The SFF All-Time Sales List

[AndrewT]

A real accurate count over time might push Tolkien up closer to a billion. Much of the sale of his books took place before accurate counts were being tracked.

 

[Parson]

CS Lewis also wrote a fair number of non-fiction and non-SFF works, but I'd hazard that a minimum of 95% of his sales are of the Narnia books alone, so the rest is negligible.

I'd bet 95% is very high. His books on the Christian life still sell, and sell well. "Mere Christianity" is pretty much on every evangelical Christian's "must read" list. (I would be shocked if its ever been out of print.) And the "Abolition of Man" is so prescient in regard to the effects of modernity on the Christian world view that there are a few who are beginning to call him a modern day prophet.

 

[clovis-man]

I'd bet 95% is very high. His books on the Christian life still sell, and sell well. "Mere Christianity" is pretty much on every evangelical Christian's "must read" list. (I would be shocked if its ever been out of print.) And the "Abolition of Man" is so prescient in regard to the effects of modernity on the Christian world view that there are a few who are beginning to call him a modern day prophet.

Not to mention "The Screwtape Letters".

 

[Werthead]

I'd bet 95% is very high

Lewis's total sales are reported at 100-120 million, whilst total sales of The Chronicles of Narnia are also reported 100-120 million and The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe by itself is said to have sold about 80 million.

One possibility is that his non-fiction is not reported in his book sales, especially where it consists of essays which may have been frequently reprinted in other venuses.

A real accurate count over time might push Tolkien up closer to a billion. Much of the sale of his books took place before accurate counts were being tracked.

Book sales have been tracked by publishers for a long time to ensure the writer gets paid. For LotR, sales were apparently about the million mark before it exploded in the USA in the 1960s, and we know the illegal Ace edition sold 100,000 copies before it was pulled. We can follow the reported sales relatively straightforwardly.

The big problem is pirate editions. LotR was published in unathorised translations in places like China and even Vietnam for years or even decades before official versions were released. It's also one of the most heavily-borrowed books from libraries ever. The number of readers of the book is likely a lot more than 200 million, but we'll never know for sure.

 

[Werthead]

A further update. The biggest surprise here is Iain Banks: 1.1 million of his SF novels sold combined, compared to 1 million copies of The Wasp Factory just by itself. Looks like he wasn't kidding when he said his non-SF outsold his SF by a lot.

