The Dragon Reborn (Book 3) - Discussion Thread WITH SPOILERS

[Erin99]

I thought I'd keep up tradition and start a thread before Hoopy gets her book. So, here we are!

Book three sees Rand... well, mostly absent. In his place, Perrin and a few others have chance to shine. We see old places and new as characters clash, and we finally meet one of my favourite races, the Aile. Also, in the background, one legend tells of a way to prove who is the Dragon Reborn... which leads to another epic finale that throws old expectations out the window.

*dun dun duuuuh*

 

[HoopyFrood]

It arrived in the post this afternoon, I'm 70 pages in

 

[Erin99]

WHOA!!! I'd just logged out, so I had to log back in to post! WOW!!! Great news! I'll have to peep at the book now and see where you are.

 

[HoopyFrood]

I was hoping it would turn up today. I'm looking forward to seeing people other than Rand for a while (and he seems even more bonkers than usual, so no great loss )

 

[HoopyFrood]

Blimey, in the space of one chapter the tugging on the braid has exploded. Hardly a mention of it in two and a bit books and now suddenly constant! Jordan seems to latch onto on action and run wild with it, and it isn't helped by the fact that he does use actions as a way to show emotion a great deal. And I know characters should react to things, but I don't need to know that they blinked in surprise or sniffed or shook their fist at everything.

I complain a lot, I know. I am largely enjoying the books, honest!

Also, 183 pages in. In fact, just about to start The Gray Man.

 

[Erin99]

Okay, I will give you that one. Jordan *does* have people react with actions a lot, and I remember thinking the braid pulling wasn't so noticeable in the first books. (Though Seph doesn't have a problem with any of Jordan's actions.) Jordan seems to taper them off and then remember about them, though someone here did say that in later books Ny stops... oh, I was gonna shorten it to "pulling", but I think the "braid" is needed or else it means something entirely different...

Glad to hear you're still enjoying it regardless. Maybe that's how you know whether you're truly "into" it - whether you can ignore the actions and still love what's going on?


Ooooh, you should be up to (or past!!!) that new/old character's POV... Said person has some great, funny storylines in the series.

Oh, and can you see why Jordan wisely held off POVs from rand in this book? Yeah, he's a bit too... wild... right now, the same as that other character was too... different to show POVs from until now.

 

[HoopyFrood]

Yes, an hour on the dot after that post I reached his first. I tried to edit my post but I wasnt quick enough

But yes, read a couple of his now. Now 22, which I had a flick through before I went out, and it looks like an important one for Eg!

 

[Erin99]

Grrr! Weird night, last night. My legs itched, and my arms, and an elbow, and my scalp - and the skin had raised and bubbled and reddened... I've only had that once before, years ago, and I never knew what caused it! I took antihistamines and put on Germaline, but it itched all night and gave me nightmares about illness! Bah! My knees are still itchy and red today. Weird. Possibly an allergic reaction to Seph's new clothes that I washed mine with??? Oh, too weird!


Anyway, you'll have read the Eg chapter now - and what a chapter! I'd been waiting for that but I didn't think I'd get to see it, cos, well, you know...


But yay! It raised some interesting ideas, reading that. How much is truth and how much is fantasy in those Arches?

Just had a peek at some of your later chapters. Well, I started to read book nine last night, but my brain wuoldn't take any of it in, so I skipped to look over your book instead. I dunno how far you've got, but there's some interesting things coming up!

Oh, and I was wrong! It's the next Book Perrin shines in, though he is in this one in parts.

 

[HoopyFrood]

Sounds like my skin most of the time. I practically claw at my legs all the time because they're so constantly itchy.

Yeah, past dear Eggy now. It was interesting, but part of me was like, really, every one was about Rand? I know they've got a history but I would like her to stop being so defined by that all the time now (which is starting to happen with her anger about previous things that happened to her and their new...mission).

Also, so far, I've realised that the entire world is full of pretty woman, "in a way" (can't believe that was an actual way someone used to describe someone else), very pretty women or of course, the most beautiful woman anyone's every met

Anyyyyhoos, now onto 28, A Way Out.

 

[Erin99]

Ditto! I've had psoriasis for years, though lately my dermatologist recommended something that seems to be keeping it at bay, which is nice! No more making myself bleed!


Anyway, my guess is that every one was about Rand because he seems to be a vital part of what's going on, and she *was* all but betrothed to him since birth. She's conflicted right now, eyeing up other men since she's still young, yet she got so used to the idea that she would be Rand's...

