What Non-Genre Fiction for SFF Readers?

[Extollager]

A counterpart to the discussion about science fiction (and fantasy?) fiction to recommend to people who normally don't read in the genre(s):

A thread for fiction outside of SF and fantasy to recommend to people who usually stick just to these genres.

I would be grateful if the discussion should stick strictly to this topic. Please recommend specific works that you believe would, on their own merits, be reasonably likely to appeal to some people who usually read only sf and fantasy. Please say something about why you have nominated a given work.

To get things started, here are a few possibilities.

I would think that fans of galactic empire-type stories, such as some of Asimov's, might like Robert Graves' I, Claudius (probably the sequel, Claudius the God, too, but I confess I haven't read it)

Twain's Huckleberry Finn might appeal to some readers who like Jack Vance's The Eyes of the Overworld and other tales in which someone has adventures on an open-ended journey or a journey to get home and must be resourceful

L. P. Hartley's The Go-Between might appeal to some readers who like the evocation of poetic mood, a sort of natural supernaturalism, mystery, and irony -- maybe fans of Robert Aickman could try this novel set in 1900

Brian Moore's Black Robe, as I recall, has a quality of fascination in dealing with the encounter with a strange culture; might appeal to fans of Mary Doria Russell's The Sparrow, for example

Shusaku Endo's The Samurai -- based on true story about a Japanese warrior-ambassador's journey to Spain and Mexico in the early 1600s -- really remarkable story about alien cultures, highly recommended

All right, there are five suggestions -- let's have some from y'all.

 

[Victoria Silverwolf]

Interesting question.

For those of us who like the "strangeness" of speculative fiction, I might suggest The World According to Garp by John Irving, which is full of odd happenings which don't quite cross the line into the fantastic.

The technological appeal of the fiction of Arthur C. Clarke is preserved in his only non-speculative novel, the World War Two story Glide Path. It deals with the development of a particular method of guiding a plane down with radar, as well as a strange method of dispersing fog by burning huge amounts of fuel around the runway.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

A couple spring to mind. Again, I think it depends on the sff reader's personal kind of stories they like.

For those who like mythic fantasy, maybe a crossover to myth-based books. Stephen Lawhead's Pendragon series comes to mind.

Those who like character stories that are light Marian Keyes The Brightest Star in the Sky deals with a mainstream story with a very tiny fantasy element.

For a bit of mystery mixed with an unusual narrative structure, which touches on magical realism but is a little more prosaic, Robertson Davies The Deptford Trilogy is excellent.

 

[Connavar]

I would recommend fiction genres like historical fictional that is full of good storytellers with good knowledge of history. C.S Forester for example in Beat to Quarters. Might be a popular choice but i started enjoying naval history because of him.


The Suffering of Young Werter is somewhat close to SFF since its reads like a Gothic novel at times because the romantic lit era it was written, the mood.

If you like wit,smart humor like say Jack Vance Dying Earth and other shorter stories i would strongly recommend the wit of Saki in The Secret sin of Septimus Brope and CK Chesteron in any of his Father Brown stories. Great british authors with sparkling wit,prose.

If you like that kind of author, fiction and dont mind challenging real classic older lit i would also recommend Gargantua by Francis Rabelais.

 

[J-Sun]

I think the hyper-intense interpersonal relations and strong sense of setting (and the barest trace of a fantasy element) would make Emily Bronte's Wuthering Heights work for some. I recall Camus' The Stranger as being so weird and full of "cognitive estrangement" that it should appeal to some. Dostoevsky's Notes from Underground is psychologically intense like the Bronte and "precalls" some SF character studies such as Dying Inside in a way. (I mean, it's kind of stretch the way I'm putting it, but I can see it appealing. Certainly does to me.) I haven't read Stevenson like I should have and will but, aside from the SFF Jekyll and Hyde there's Treasure Island which brings in a lot of adventure/exploration/travel books that would appeal. I can't think of any frontier fiction, especially, off hand, but much of that should work, too.

Then there's where you draw the genre lines. If you don't call certain things strictly SFF, such as Gogol's "The Overcoat" and "The Nose", much of Hesse, and basically all of Kafka would appeal. But if you include them in "genre" then that's naturally too close to count.

