Character Sheets - Planning the Perfect Character Arc

Blimey! I need to stop making posts. Lately all I seem to do is rile people up. I've been so happy that I was back to posting here, because for ages I couldn't come here because it was taking up my writing time. But then I missed everyone here, so I returned even though I've been advised that I shouldn't use my time this way rather than being productive and working on my story or trying to make websites so I can afford to live. But my stupid limitations are hindering me. I have an illness, which I'm not using as an excuse. I hate it, but there's little I can do abou it. Anya has the same one, yet she's not been advised to limit her daily work as I have done. I wish I didn't have to limit myself, tbh. It's supposed to help me get better in the long run, yet I love writing and speaking to everyone here, so I keep pushing the time I'm on the PC even though it affects me.

For the second time today, I apologise if I come off as anything other than just voicing my opinion on the way I work. I like you, Springs. You seem level-headed and I like readng your posts. I'd never try to force my ways on someone else, because we all write differently. I enjoyed reading what you had to say, and I just responded as occured to me.

I hate having to explain myself, because it embarrasses me how I am, but I only have brief minutes when I'm alllowed on the PC. It's annoying and it gets to me, and it means that if I start a thread or see something I have to reply to, I have to rush to write what I want. And lately I'm seeing that it's having an effect on my posts and how curt they seem when in fact I'm just eager to answer yet I know I should be off resting on the couch. I don't mean to be curt. But I also notice that my posts sometimes don't make sense, or don't fit with the quote I'm replyig to. I just tried to ignore that and reply anyway. I shouldn't have.

And I'm horrendous at working quickly and thinking clearly (my illness really affects me and my memory, which is why I'm not allowed on the computer for extended times).

I think I need to stop posting for a while. Writing is the best use of my time. I can't upset people when writing my novel. I'm sorry I upset you, Springs.
 
Don't worry about it. I'm cool, I just didn't want it to get into a tit for tat. :) take care of yourself - you started an interesting thread, they always get the odd misunderstanding. :)

Ps that really is my last post here, though. Time to hear what others think!
 
No, I need to leave this place. The reactions to my latest posts in GWD and the Jordan forum show me that I can't do what I've been doing. I rest on the couch in between time on the PC but just keep checking my watch to see if it's time I can be back here replying to everyone's posts. I get so impatient and frustrated instead of restng like I'm supposed to. But with rushing my replies I'm not being myself. I'm a gentle person, I always want to make people happy in life, and I hate that I'm coming across as arrogent or horrid or something. Tbh I can't stop crying right now. I love this place, but I can't do it, reply in the time I have. Posts take time to reply to, and I can't give them the time they deserve, and I'm making myself look horrid. Even my writing has been suffering lately because of my divided attentions, and writing is difficult enough for me when most days I feel like I'm wading through cotton wool.

I think the advice I've been ignoring - that I should not do anything other than write and make websites in the time I have available - is best. I'm not saying this to get pity, and I'm not being dramatic. I've been going against health advice by posting here. I don't want to look like I'm posting some sob story. I'm just explaining myelf. As it is, I've hardly been writing because I've been back here so much in the time I'm allowed to do activities.

Please, everyone keep posting in here regardless. I don't want to have spoiled this thread. I really wish you all the best in your writing.
 
TheDustyZebra said:
Anya, your scrapbook is awesome! ...and I agree with prizzley, if I tried to do that, I'd never get any writing (or anything else) done!

Oh wait, that's me now, without the scrapbook.

Hmm.
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Honestly it takes no more than two hours usually or no longer than an evening for my otherworld fantasy - the latter tends to be decorating my dining room wall because I hand draw things I can't find a Google image for. (I have 0 artistic talent the drawings are embarrasing).

I add to/takeaway from the scrapbook as I go along with the story. My detectives can get raunchy so I keep them on the computer away from the kids. I only use PC paint and nothing more creative than resizing pictures is involved. Finding the right pictures of John Barrowman to be Joe did take longer than it usually does. (He's useful because he does so much of everything and looks so different in different roles). Oh and one with a fully dressed Melinda Messenger took awhile. And Moira Stuart looks annoyingly too young to be my character even if they are the same age.

I find it saves time in the long run because I don't forget eye colour etc it keeps it consistent. Having a fully 3D model for my characters just seems to keep the story straight but I work well visually.
 
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Best of luck, Leisha. Take care of yourself, and I hope your writing goes where you want to take it. :)
 
So far I've just been going with bios of characters, but I ought to try writing from their perspective. Seems like that's where I learn most about my characters anyway.
 
Leisha said:
No, I need to leave this place.
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Come back here this instant!

No seriously. I think there's a very slight misunderstanding about what character development is all about, and people are coming at the subject from different angles.

Let's be clear: there is no "right" way. Gary/Mary Stu characters are common and enjoyed, and they work for the stories they are written for.

However, if you want to try a few tricks, there are a few good ones to really test yourself with.

