Please help me punctuate this sentence

[prizzley]

I struggle with connecting words followed by subordinate clauses - at least I think that's what I have here.

Is it:

1. We all wish to protect those we love, but, if you are to commit your life to her, you must trust her to share your cares and to keep your secrets. The two commas in quick succession wreck it for me.

2. We all wish to protect those we love, but if you are to commit your life to her, you must trust her to share your cares and to keep your secrets. This is my preferred option, but is it correct?

3. We all wish to protect those we love, but if you are to commit your life to her you must trust her to share your cares and to keep your secrets. Or does this work?

I'm tearing my hair out here, so any thoughts would be much appreciated.

 

[chrispenycate]

Personally I'd say it:- "We all wish to protect those we love but, if you are to commit your life to her, you must trust her to share your cares and to keep your secrets.", cutting off the subordinate clause and not breathing before the conjunction. I agree that the first example sounds a bit as if you're gasping, but the second isolates the actual continuity (but you must trust her to share your cares and to keep your secrets.) of the trust from the but.

Still, I don't thing this is a matter of absolute "right". Channelling your narrator, say it out loud – where do you stop to breath?

 

[prizzley]

A 4th alternative, Chris - that's all I needed! Seriously though,

Still, I don't thing this is a matter of absolute "right". Channelling your narrator, say it out loud – where do you stop to breath?

I like this advice. Thanks.

 

[Bowler1]

I like number 2 as well, but I'm no grammer expert so take that comment with a big pinch of salt.

I have played with the line a little and pulled a few words out which does change the inflection and to some extent the meaning as well, so you may not like my changes. See below.

We all wish to protect those we love and if you commit your life to her, you must trust her to share your cares and to keep your secrets.

 

[Stephen Palmer]

The thing to remember about punctuation is that it's music for words. Just say the sentence in your head and work out where the tune isn't working.

 

[Hex]

I had a problem like this a little while ago.

I agree with Chrispy that, for me, the breath comes before the subordinate bit ("if you are to commit your life to her"), which I would put between the commas. For me, that comma -- which disambiguates your sentence -- is more important than the one before 'but'.

I think technically you could put a semicolon in, if you wanted.

We all wish to protect those we love but, if you are to commit your life to her, you must trust her to share your cares and to keep your secrets

EDIT -- some people say that "but" provides its own mini pause in a sentence, I believe.

And though I'd happily read no.2, it throws me off a little because if you take out the bit between the commas, the sentence no longer makes sense.

 

[Ursa major]

The thing to remember about punctuation is that it's music for words. Just say the sentence in your head and work out where the tune isn't working.

And the music tells me that No.2, prizzley's preferred option, is okay.

(And Chris's - without a comma before the but - doesn't sound right in my head, because, try as I might, I can't prevent the tiniest of pauses remaining where the comma used to be.)


As an aside, I think you have plenty of leeway here, as the meaning is pretty clear** with or without the punctuation.



** - The clarity is helped by the first part of the sentence being all about "we" and the rest of it being about "you", "your" and her", leaving less scope for confusion.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

I struggle with connecting words followed by subordinate clauses - at least I think that's what I have here.

Is it:

1. We all wish to protect those we love, but, if you are to commit your life to her, you must trust her to share your cares and to keep your secrets. The two commas in quick succession wreck it for me.

2. We all wish to protect those we love, but if you are to commit your life to her, you must trust her to share your cares and to keep your secrets. This is my preferred option, but is it correct?

3. We all wish to protect those we love, but if you are to commit your life to her you must trust her to share your cares and to keep your secrets. Or does this work?

I'm tearing my hair out here, so any thoughts would be much appreciated.

And then there's option 5, and go for smooth music:

We all wish to protect those we love but if you are to commit your life to her, you must trust her to ....

For me, the comma before the but isn't sitting right. I'd be happy with either number two or, by preference, Chrispy's as well.

 

[Ursa major]

Sorry, springs, but the flow from 'love' to 'but' still isn't smooth in my head.