Similarly, some of the most appealing stuff that can't be called "genre" but is seen as fantasy of a sort today is a lot of Greek and Roman literature - genre or not, you just can't beat Homer and Aeschylus and others for both great literature and a bit of transcendence. Much poetry, being so imaginative and fantasticated, should also appeal. Philosophy is a giant thought experiment. History is to the past what SF is to the future. All these could appeal.

-- Oops, I wandered off topic - the thread title says "non-genre fiction". Still, much narrative and dramatic poetry is "fiction" of a sort - and, boy, so is some philosophy and history. But scratch such of that as doesn't apply.

 

[Connavar]

I think the hyper-intense interpersonal relations and strong sense of setting (and the barest trace of a fantasy element) would make Emily Bronte's Wuthering Heights work for some. I recall Camus' The Stranger as being so weird and full of "cognitive estrangement" that it should appeal to some. Dostoevsky's Notes from Underground is psychologically intense like the Bronte and "precalls" some SF character studies such as Dying Inside in a way. (I mean, it's kind of stretch the way I'm putting it, but I can see it appealing. Certainly does to me.) I haven't read Stevenson like I should have and will but, aside from the SFF Jekyll and Hyde there's Treasure Island which brings in a lot of adventure/exploration/travel books that would appeal. I can't think of any frontier fiction, especially, off hand, but much of that should work, too.

Then there's where you draw the genre lines. If you don't call certain things strictly SFF, such as Gogol's "The Overcoat" and "The Nose", much of Hesse, and basically all of Kafka would appeal. But if you include them in "genre" then that's naturally too close to count.

Similarly, some of the most appealing stuff that can't be called "genre" but is seen as fantasy of a sort today is a lot of Greek and Roman literature - genre or not, you just can't beat Homer and Aeschylus and others for both great literature and a bit of transcendence. Much poetry, being so imaginative and fantasticated, should also appeal. Philosophy is a giant thought experiment. History is to the past what SF is to the future. All these could appeal.

-- Oops, I wandered off topic - the thread title says "non-genre fiction". Still, much narrative and dramatic poetry is "fiction" of a sort - and, boy, so is some philosophy and history. But scratch such of that as doesn't apply.

Poetry is complex issue in this thread. There are different forms of poetry, prose poetry, epic poems, verse etc and then genres in poetry like for example Howard,Coledridge writing supernatural poetry and then there is all the other types of poetry genres.

Still you should recommend the best poetry. Homer shouldnt be recommended for SFF readers. They should already know better enough to want to read if they care about epic poems or the worlds literary history.

P.S You can actually beat Aeschylus, im a strong believer,advocate of Euripides as the strongest tragedy dramatist of the 3 legendary Greek drama authors. Aeschylus is of course important but he wasnt ahead of his time, was more conventional than Euripides.

 

[Extollager]

I think the hyper-intense interpersonal relations and strong sense of setting (and the barest trace of a fantasy element) would make Emily Bronte's Wuthering Heights work for some.

Oh yes! That had occurred to me & then I forgot to list it.

I could see Conrad's Heart of Darkness as appealing to some sf or fantasy readers.

I don't want to steer this discussion just towards classics, though. Has anyone read The Samurai, which is too recent to be called a classic just yet?

I think some of the books discussed at the Penguin Travel Library and other literary travel books thread could appeal to sf/f readers, but these are nonfiction. Or generally classed as such, though I wouldn't trust that Chatwin character....

 

[Connavar]

Things Fall Apart by Chinua Achebe is a modern great non-genre novel that is for readers who want to experiance the before and after life of colonialism for African country,peoples. Nigerian example in the book fits because of the writers ability,intelligence for many other peoples experience.

Its a great nostalgic feeling you get too reading that book for the old traditional lifestyle before modern urban lifestyle. Depending on the country, peoples you long for a lost identity, the way of the ancestors. Like the main character in the book fighting to preserve the pagan gods,way of life of his ancestors.

 

[Extollager]

I haven't read Stevenson like I should have and will...