1) J.K. Rowling (c. 450 million)
2) Stephen King (c. 350 million)
[Dean Koontz (c. 350 million)]
3) JRR Tolkien (c. 300 million)
[Michael Crichton (200 million)]
4) CS Lewis (120 million+)
5) Stephanie Meyer (116 million)
6) Sir Arthur C. Clarke (100 million+)
7) Anne Rice (100 million)
8) Sir Terry Pratchett (85 million+)
9) Robert Jordan (80 million+)
10) James Herbert (54 million+)
11) Richard Adams (50 million+)
12) Suzanne Collins (50 million+)
[Dennis Wheatley (50 million)]
[Jean M. Auel (45 million)]
[Morgan Llywelyn (40 million)]
13) Christopher Paolini (39 million)
14) Michael Ende (35 million)
15) Stanislaw Lem (30 million+)
16) R.A. Salvatore (30 million+)
17) Charlaine Harris (30 million+)
18) George R.R. Martin (28 million+)
19) Kaoru Kurimoto (28 million)
20) Terry Brooks (26.5 million)
21) George Orwell (25 million+)
22) Terry Goodkind (25 million+)
23) Diana Gabaldon (25 million)
24) Cassandra Clare (24 million)
25) Kevin J. Anderson (23 million)
26) Eoin Colfer (21 million)
27) Isaac Asimov (20 million+)
28) Margaret Weis & Tracy Hickman (c. 20 million)
29) Brian Jacques (c. 20 million)
30) Kazumasa Hirai (c. 20 million)
31) Raymond E. Feist (20 million+)
32) Michael Moorcock (20 million)
33) Mercedes Lackey (20 million)
34) Frank Herbert (18 million)
35) Hideyuki Kikuchi (18 million)
36) Tad Williams (17 million)
37) Douglas Adams (16 million)
38) Rick Riordan (15 million)
39) Philip Pullman (15 million)
40) Yoshiki Tanaka (15 million)
41) Timothy Zahn (15 million)
42) Robert Heinlein (11.5 million)
43) Diana Wynne Jones (10 million+)
44) Robert E. Howard (10 million+)
45) Stephen Donaldson (10 million)
46) Neil Gaiman (10 million + )
47) Alice Sebold (10 million+)
48) Madeline L'Engle (10 million+)
49) Chris Bunch (10 million+)
50) Allan Cole (10 million+)
51) Ray Bradbury (8 million+)
52) David Weber (7 million)
53) William Gibson (6.5 million+)
54) Peter S. Beagle (6 million+)
55) Laurell K. Hamilton (6 million+)
56) Jim Butcher (6 million+)
57) L. Frank Baum (5 million+)
58) Robert R. McCammon (5 million+)
59) Garth Nix (5 million)
60) Frank Schatzing (4.2 million+)
61) Vonda N. McIntyre (4 million)
62) Lian Hearn (4 million)
63) David Drake (4 million)
64) Veronica Roth (4 million)
65) Roger Zelazny (3.5 million+)
66) Ursula K. Le Guin (3 million+)
67) Guy Gavriel Kay (3 million)
68) Lloyd Alexander (3 million)
69) John Ringo (3 million)
70) Joe Abercrombie (3 million)
71) Margaret Atwood (3 million+) (SF only)
72) Robert Silverberg (3 million+)
73) Eric Flint (3 million)
74) Scott Westerfield (3 million+)
75) Robert Asprin (3 million)
76) Harry Turtledove (2.5 million)
77) Audrey Niffenegger (2.5 million+)
78) Michelle Paver (2.5 million+)
79) Max Brooks (2.4 million+)
80) James Dashner (2.3 million+)
81) Susan Cooper (2 million+)
82) Orson Scott Card (2 million+)
83) Sergei Lukyanenko (2 million+)
84) Hans Dominik (2 million+)
85) Peter F. Hamilton (2 million+)
86) Brent Weeks (2 million)
87) Andrzej Sapkowski (2 million+)
88) Lois McMaster Bujold (2 million)
89) Katherine Kurtz (2 million)
90) Trudi Canavan (2 million+)
91) Stephen Lawhead (2 million+)
92) Robert Rankin (2 million+)
93) Maggie Stiefvater (2 million+)
94) Gregory Benford (2 million+)
95) Gordon R. Dickson (2 million+)
96) Melanie Rawn (1.8 million+)
97) Jennifer Roberson (1.7 million)
98) Susanna Clarke (1.5 million+)
99) Seth Grahame-Smith (1.4 million+)
100) Dan Abnett (1.2 million+)
101) Naomi Novik (1.2 million+)
102) Iain M. Banks (1.1 million+) (SF only)
103) Samuel R. Delany (1 million+)
104) Ed Greenwood (1 million+)
105) L.E. Modesitt, Jr. (1 million+)
106) Connie Willis (1 million)
107) Sara Douglass (1 million)
108) Anne McCaffrey (1 million+)
109) Robin Hobb (1 million+)
110) David Gemmell (1 million+)
111) Steven Erikson (1 million+)
112) Alastair Reynolds (1 million+)
113) Ian Irvine (1 million+)
114) Richard A. Knaak (1 million+)
115) Katherine Kerr (1 million+)
116) Dave Duncan (1 million+)
117) A.C. Crispin (1 million+)
118) Chris Wooding (750,000+)
119) Hugh Howey (500,000+)
120) Alison Croggon (500,000+)
121) Michael Gerber (500,000+)
122) Gail Carriger (400,000+)
123) Lynn Flewelling (350,000)
124) Peter V. Brett (310,000+)
125) Kate Elliott (300,000+)
126) Ernest Cline (300,000)
127) J.V. Jones (250,000+)
128) Mark Lawrence (250,000+)
129) Michael J. Sullivan (250,000+)
130) Karen Miller (250,000+)
131) Gail Z. Martin (180,000+)
132) Daniel H. Wilson (160,000+)
133) Scott Lynch (145,000+)
134) R. Scott Bakker (125,000+)
135) Glenda Larke (120,000+)
136) Elizabeth Moon (100,000+)
137) Adam Roberts (100,000+)