When I read about character motivation and development in Save the Cat it was a revelation for me - Leisha, PM me your address and I'll lend you my copy. I think there are a couple of things in there I think will make you go "wow!" in terms of character development.

And if not, it's only a very short book anyway. :)

I will not be denied. :cool:
 
My favourite ever character is a 2D Mary Sue character and I don't care. Her only fault is she doesn't get along with nasty puritans. But she is intelligent and gutsy.
 
Leisha, if this site is taking up too much of your time and energy, then you should definitely do whatever you have to do to take care of yourself, even if that means leaving.

But don't leave because you think that people think you are arrogant or horrid! We love you here, and we would never for a fraction of a second think that of you.

As for ignoring your advice, I often feel that people are ignoring me, too, and I think a lot of people feel that they are being ignored here a lot of the time. In threads on subjects like this one, very often people are more eager to share their own experiences than to pick up new ideas from other people. And we're all seeking validation for the way we do things ourselves, so suggestions about how we might do things better don't always go down well. It's nothing to do with people not liking you. Truly.

But if you are going through an ultra-sensitive period (I've been there and know what it's like!) then yes, take a vacation from us for a while. Though if you stay away too long, we'll miss you.

I learn about my characters through writing multiple drafts, and also by writing scenes that I'll never use -- though I usually think that they will be used when I'm writing them. But I internalize it all, rather than writing a character sheet. By the time I've been through a few drafts, I believe I could answer any question about that character, off the cuff and without having to look anything up, from things as small as their favorite color to things as large as their deepest trauma.

But that's just how I do it. It's not the only way.


.
 
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Thank you for the replies, I, Brian and Teresa and BetaWolf (and springs, for that lovely PM). I wasn't after such kind replies, but they mean more than I could explain.

I'm not going to rush this post, since rushing is what's getting me in so much bother lately.

To be honest, for a while I've been feeling like my posts are coming off badly. I told myself otherwise, then rushed to compose tons of replies during my allocated "activity time" so I could post them in one big chunk before my next rest time. But lately some of my posts are being taken the wrong way, making people give heated or upset replies (which shocks me because I meant no ill), and I can't rely on people knowing me here and realising that I don't mean anything bad. I've never attacked anyone personally, and I never will.

So I got so upset because I've been realising that I shouldn't post here as much as I do, yet I love coming here. It stops me from writing, but I've missed this place. I stay indoors 99% of the time, so this place is where my friends are. And suddenly it dawned on me that I shouldn't keep coming here if my hectic replies were seeming so bad, which got to me - as well as the fact that I've got tons of health things hurting me all the time and that this resting on-off thing is getting to me and leading to rushed posts and rushed writing in my novel... which makes me look like I'm complaining too much, I know. Usually I don't let it get to me. Anyway, I hate that my replies here aren't seeming as jokey and light as they used to be before I started having to rest all the time and rush replies with barely time to edit before posting the next reply. Yet I can't go back to the days when I'd stay here for hours regardless of how ill I'd feel.

As it was, a while ago I'd had to stop posting in Critiques because I noticed my tendency to misread vital explanations that altered a reader's whole oulook, and therefore my critique was off. Rushing posts really doesn't help anyone. And I can't partake in the Writing Group because I can't spend the time needed to critique people's work properly anymore*, and reading walls of text on the screen affects me.


If I do post, I will have to stick to tiny ones in light threads, or just reply to odd posts here and there rather than tons in a thread.


And - blimey - I, Brian. That's very, very kind of you. I'd love to say yes, but I'm not sure I would want to take a chance on losing your book. We have a post problem here in these flats. Not everything gets delivered that should, including various important forms and expensive uni text books that Seph needed... Heh. Maybe the drug dealers above us are stocking up on books to help their intelligence. I'd be all for it if it made them more intelligent...





*Not that I mean in the "I want to post up my writing" sense, since luckily my partner's excellent at that and will do so without me having to rush a critique on his in return; I just meant in the helping out kind of way.


------------------------------------------

And now normal service can resume for this thread...
 
Teresa Edgerton said:
As for ignoring your advice, I often feel that people are ignoring me, too, and I think a lot of people feel that they are being ignored here a lot of the time.
.
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This is why we really need a "like" button.

There have been so many times when I've really enjoyed a post, but can't really add anything to the conversation so generally don't post.

I often hope everyone here realises that just because no one has responded to something specifically, that it was never valued.

I believe there's a "like" function in the new forum software being developed - but there are still a lot of bugs in that system and a clean release hasn't been given a date yet.

Sooner rather than later, though, as then people will be able to show their appreciation for useful posts which otherwise go unremarked because there's little to add.