I think - as was implied by an earlier mention of a semi-colon - there are two different sentences here, joined by the but (as it were):

• We all wish to protect those we love.
• If you are to commit your life to her, you must trust her to share your cares and to keep your secrets.

My preference is to put a comma before a 'but' where it's being used as a conjunction, so when the "music" tells me there's a pause (however short), I'm easily persuaded that the comma is necessary.


(So much for not including reasons with critiques: two posts and a half-a-dozen or so paragraphs for one, not very controversial, punctuation mark. )

 

[AMB]

2 isn't good because, as Chrispy says, it breaks continuity of the core parts of the sentence.

We all wish to protect those we love, [...] you must trust her to share your cares and to keep your secrets.

I think Chrispy's answer was the best one, and what I would have said if he hadn't beaten me to it.

 

[Ursa major]

Except that the (larger) sentence is made up of two smaller ones joined together by a conjunction ('but'), so the comma isn't breaking any continuity.

 

[Lenny]

Can I throw in a sixth option?

My preference is for the first, as that's how I would write it, and then for Chrispy's (the comma after the "but" is crucial). Have you also considered:

We all wish to protect those we love, but you must trust her to share your cares and to keep your secrets, if you are to commit your life to her.

 

[Ursa major]

I like that version, Lenny.

(Though I'm debating with myself whether the comma before the 'if' is really needed or not.... )

 

[Jo Zebedee]

Tis okay, Ursa, disagreeing with me is tolerated. (three years of LPITTW....)

I actually like Lenny's version, too.

 

[AMB]

Ursa: In Lenny's example, 'if' is a subordinate conjunction and doesn't need a comma.

Edit: Another option is adding 'while' at the beginning, and dropping the 'but'.

 

[Ursa major]

That's what I thought.

However, my debate with myself (which is still ongoing ) was about whether I prefer:

We all wish to protect those we love, but you must trust her to share your cares and to keep your secrets if you are to commit your life to her.

or

We all wish to protect those we love, but you must trust her to share your cares, and to keep your secrets, if you are to commit your life to her.

The latter looks fussy, but it focuses attention on the keeping of secrets, which I see as a possible bonus for the story.

.

 

[Lenny]

Eh, we'll pass that one off as a stylistic comma. I prefer it with the comma before the "if", as I naturally pause, and my voice drops a tone, when I get to that point. Plus I love commas.

 

[Glisterspeck]

Personally I'd say it:- "We all wish to protect those we love but, if you are to commit your life to her, you must trust her to share your cares and to keep your secrets.", cutting off the subordinate clause and not breathing before the conjunction. I agree that the first example sounds a bit as if you're gasping, but the second isolates the actual continuity (but you must trust her to share your cares and to keep your secrets.) of the trust from the but.

Still, I don't thing this is a matter of absolute "right". Channelling your narrator, say it out loud – where do you stop to breath?

Woah! I would not expect this from you, as you tend to be a stickler in terms of grammar, and as such, I almost always end up agreeing with you. So, I may have missed something here, but wouldn't removing the comma before but turn this into a run-on? The clauses before and after are both independent, correct? I could write it as: "We all wish to protect those we love. If you are to commit your life to her, you must trust her to share your cares and to keep your secrets." Is it because the but changes the context?

 

[prizzley]

Thank you everyone for your contributions. I'm tempted to stick with version 2, as reading it aloud definitely puts a pause before but. Sorry Lenny, your switcheroo doesn't work for me. It puts the emphasis in the wrong place. I've considered making it two sentences.

We all wish to protect those we love, but you’re to commit your life to her. You must trust her to share your cares and to keep your secrets.

But I think one sentence works better. It's interesting that the disagreements on what works confirms Chris's view that there's not necessarily a "right" answer.

 

[Hex]

@glisterspeck -- not a run on, because 'but' is a conjunction -- you can join two separate sentences with a conjunction -- it's when you join them with a comma that you're beaten on the soles of your feet by men in purple robes of punishment.