What I found interesting was that she was the Amerlyn! And she chooses the... green? And that thirteen can turn someone to the shadow. And that Rand is captured and sentenced to be Gentled. Made me wonder if any of them will be true, or if the whole thing is fictional.

So you'll have seen Tel'aran'rhhoid then. I found that interesting, and I was very eager to see where he takes it from there.

And my guess is that Jordan doesn't like making people ugly and wants to find their plus-points. It's very sweet, but I'm not sure I'd go about it the way he did - I'd rather describe a character and let the reader make up their mind about whether said person was pretty or not. But yeah, even Jordan's men are mostly good-looking.




Ooh!!! A Mat chapter for you now, anyway. This is where his POV starts to get fun. You really see his differences from now on.

 

[HoopyFrood]

Out of everyone I want her to really rise and become powerful (or like in the Third Arch even) because it will be satisfying to see her grow so much.

But yeah, all this thirteen stuff, and what was stolen as well, I'm trying to work out what it could all be for...

Yes, the New Person chapters are good, though part of me was like "really?" when he took down two of the best trainee swords people with a stick. While barely healthy. But at the same time it was quite awesome.


Speaking of Ajahs, been meaning to ask. Which do you think you'd be? So Green love men and are the Battle Ajahs, Red hate men, Blue get themselves all up in people's affairs, White do the opposite, focusing on philosophy and justice and jazz, Browns are all about the books and history and...I feel like I knew Yellow but forget now. And Greys I don't yet know.

I'd be tempted by Blue but I think I'd end up a Brown

 

[Erin99]

Hoops, I'm off to rest for an hour and a bit, but I will be straight back! I'd love to discuss Ajahs!!!

And yes, I remember thinking I'd love to be a blue, roaming the county and searching for lost, hidden knowledge. Yet that ink stain on Verin's nose when we met her was so appealling!!! Oh, aha!!! Here's the old thread, which I took part in even though I'd never read the books: http://www.sffchronicles.co.uk/forum/39188-what-ajah-would-you-be.html And here's the updated link for the quiz, since the page had moved: http://quizfarm.com/quizzes/new/quillmaiden86/which-ajah-are-you-best-suited-for/


And Mat... is Ta'veren. His thing is all about luck and defeating the odds. You'll see he's... surprisingly good at it.

 

[HoopyFrood]

Haah, so many Browns here! (Not surprising). And now I know what Yellow and Grey do, too.

And also, thanks to you in that thread, henceforth Flame Face will be known as...Bill.

EDIT: what a surprise, I'm Brown! Closely followed by White, then Blue. Green is my lowest -- not a man fan or a Battle type, it seems

 

[Erin99]

Wow! Blimey! It's fun to read a thread where Seph and I were just friends. Such a long way I've come in five years (thanks Chrons, you awesome dating agency!).

So I took the test again, six years later yet no less insane, and apparently I've changed. Original results:

The Blue Ajah: 80%
The Brown Ajah: 75%
The Green Ajah: 65%
The White Ajah: 60%
The Gray Ajah: 55%
The Red Ajah: 55%
The Black Ajah: 35%
The Yellow Ajah: 25%

Today's results:

The Brown Ajah: 90%
The Gray Ajah: 65%
The Red Ajah: 55%
The Blue Ajah: 55%
The Green Ajah: 35%
The Yellow Ajah: 30%
The White Ajah: 25%
The Black Ajah: 15%

I seem to fit in with everyone else here now. Run, people of the Chrons! Run before you turn too bookish!!! We'll be Browns together, Hoops, with ink-stained snozzles!

Do you say "snozzles" down there, or is that just a Yorkshire thing?

So your personality is a bookish, head-in-the-clouds-yet-logical woman who loves roaming the country searching for lost knowledge? What an interesting mix!


So yeah, I still think being a Battle Ajah would be awesome (if you were strong in the One Power, that is - ooh yeah, you haven't seen any of the Power in battle yet, have you? Awesome stuff!), but I'll happily settle for a mix of Brown and Blue. Blue always appealed to me... Who wouldn't want to travel the land searching for rare books and knowledge lost since the Breaking, since all the old books about the Power were burned? If you're good, you get to learn cool weaves that everyone else has forgotten!

As for the other colours, they're not always so clear-cut. Some Reds don't actually hate men, but they know the danger they pose and so want to do "the right thing" by gentling them. The Yellows can do some amazing stuff too, though again, lots of knowledge in that art has been lost since the Breaking... Greys often sit beside rulers, but that doesn't appeal to me at all! (Why did I get that?!) I don't want to have influence. Hmmm, and Whites always seem so distant and cold, since they prefer logic and reason, and while they can have interesting POVs, I wouldn't want to be so detached. And the Blacks? Heh. You'll just be learning about them.