I much enjoy Kidnapped, The Master of Ballantrae, and the unfinished Weir of Hermiston. I wouldn't necessarily connect these books that you didn't mention to this thread, but I wanted to recommend them anyway.

 

[J-Sun]

Still you should recommend the best poetry. Homer shouldnt be recommended for SFF readers. They should already know better enough to want to read if they care about epic poems or the worlds literary history.

Sorry, I don't follow. You're saying SFF folks should already know Homer so it's pointless to recommend him? If so, I hope so, but I doubt it. The classics aren't really known like they should be.

P.S You can actually beat Aeschylus, im a strong believer,advocate of Euripides as the strongest tragedy dramatist of the 3 legendary Greek drama authors. Aeschylus is of course important but he wasnt ahead of his time, was more conventional than Euripides.

Yeah, I recognize the argument and that's a matter of taste I can understand but, to me, Euripides sort of "lowered" tragedy to a more realistic "drama" that makes him less appealing to SFF fans, in a way, and less appealing to me, at least. Not to slight Sophocles, either, who's sort of neck and neck with Aeschylus to me but (aside from The Persians) I like Aeschylus' traditional grandeur and mythological richness.

I could see Conrad's Heart of Darkness as appealing to some sf or fantasy readers.

That could actually be another thread for you to start - genre/non-genre crossovers. Heart of Darkness actually inspired a Silverberg novella (and, really, a novel, too) and has inspired other SF works. I think things like The Prisoner of Zenda relate to The Star Kings and Double Star. That sort of thing would naturally appeal to the SF reader in theory, though I haven't read the particular originals yet.

I don't want to steer this discussion just towards classics, though.

That's a good point. I haven't read too much non-classic non-SF stuff, so I can't help there but it's a good thing to keep in mind. One guy who is not too "classic" so far is Tom Robbins - some of his stuff is really hard to call anything but SFF (especially Still Life with Woodpecker and Jitterbug Perfume) but he's never been a genre guy so if SF fans don't know him they might enjoy taking a look.

I much enjoy Kidnapped, The Master of Ballantrae, and the unfinished Weir of Hermiston. I wouldn't necessarily connect these books that you didn't mention to this thread, but I wanted to recommend them anyway.

Yep, I've got all those in a big ol' omnibus and will get to them some day.

 

[GOLLUM]

Wow..I like this thread.

To be honest I could recommend several hundred which means I really need to think carefully before posting more detailed responses...so more off-the-cuff for now..

Some really excellent recommendations so far. Mention of Endo's 'The Samurai' moves me to recommend what is gnerally viewed as his greatest work Silence. The story of a seventeenth Centruy missionary in Japan who continues to maintain his faith away from authorities after being forced to 'offically' deny it. Quite powerful stuff.

The Suffering (or Sorrow) of Young Werter by Goethe is a wonderful read. I probably like his Faust more though.

So many other favs already mentioned including Achebe's Things Fall Apart, Heart of Darkness, The Go-Between, Gogol's short stories, Saki is great fun, Dostoevsky's fanatstic exinstentialist story Notes from Underground, Robertson Davies' The Deptford Trilogy, most of Kafka and Hesse not to mention Thomas Mann or Stefan Zweig...Ivo Andric's The Bridge, or a recent favourite Robert Walser.

Some of the works already mentioned can easily be seen as cross-overs from SFF, so I feel obliged to also mention the maginficent Angela Carter, A.S. Byatt, Borges of course, Julio Cortazar (his Blow up and Other Stories is great), the enigmatic Blasie Cendares, Maria Vargas Llosa's Feast of the Goat, Gabriel Garcia Marquez's two greatest works A Hunderd Years of Solitude and Love in the Time of Cholera, anything by W.G. Sebald notably Austerlitz, Vertigo or Rings of Saturn..and last but not least Joseph Roth's Radetzky March.

Heaps more but work calls ..so I must depart.

 

[clovis-man]

Ancillary to previous suggestions: Lord Jim by Joseph Conrad and Shogun by James Clavell.

Both represent huge dilemmas encountered by characters encountering unfamiliar cultures. In the Conrad novel, the problems are exacerbated by the main character's grappling with inner demons. In the Clavell, the feudal Japanese world is shown in sharp contrast to that of the European characters.