Leisha said:
And - blimey - I, Brian. That's very, very kind of you. I'd love to say yes, but I'm not sure I would want to take a chance on losing your book.
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Well, give me a relative's address or something - somewhere you know it'll be delivered. I really do insist, and I have my notes I made from it anyway. :)
 
:eek:

Blimey... My family are down in Cumbria, so it would seem a bit pointless to send it there. Hmmm. I'll have to see if it's okay to get it sent to Seph's folks'. I'll ask them when I see them next. Thank you!

----------------------

I've wished for a Like button here for a long time. It's nice to hear one will be along soonish.

Well, I better log off. I'm long overdue to vegetate on the sofa. At least Jordan* keeps me company. (I'm not supposed to even do that much when resting, but I go stir crazy otherwise!)





*I logged back in to edit my post and make clear, for those who think of a certain Katie Price, that I am not hugging her on my sofa. Okay? I'm not having anyone mistake that this time.
 
As others have mentioned I tend to put a lot of work into my secondary characters. I don't use character sheets so much but I develop pretty complex backstories for characters and I'll focus on a couple of specific crucial personality traits that tease out the remainder. For the more important primary and secondary characters I actually develop their characters by doing psychology tests as that character.

And of course character development plays a big part in my narrative planning. I use traditional dramatic structure which is mostly about character arcs and conflict, and I do these for all my major characters.

What really surprises me is how much your work improves and how much better scenes are once your secondary characters have a real voice, and how little you need to actually show to establish those distinct characters. It certainly adds a lot to the story, I think.
 
To be honest I never think of them as secondary characters or minor characters I just think of them as characters.

My heroine when it comes to writing characters has to be Dolly Parton she can tell a tale and round out a character so quickly. I spent ages studying her songs to see how she did it. Her methods of hitting you right between the eyes are really useful for bringing to light a character you might only have once in the book.
 
I've had secondary characters suddenly develop into primary characters, and even walk-ons (I thought) who said to me "Put me in the story. I'm not satisfied just delivering this one piece of news" and who very quickly developed personalities.

Some of us work best putting everything down on paper in an organized way, and some of us carry a lot of it around in our heads, leaving a great deal of the work to our subconscious minds (who may be totally organized, for all we know, and pull things out of their neat little file cabinets at the right moment, or who may take so long to let us in on their secrets because they have to run around sifting through heaps and heaps of clutter -- how will we ever know if it's all going on where the conscious mind never goes?). Either way, the conscious organization, or the leave it to the subconscious, can produce characters who are complex yet consistent. It's a question of what works best with the particular aptitudes and quirks of our individual thought processes.

But while I don't do character sheets, I do put down in writing every little passing thought about anything, if I think I might use it later. I have hundreds of pages of that sort of thing, scattered and shuffled together so that some of these notes are very hard indeed to find when I want them. (Which may be a clue that my subconscious mind is a lot like that little old woman that Sarah meets in the junkyard in "Labyrinth.)

Anyway, I hope to get some of this better organized now that I have my new home office.
 
I said:
Leisha, have you read Blake Snyder's "Save the Cat"? [...] One that comes to mind is that you must show at the start what the character wants....
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I can see that in a film, which is a short form** compared to today's size of novel, that sort of thing is necessary, otherwise the film would be half over before that "want" was identified. However, I see it as too limiting in a medium where we get to "see" characters' thoughts (or, at least, the thoughts of PoV characters). Unless what is meant by "what the character wants" is just something thrown in there, something which is either achieved or is found to be not what the character wanted at all (if only they'd thought a bit longer and harder about it), just to get the film out of the starting gate. (I'm guessing not, but only because I'm assuming the "want" is the one that initially dominates or defines the character; otherwise, why bother to capture it?)

Okay, it's generally better not to have loads of completely indecisive characters, but I'm not sure I'd want to have to capture, in any sort of detail, the fleeting wants of my PoV characters just to make them match the very different requirements of characters in a wholly different medium (one where their various episodes of introspection can only be hinted at, and briefly at that). Let them be themselves***, whether focused on a target or not, as long as they're interesting enough during the process by which the reader is drawn into the story. One thing novels can do - which, in films, is harder - is to give readers the time to take the measure of the characters, even the initially somewhat directionless ones.

None of this is to say that it's wrong to have a cast of characters who each have some dominating or defining goal in mind, only that requiring them to do so seems overly prescriptive, in my opinion.



** - Even when a large novel is adapted to a full 550 minutes or so of mini-series time, whole story lines go missing and some characters are either omitted entirely or are brought together as new composite characters. (Imagine what A Game of Thrones would look like if compressed into 90 or 120 minutes. :eek:)

*** - Their interesting selves, that is, because we wouldn't want them to be boring, whatever their goals and plans.
 
I started taking my writing seriously when I was playing table top RP's so I am very familier with that type of CS and how to utilize one while writing.

I kind of like Lisha's better. More organic maybe.

Sometimes I kick myself for purging all the RP stuff off my comp (I never had physical copies) because some of it would have been very useful to have while writing other things.

Loads to think about here. I'll have to tag this for my Writing Help bookmark folder.
 
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