books.

As for the ep, I thought the beginning was dull as all hell but it picked up. I also loved the Bronn/Tyrion/Pod stuff. Peter Dinklage isn't irritating me as much this series, I fancy he's toned down the Victor Meldrew.

 

[Lady of Winterfell]

I'm also having a hard time with the Theon stuff in the show. I think thats because he disappeared for awhile in the books, and so the show is deviating a bit. Apparently they didn't think the fans of the show would be pleased if he was gone for long periods. So far though, I could do without his scenes.

Particularly interesting as well was the conflict between Jaime's actions and his advice to Brienne earlier in the episode. I'm really enjoying their burgeoning friendship and they are probably my favourite double-act in the show behind Tyrion and Bronn.

You really should read the books then. It's even better.

I was as disappointed to discover that Vargo Hoat had been written out (replaced by this "Locke").

Me too.

I was kind of worried that Jaime would keep his hand and that he'd be neutralised some other way. Am I glad I was wrong!

If they had not chopped off his hand, I would quit watching the show. That would be too big of a deviation for me.

I can't help but wonder how people who don't read the books are coping with characters who appear out of nowhere, or are referred to by name once in the first series and never again. For example, I don't think Edmure's name was mentioned once in the episode, let alone the fact that he's Catelyn's brother. Similarly, I only realised Karstark was Karstark when he made mention to his sons as he and Robb stood amongst the corpses in Harrenhal in the first episode this series.

I agree; if I hadn't read the books, I would have no idea who Edmure of Karstark were.

 

[Brian G Turner]

Shows how much I've lost track with the books - in the Theon escape scene I was expecting him to be taken back, thinking the "escape" was supposed to be part of a planned hunt that repeated.

Also, Jaime's hand - felt a bit gratuitous, even though I knew it was coming. I think in the books we see the reasoning why the person might want to take revenge, but in the TV series, looked sadistic. Everyone can be bought except the common soldiers in Robb's army.

 

[tangaloomababe]

Having read the books, I knew Jamie's hand loss was coming but the look on my partners and sons faces was priceless!

Prior to that I hand enjoyed the usual Brienne and Jamie banter and how he saved her from being raped. The rest of the family think they are the next hot couple of the series, I am not telling! MILD SPOILERS: HOwever they also think things are tough for poor Theon at the moment, I didn't know how to tell them it only gets worse.


I agree with Mouse there are so many characters in the books you do loose track of a few.


I am thoroughly enjoying this season I just wish they had made them longer than the 10 minutes they seem to take.

 

[Culhwch]

I said it last thread and I'll say it again - watch the spoilers! I've actually edited it this time. I know they can seem minor, but it can still ruin a watcher's experience. At the very top of this forum there's a thread asking people to be careful: http://www.sffchronicles.co.uk/forum/530204-note-no-spoilers-please.html. If you want to discuss what's ahead for characters, do it on the Martin boards: http://www.sffchronicles.co.uk/forum/george-r-r-martin/.

 

[Nerds_feather]

I'm also having a hard time with the Theon stuff in the show. I think thats because he disappeared for awhile in the books, and so the show is deviating a bit. Apparently they didn't think the fans of the show would be pleased if he was gone for long periods. So far though, I could do without his scenes.

Shows how much I've lost track with the books - in the Theon escape scene I was expecting him to be taken back, thinking the "escape" was supposed to be part of a planned hunt that repeated.

The storyline is completely different in the books. I don't know how spoiler sensitive I should be here, so for now, suffice to say that all this happens in A Dance with Dragons, not A Storm of Swords, which among other things means that the context is totally different. (And in the book, when he does try his early escape from the lengthy torture sequences, he is taken back.) Plus a major character in aDwD and going forward dies in this episode, which will inevitably have massive consequences for the direction the show takes (and mark it as significantly different from the books).

That said, the extended, graphic torture of Theon is 100% my least favorite part of ANY Song of Ice and Fire book, so...

 

[Lenny]

Are you sure about that death?

*BOOK SPOILERS*

Spoiler

The only deaths I can remember from the episode are Hoster at the start, and the men hunting Theon towards the end. Seeing as Hoster is dead by the end of ASoS anyway, I can only guess that you're confusing one of the Bolton men who died for Bolton's *******. I don't want to spoil who is playing him, if you don't know, but I will say that he's still alive - the men who died were just your run-of-the-mill lackeys.