As for Flame Face Bill... heh. Well, I'll talk to you about that after you've finished the book.

One thing I will say about your other post is that Jordan's VERY good at foreshadowing. If you do decide to stay in for the long haul, there'll be rewards aplenty for you!

Now what was I rushing to say about New Person before I left? Ah yes! I shook my head at the fight scene - cool as it was, how can someone just recovering do that - but the more I read on, the more I see how they couldn't NOT have.

 

[HoopyFrood]

I'm from the Midlands, we know all the words from both North and South, helping us to blend effortlessly, muhahaha...

Yeah, shouldn't be hard on the Reds, some of them are no doubt dedicating to a very understandable cause. Though even in the books, whoever is overly angry or nasty is thought to likely take the Red, which is a bit mean.

We should make our own. Orange and Purple. Orange can wear whatever they want, not just dresses, have animal companions and could have men or women as their...warders

Something that I remembered earlier, that I'd completely forgotten...at the start of the second book Rand kept having massive feelings of being watched by moving eyes. Do we find out about that? or did I miss something and we've already found out?

The bit about Else and turning out she'd been seen and talking to people -- even zmat! -- despite supposedly been shipped off home days earlier was a scary surprise! Dun dun dun...

 

[Erin99]

Haha! Yes, I've only got the northern blood in me, which I find is more useful for understanding Scots than southerners. Seph says "Skek", and I'm like "No, you mean 'skeg'." And he's like, "No, I mean skek!' Weird word changes over the years...


I agree with you about the Reds in the book, though. I thought it was a bit of a Slytherinism in that everyone evil was a Red. Yet... lately I've been shown otherwise, which has been refreshing and surprising. And you get to see that Blacks are from all colours.

I'm up for creating our colours, though! The purples can take after Min and wear trousers (hmmm... trousers and periods in medieval times, though.... ), and they can study exciting things out in the world, lost knowledge and artifacts, and they seek to return the land to its former glory as in the age of Legends.


As for the eyes following Rand... there could be multiple reasons, though I'm not sure any one was listed. Darkfriends? Bill and his ability to visit Rand anywhere, even in his dreams? Other... things?


The Else scene I took a little differently to you, but I was shocked! I knew something was wrong when the girl appeared in the corridor after Eg and Ny went off searching, and something about her seemed... off. So I took it that days earlier Else had been expelled - the day she passed Mat in a huff - but then someone/thing pretended to be her days later, to force Eg and Ny down a path...

And who keeps prodding and herding all the Two Rivers folk? Even Mat, when he woke?

 

[Erin99]

Been thinking about your earlier question - who/what was watching Rand? - and I've settled on a very likely candidate. I don't think I can say more right now. It's not something Jordan ever addresses in his series, but you *can* work it out when you think about it.


Hmmm. An online source agrees with your assessment of the mysterious person pretending to be Else seeing Mat, too. I'm thinking it's wrong, though. I know Selene visits Mat, but I don't think he met anyone else weird...

I could be wrong!

 

[HoopyFrood]

Well here's a classic example of how I read words in the way I think they should be rather than what they really are.

Three books in and I've only JUST noticed that it's Emond's Field, not Edmond's! I would have sworn on anything that it was the latter. It's only because a flower was mentioned with the same name that I finally saw how it was really spelt.

Brains are weird.

(Also, though I know it's DarkFRIENDS, I am forever stuck saying DarkFIENDS).

 

[Erin99]

Congratulations, Hoopy!!! I was on about the third or fourth book when I said "Edmond's Field" to Seph, who was like, "Where?!"



Sometimes I still say it. I'm brilliant at mangling names. Ter-anleroids, Morgeese, Lewis Therin, Tar-verin, Mo-higden, Nyaveev, Samel, Ish-mail, Egween, Cam-lin, Faaalm, Mayne, Fail... (I could go on )

Seph and his friends, who go nuts for the WoT, get me to recite them all for a laugh.

I LOVE your Darkfiends, though! Brilliant!

 

[HoopyFrood]

I don't think I pronounce any word or name as it's supposed to. I even say Tear, as in what you do to paper, rather than what you cry. The most simple word of the lot and I still say it wrong!

And the...group fate thing (still can't spell it) I say as tav-een. I think the closest I come with Ny is Ny-iv. I don't even try to say the dream world name, my brain merely just recognises it's there. And yes, it's definitely Morgeese.

We should start a thread on WoT word butchering and the weird ways we say them