Anyone who enjoys SF stories about strange alien cultures could likely relate to these.

Pay no attention to the film versions of either.

 

[alchemist]

The Religion by Tim Willocks has enough blood, sex and heroism to satisfy epic Fantasy fans, plus you can learn something about history (the siege of Valetta).

 

[Connavar]

Sorry, I don't follow. You're saying SFF folks should already know Homer so it's pointless to recommend him? If so, I hope so, but I doubt it. The classics aren't really known like they should be.

Im not saying everyone should already know the big classics like Homer but that SFF folks are no different than any other readers when it comes to Homer meaning if you have interest in classic world lit you should know who he is or will find you way there eventually. If not he is not for you because of your lack of interest in the classics.

 

[Fried Egg]

Interesting question. Similar, to a somewhat related question I asked a while back: Fantasy Outside of the Genre: What great fantasy is there that is not normally classed or categorised as fantasy?.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

I didn't touch on some of the magical realism stuff because I'm not sure if it's considered genre, or not. It's usually stocked on general shelves, though. If it counts, Isabelle Allende is marvellous -- House of the Spirits is her classic -- and Zafon's The Shadow of the wind and the other books in that series are also very, very good.

I think the thread here runs the danger -- and I thought it in the other thread, too -- of putting a lot of focus on classics/hard reads and maybe overlooks that not all genre readers read heavy books, but quite like lighter reads, too. Much like what Toby Frost said on the other thread -- if they like war sci fi, then military history books might well cross over, if they like steampunk, then something that evokes back to that. It's just, if we're challenging people to switch genres for some it's about making the genre accessible, and not always challenging.

For instance, I quite like Kafka, but I don't think I'd find him an easy sell as a first non-genre book to anyone other than a pretty serious reader.

For instance, for those who like character sci-fi, I'd recommend The Time Traveller's Wife. But, I suspect, not what many of us here would see as an obvious book for a genre fan, it being often viewed as a romance book, first and foremost. But I'm a mainly sff reader (well 50% anyway), and I don't read romance, but I loved it. So, maybe it's not just about looking and reccommending classics?

 

[GOLLUM]

Interesting comment there Springs that for some accessibility may be more key than whether something is 'challenging'. For me it's a mix of both. that's why the clear majority of so-called 'literary' works I like the most tend to be a mix of familiarity in terms of Genre elements as well as addressing fairly heavy subject matter including various philosophical points of view...which is not to say what we may tend to identify as being the SFF Genre doesn't have plenty of those examples either.

Hence my interest in authors like Allende, Zafon, Carter, Marquez, Kafka, Borges etc.

 

[Venusian Broon]

Springs, are you asking: "What non-genre books do we think the hardcore SF&F reader* might like and use to start to explore other genres/mainstream etc...?" Or is it something else.

The first rule of VB book club is: Once you've started a book, you must finish it.

The second rule of VB book club is: Once you've started a book, you must finish it.

The third rule of VB book club is: Don't be picky, there is a universe of different book experiences out there. Why confine yourself to a small garden patch because you think that's just what you like. (How do you know???)

As for classics - well there's a reason they're called that - they've stood the test of time and have brought pleasure to millions. And many of them aren't hard reads at all. Alice in Wonderland, The 39 steps, The Adventure of Sherlock Holmes, Kidnapped, MR James Ghost stories, to name but a tiny few!**

True, hard reads can be daunting, (I am still working up the courage to give Joyce's Ulysses a good shot), but I've found that sometimes the more you have to put into a read - the more you get out. Kafka sits in this pile as well, I guess. I like him too alot.

So I suppose my advice would be to try anything and everything.

I suppose I'm blessed with quick comprehension, a fast reading speed and the knack of finding pleasure in any style, genre or fictional trope. The only work of fiction that I had serious problems with reading and therefore breaking the cardinal rules of VB book club, was Don Quixote. But it is almost the first modern novel (1605 Wikipedia says) so I struggled hard with the language. But I managed to finish it. Just.

