Is God real in game of thrones?

[Boaz]

canterdaryl, great topic. You stated that you do not mind spoilers, but I'm going to ignore that and try to preserve the wonder of the story (you've seen the first two and a half seasons and are still reading AGOT) for you while still enlightening you regarding God/god. Also, I'll try to make my own theories seperate from ASOIAF fact.

ZombieWife, Nerd's Feather, Ursa and the rest have said pretty much all that can be said on the topic because the story is still in progress and GRRM has just not given us all the information we need.

If your question is "Does God (an uncreated creator) exist in A Song of Ice and Fire?", then I'm pretty sure the answer is no. If your question is "Do gods (supernatural entities of varying levels of power) exist?", then I'm pretty sure the answer is yes.

For a fantasy tale, GRRM does not include many instances of the supernatural. The most instances occur in emotional bonds shared by humans and animals. The northerners call this warging. I don't think that GRRM intends for this power to be caused by any God or gods. I think he intends it just to be a part of the magical fabric of his world. I think GRRM intends this to be natural... each person can use this power responsibly or irresponsibly, for good or for evil.

As you've seen in the first three seasons, the followers of the god R'hllor display supernatural powers... birthing shadows, divination, resisting poison, and resurrecting the dead. Maybe GRRM also intends this to be natural and subject to a person's use for good or ill... but I don't know of any good uses for shadow assassins.

There are other occurrences of supernatural powers... Quaithe seemingly appears and disappears, Dany was unburnt by the fire, Dany hatched three dragons, and the warlocks of the House of the Undying showed visions to Dany. There are other examples in books after AGOT.

In particular, three of the four religions of the Seven Kingdoms have not shown us anything supernatural. Regarding these three, the religion of the Dornish is not really revealed, the Faith of the Seven is notably absent of any power, while the power of the Drowned God can be explained away. Only the religion of the Children of the Forest and the First Men, the belief in the Old Gods, seems to have any supernatural ability... but it may not actually come from a deity.

Actually, the first example of supernatural activity comes from the very beginning when the Others kill Ser Waymar and raise him as a zombie.

I would not think of the cosmology of ASOIAF as a monotheistic. It does not give us an uncreated creator as Tolkien does in The Silmarillion or as Lewis does in The Chronicles of Narnia.

Nor do I think GRRM is going for a pantheon of deities like ancient Greece. There seem to be at least two deities with powers... R'hllor and The Other, but I cannot say if there are more than this.

Personally, I think GRRM is headed towards a dualistic theology of an eternal struggle between R'hllor and The Other. If you watched LOST, then you'll recognize this as Jacob versus The Man in Black.

But let me state that I do not know this for a fact. It's just my impression.... at this point.

I may change my mind after the next book.

Edit: Let me add a bit more...

I think one of GRRM's major themes is our own accountability. The story began by revolving around Eddard and his conflicting desires to do justice and love mercy. Eddard strives mightily to love and provide for his family and his people. It is the very fact that Eddard strove to be accountable that led him to...

The Lannisters are presented across the board as evil. Beautiful, stylish, witty, and accomplished... yet evil. GRRM begins to change this by inserting Tyrion chapters... by giving us the ugly side (Tyrion), he begins to give us their beauty (nobility in caring for the weak). We continue to see a different side of the Lannisters when Jaime meets Brienne.

Stannis is another striking character regarding accountability. Davos and Melisandre provide him with multiple choices for good and evil... honor and disgrace.

I think, I repeat, I think that GRRM may be applying this to the deities R'hllor and The Other. Are they good and evil? Or are they as susceptible to emotions and motivations as we are? Do even god have to be accountable for their actions? Can they be held liable for the actions of their followers?

If R'hllor is good, how can Melisandre do so much evil?

Craster claims he's a godly man, but many call it appeasing the devil.

 

[Gumboot]

Simply put, as others have said, there is irrefutable evidence that the supernatural does indeed exist in Martin's world. Thus far in the books, there as been absolutely no explanation or information revealing the source of this supernatural power, and absolutely zero evidence that any sort of deities actually exist, let alone the specific deities worshipped by various cultures.

But of course, just because there hasn't been any evidence doesn't mean they don't exist, or doesn't mean there won't be evidence forthcoming. My own gut feeling is that Martin will deliberately leave it open, never providing any evidence of Gods but never refuting them either.

 

[Judderman]

Are there any magicians/magic wielders in ASOIAF so far who are not religious? Witches? Alchemists? Warlocks of Qarth? I suspect all these have links to religion expect perhaps alchemists who may not truly practice magic. If there are any magicians without links to religion then perhaps we can better say whether the Gods exist/have an influence. I don't think Daenerys is herself wielding magic.
It seems to me that those who are fanatical to Gods may get magical powers. Not that all with magical powers decide they need to follow a religion. Most Fantasy series seem to imply there is some influence by "The Gods" (except I don't recall It mentioned in LOTR).

 

[Ursa major]

It depends whether you mean people who are specifically invoking magic or just benefitting when magic occurs.

The second has definitely occurred. The creators of the wildfire did not use magic to make it more effective; it just was. And as far as I can recall, Dany did not call on magic to hatch her eggs (and save herself from the flames), but those two, magical, effects obviously happened.

More pertinately, perhaps, Mel is and has been trying to invoke magic, at least some of the time, and she has noticed the increase in the magical effects. But in the past, in those cases where those effects were absent, she also used trickery: in spite of her apparent faith, she was aware that some of the things she did were not real magic (and yet she will have called on her god as part of the show).

If Mel's call to her god required a trick in the past, the fact that the trick is no longer required (because magic now does the job) suggests to me that the god is not** now responsible; the increase of the power of magic in that world is.


** - Unless a dreaming god has now awoken....

 

[Judderman]

Is there any explanataion of the cause of the increase of the power of magic? Milankovitch cycles?

 

[Judderman]

Is magic just more prevalent/powerful in winter?

 

[Ursa major]

Some have suggested that the dragons hatching is the cause; others have suggested that the dragons hatching is simply evidence of an increase in magic. I think I may have speculated that the Others appearing is evidence, but that can't be recent; otherwise for whom was Craster leaving his male babies? (Besides, the Others are present in the prologue of AGoT, so we can't have seen the ultimate cause, and may never do so unless Bran sees it through a heart tree at the relevant point in the past.)

As for winter being the cause, these come and go (just not every "year"). The adults around at the start of AGoT will have seen at least one previous winter. I'm not sure how far back the previous very long and hard winter was, but in any case, the first few books were not set in winter.