What is the purpose of dialogue?

Also, an interesting note to consider: what is the best-selling fantasy of all time? LotR.

It's full of world-building and history.


And what's the biggest-selling fmodern fantasy series?

Wheel of Time.


It's full of history, races, mythology, setting, etc.


And what of the likes of Martin? Again, history, etc...
 
I never understand it when people say this. It scares me, in all honesty. As writers we should be flexible, able to write whatever the scene requires, whether that be pages and pages of dialogue or pages of narrative (as long as the narrative isn't static and is moving the plot forwards).

It makes me wonder if it's actually a division between readers and reader-writers. the reader-only people I've known read everything, every sentence - and they love it. Yet writers read and analyse, and it breaks the immersion of the story and leads them to spot errors and wonder about parts they would change.

In all honesty, when I did read them, I was just a reader - 'twas way back when, and I know I'm an impatient reader (who likes to revisit), but the same happened with The Sword of Truth series :)eek:), when I was a reader/writer. Zedd would expound for ages, especially about legends, and then everyone else did it as well, and I just got so bored...

I'm just re-reading the Dark Tower series, and I have to say King does his dialogue incredibly well, but has pages of descriptive stuff that go on a tad long, also. There are those who like detailed description and those who like detailed dialogue, and vice versa. Strangely enough, Ender's Game had a lot of dialogue, IIRC, but it was always short and snappy. (Goes off to find copy to see how well it did work...)
 
But think of your audience. Say you wrote something that many, many people loved (oh, the dream we all hope for, yet it's a fool's dream all the same) - think how many people would lap up every snippet you gave them. That's why Tolkien's history books on Middle Earth have sold so well, and his Silmarillion, etc. And there's a History of the Wheel of Time, too... and short stories set there...

When readers love something, they go nuts. The finest stories have that extra something in them that makes the world so loved by the masses. The place feels real. That's what description does for fans*.

Oh, blimey! I'm sending this topic off-topic. Sorry!!!






*Assuming you can write something that captures everyone's imagination. Sigh....
 
Sorry to contradict Brian, but the excessive dialogue is what made me give up WOT, at about book 3 or 4

Never a problem to disagree, but I haven't got as far as 3 or 4 anyway. :)

I remember I, Brian saying he loved that Jordan had written a throwaya line along the lines of "this named road became the Old Road for no reason anyone can remember". Yet... isn't that a line of superfluous narration in the days of "everything must be relevant"?

Not at all - it established a connection between the people and their landscape, and foreshadowed the importance of the region as one with an ancient history relevant to the book.

Now, if he had included a history of the road, that would have been extraneous - but as a single sentence, it works well - because of brevity. There are a lot of sentences in those first 50 pages of Eye of the World that do this very effectively.

EDIT: And going back to the original topic, I think this applies equally to dialogue - saying as little as possible to most effect. "Clarity and pace". It doesn't mean to say you can't have a lot of dialogue, but simply to keep in mind what the characters are talking about and why, and make it as effective as possible. IMO! :)
 
think how many people would lap up every snippet you gave them... Assuming you can write something that captures everyone's imagination.

That's the trick, isn't it? If I'm bored, I'll skip or dump the whole thing. If I'm gripped, I may skip to get to the end quicker, but then I'll reread again and again and ...
 
But that's just it -- I don't think these things *do* capture everyone's imagination.

People have their own tastes and while GRRM, for example, is outrageously popular, I don't enjoy his books -- I have no ambition to write books like that.

There's nothing wrong with writing books with masses of myth and backstory but they're not for everyone. Ditto, I suppose, dragging this back to springs' original thought, books with tonnes of dialogue.

(Really -- what prizzley said!)
 
Yes, definitely a matter of preference. Something else I always skip, even if it's just two sentences, are songs and poems in books. I'm just not interested. And I wouldn't ever be interested in reading through LOTR's history books. Plot and characters and definitely dialogue are what I prefer.
 
But whether you like GRRM and/or Tolkien and/or Jordan, you can't deny that they're huuuuge sellers. I certainly have a preference for some of them and not others, yet I acknowledge that the authors all do something that a vast percentage of the population love.

But not every book will agree with everyone.

And yes, it's writing that great book that's the key - without good characters, plot, setting, and writing, no one can ever stand a chance at loving what you've written. For me, characters are what makes a story. I've read some heavily world-buildinged books and put them down because I can't get into the characters.


Now, if he had included a history of the road, that would have been extraneous - but as a single sentence, it works well - because of brevity. There are a lot of sentences in those first 50 pages of Eye of the World that do this very effectively.
Point taken. But where is the limit? History is important because it's made the places and characters who they are, shaping their upbringing. Sometimes it's important to know a place's history to fully understand a character's motivations (though not an info-dumped piece about stuff that just halts the pace and action).

As with a lot of things, the key is in deciding which is needed and which is not. And in writing history in small chunks here and there throughout the story so readers aren't bogged down in having to learn too much.

Edit: Hmmm. perhaps it all comes down to what is natural. If the history in the story feels natural and not forced, and it's well-placed... :)
 
What I have trouble with, too, is revealing details about my POV characters. I usually stay with one or two and so to avoid "You know, Bob . . ." syndrome.

In my WIP, my POV character is the only human-alien hybrid in her town--in an era where traditional racism is a thing of the past, this poor girl is subject to a new kind. In a scene where she and her (only) friend are talking alone in the woods, she admits that she always thought herself so ugly and starts to cry. Her friend, who's a bit of a goth girl, hugs her and tells her that she always thought that her green skin was beautiful.

Is that abusing my poor readers or a good use of dialogue?
 
@Leisha: You can't argue with success. Game of Thrones fever has hit the world, so without being GRRM-wannabes I think it is instructive to read him again with a clear eye to what's going on there.

I have no problem giving the masses what they want. :D
 
@Leisha: You can't argue with success. Game of Thrones fever has hit the world, so without being GRRM-wannabes I think it is instructive to read him again with a clear eye to what's going on there.

I have no problem giving the masses what they want. :D
That's my idea with Jordan. I read past book one even though I didn't really feel inclined to because my partner bugged me to and I realised that the WoT is the biggest-selling modern-day fantasy series, and I have to understand what makes something so great if I want to learn from it. I'm so glad I DID read past book one, now, because I really see what so many people love about it. It's just so all-consuming and amazing and real. And the many surprises and shocks in the books just leave me feeling so much emotion... and the characters do things to each other, and say things, that leave me annoyed, or shocked, or happy, or something - which means I'm invested and the characters have got to me. They're real, flawed, and often misunderstand each other because of their upbringing and the way the world separates out genders, etc.
 
I think you've hit on it. Thick descriptions, sometimes messed up relationships, misunderstandings.

I think I've got a messed up family--but look at the Lannisters. But it wouldn't be so bad to be rich and powerful. So wish fulfillment while showing that you have something in common. Hard to put my finger on it exactly.

Bernard Cornwell once said in an interview that he's writing for that truck driver or schoolteacher or plumber who wants to get away from the world for an hour between supper and crashing in bed. Tolkien first found popularity among fellow academics who wanted an escape from grading papers and doing mind-numbing research. Middle Earth was their refuge. Then the paperback edition came out. :D
 

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