=========================================
* And by hardcore I mean, someone who has only ever read SF&F
** Not recommending those as such, but just pointing out that they are pretty easy reads.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

Interesting comment there Springs that for some accessibility may be more key than whether something is 'challenging'. For me it's a mix of both. that's why the clear majority of so-called 'literary' works I like the most tend to be a mix of familiarity in terms of Genre elements as well as addressing fairly heavy subject matter including various philosophical points of view...which is not to say what we may tend to identify as being the SFF Genre doesn't have plenty of those examples either.

Hence my interest in authors like Allende, Zafon, Carter, Marquez, Kafka, Borges etc.

But that's your personal choice of the level of reading you like, and if you were recommending to someone with the same level then you'd base your recommendations on that.

Springs, are you asking: "What non-genre books do we think the hardcore SF&F reader* might like and use to start to explore other genres/mainstream etc...?" Or is it something else.

As for classics - well there's a reason they're called that - they've stood the test of time and have brought pleasure to millions. And many of them aren't hard reads at all. Alice in Wonderland, The 39 steps, The Adventure of Sherlock Holmes, Kidnapped, MR James Ghost stories, to name but a tiny few!**

True, hard reads can be daunting, (I am still working up the courage to give Joyce's Ulysses a good shot), but I've found that sometimes the more you have to put into a read - the more you get out. Kafka sits in this pile as well, I guess. I like him too alot.

So I suppose my advice would be to try anything and everything.

I suppose I'm blessed with quick comprehension, a fast reading speed and the knack of finding pleasure in any style, genre or fictional trope. The only work of fiction that I had serious problems with reading and therefore breaking the cardinal rules of VB book club, was Don Quixote. But it is almost the first modern novel (1605 Wikipedia says) so I struggled hard with the language. But I managed to finish it. Just.

=========================================
* And by hardcore I mean, someone who has only ever read SF&F
** Not recommending those as such, but just pointing out that they are pretty easy reads.

No, I'm not suggesting anything, I'm trying to answer the OP's question. You're blessed with quick reading, and you're very lucky. I think most of us in either GWD or GBD are pretty widely read, after all why join a forum that talks a lot about books and writing, and frequent the forums for that, if we aren't.

What I'm trying to say is we need to tailor the approach of reccommendations to the person's own taste and level of reading. If they're reading Star Wars spin off books (which I meant to mention in the other thread as possible entry level books to sff) then there is little point in handing them a Kafka and saying here, read this, I think you'll get a lot from it. They might, though, really enjoy a good western, especially if they like the Han series'. (Yes, I have been known in my young days to enjoy a good Han Solo spin off novel.)

I thought there was a danger of the thread concentrating so much on classics at the detriment to other readers. (And I love classics, and have probably read most of the absolute key authors in my time. Partly because I had to for school, partly because I liked them.)

It's a very diverse world, and a very diverse readership, that's all. And I'd be just as inclined to say to someone, What, so you enjoyed a good romance, have you tried Time Traveller's, it has romance and sci fi, as I would be to say to someone else so you really enjoyed The Green Mile, have you looked at Dickens, who did the same sort of cliff hanger thing in his.

It's like any learning -- you break down barriers, not add them, and you tailor it to the person. Being introduced to a new genre, especially if you've only/predominantly read one genre is learning. That's all.

 

[steve12553]

My thoughts would be "what do you get out of Science Fiction and/or Fantasy and where else can you get it?"
Of course, phrasing it that way can easily tell one what I get out of it and where I was interested next.
The Science Fiction I'm drawn to (and also the occasional Fantasy) in spite of any other factors (Action, Adventure, Drama, Romance...) contains a Mystery. A puzzle the protagonist must solve to save the day or discovery the solution or... Obviously everyone is not wired that way but I look for a mystery. Things are not as they seem, let's figure it out. I found Sherlock Holmes at an early age and am attracted to the genre spawned from Holmes and the other early detectives. At this point in my life I probably by four Mysteries for every Science Fiction book. Of course, getting serious about Mysteries and Detective stories at this age does put me a fifty years behind.
I would imagine there is a second or more genre for everyone that would provide what they get out of Science Fiction and/or Fantasy the same way.