I can't think of any other deaths that occurred in the episode, particularly ones that would impact on the story from ADWD.

 

[Ursa major]

The storyline is completely different in the books. I don't know how spoiler sensitive I should be here, so for now, suffice to say that all this happens in A Dance with Dragons, not A Storm of Swords, which among other things means that the context is totally different. (And in the book, when he does try his early escape from the lengthy torture sequences, he is taken back.) Plus a major character in aDwD and going forward dies in this episode, which will inevitably have massive consequences for the direction the show takes (and mark it as significantly different from the books).

To be fair, I thought** a lot of the torture mentioned in AdwD was Theon recalling it. The show is showing rather than telling some of this, isn't it?


** - It's about time I re-read that book.

 

[Brian G Turner]

*BOOK SPOILERS*

Spoiler

I thought the man leading the hunt who was killed was Ramsey Bolton? Or am I getting characters confused - again?

 

[Lenny]

Stealth edit

Curse your stealth edit!

Spoiler

Ramsay has been cast, and we've seen him (although he's not yet been named), but he's not the one who died.

Google him and you'll see the actor who has been cast, but it might spoil things.

 

[Lady of Winterfell]

To be fair, I thought** a lot of the torture mentioned in AdwD was Theon recalling it. The show is showing rather than telling some of this, isn't it?


** - It's about time I re-read that book.

I don't remember that. To my memory, it was happening as we were reading it? Apparently I need a re-read as well. If I have some time today I will find my book and see what I can discover.

 

[Brian G Turner]

Curse your stealth edit!

Right, now I'm confused. I thought the person doing the torturing and the hunt were RB.

 

[Lenny]

Right, now I'm confused. I thought the person doing the torturing and the hunt were RB.

*BOOK SPOILERS, SHOW SPOILERS (INCLUDING CASTING)*

Spoiler

In the books, Ramsay is the one who captured Theon and torched Winterfell, and he is the one responsible for the torture.

Iwan Rheon was cast as Ramsay (look back at the press releases from the past year, and his Wikipedia and IMDB profiles), and he's the guy who was sweeping up, and the one who saved Theon from the hunters.

In the books, Ramsay is a really horribly guy. Whilst it's all very well reading that sort of thing, it needs to be shown in the television show. We know that Ramsay takes perverse pleasure in torture, and hunting people down, and that Theon becomes Ramsay's pet, Reek... but we've never actually read the events.

It's pure speculation on my part, but it makes sense that Ramsay is playing a game with Theon. What better way to break him completely (and start his transformation into Reek) than to have him tortured, rescue him with promises of taking him to his sister, and then reveal that he's been running around Westeros with the monster who has made his life living hell?

It's either that, or Winterfell was taken on Roose Bolton's orders, Theon is being tortured on Roose Bolton's orders, and Ramsay, who hasn't been acknowledged or given any power yet (so he's still Ramsay Snow), has helped Theon escape so he can play with him himself, and prove something to his father.

Either way, the guy who killed the hunters is Ramsay.

 

[Mouse]

Having not read ADWD... so Theon doesn't die then.

S'alright, I've had plenty of opportunity to read the book but it's still sitting on my shelf. One day... one day...

 

[ctg]

I love this and I cannot wait to see "blank" replies filling the thread. But I really hope you guys don't go to talk in that other thread. Seriously.

 

[Brian G Turner]

Cheers, Lenny. That explains a few things. I hope.

 

[Nerds_feather]

Are you sure about that death?

*BOOK SPOILERS*

Spoiler

The only deaths I can remember from the episode are Hoster at the start, and the men hunting Theon towards the end. Seeing as Hoster is dead by the end of ASoS anyway, I can only guess that you're confusing one of the Bolton men who died for Bolton's *******. I don't want to spoil who is playing him, if you don't know, but I will say that he's still alive - the men who died were just your run-of-the-mill lackeys.

I can't think of any other deaths that occurred in the episode, particularly ones that would impact on the story from ADWD.

Yes, I am sure.

Spoiler

it's Ramsay Snow, who clearly dies in the episode, and is a major character in aDwD.

Unless...