 

[Werthead]

Significant update. A good showing by Brandon Sanderson:

1) J.K. Rowling (c. 450 million)
2) Stephen King (c. 350 million)
3) JRR Tolkien (c. 300 million)
[Dean Koontz (c. 200 million)]
[Michael Crichton (200 million)]
4) Anne Rice (136 million)
5) CS Lewis (120 million+)
6) Stephanie Meyer (116 million)
7) Sir Arthur C. Clarke (100 million+)
8) Andre Norton (90 million+)
9) Sir Terry Pratchett (85 million+)
10) Robert Jordan (80 million+)
11) James Herbert (54 million+)
12) Richard Adams (50 million+)
13) Suzanne Collins (50 million+)
[Dennis Wheatley (50 million)]
[Jean M. Auel (45 million)]
[Morgan Llywelyn (40 million)]
14) Christopher Paolini (39 million)
15) Michael Ende (35 million)
16) Stanislaw Lem (30 million+)
17) R.A. Salvatore (30 million+)
18) Charlaine Harris (30 million+)
19) Sherrilyn Kenyon (30 million+)
20) Robert Heinelin (30 million+)
21) George R.R. Martin (28 million+)
22) Kaoru Kurimoto (28 million)
23) Terry Brooks (26.5 million)
24) George Orwell (25 million+)
25) Marion Zimmer Bradley (25 million+)
26) Darren Shan (25 million+)
27) Terry Goodkind (25 million+)
28) Diana Gabaldon (25 million)
29) Cassandra Clare (24 million)
30) Kevin J. Anderson (23 million)
31) Eoin Colfer (21 million)
32) Isaac Asimov (20 million+)
33) Margaret Weis (c. 20 million)
34) Tracy Hickman (c. 20 million)
35) Brian Jacques (c. 20 million)
36) Kazumasa Hirai (c. 20 million)
37) Raymond E. Feist (20 million+)
38) Michael Moorcock (20 million)
39) Mercedes Lackey (20 million)
40) Frank Herbert (18 million)
41) Hideyuki Kikuchi (18 million)
42) Anne McCaffrey (18 million+)
43) Tad Williams (17 million)
44) Larry Niven (17 million)
45) Douglas Adams (16 million)
46) Brandon Sanderson (15 million+)
47) Rick Riordan (15 million)
48) Philip Pullman (15 million)
49) Yoshiki Tanaka (15 million)
50) Timothy Zahn (15 million)
51) Diana Wynne Jones (10 million+)
52) Robert E. Howard (10 million+)
53) Stephen Donaldson (10 million)
54) Neil Gaiman (10 million + )
55) Alice Sebold (10 million+)
56) Madeline L'Engle (10 million+)
57) Jerry Pournell (10 million+)
58) Chris Bunch (10 million+)
59) Allan Cole (10 million+)
60) Peter Straub (10 million+)
61) Frederik Pohl (10 million+)
62) Cyril M. Kornbluth (10 million+)
63) David Eddings (8.5 million+)
64) Ray Bradbury (8 million+)
65) Christopher Golden (8 million+)
[Bernard Cornwell (7 million+)]
66) David Weber (7 million)
67) Orson Scott Card (7 million+)
68) William Gibson (6.5 million+)
69) Peter S. Beagle (6 million+)
70) Laurell K. Hamilton (6 million+)
71) Jim Butcher (6 million+)
72) L. Frank Baum (5 million+)
73) Daniel Keyes (5 million+)
74) Garth Nix (5 million)
75) Robert R. McCammon (5 million+)
76) Frank Schatzing (4.2 million+)
77) Fritz Leiber (4 million+)
78) Vonda N. McIntyre (4 million)
79) Lian Hearn (4 million)
80) David Drake (4 million)
81) Veronica Roth (4 million)
82) Roger Zelazny (3.5 million+)
83) Aaron Allston (3.3. million+)
84) Robert Harris (3 million+) (SF only)
85) Alan Dean Foster (3 million+)
86) Ursula K. Le Guin (3 million+)
87) Guy Gavriel Kay (3 million)
88) Lloyd Alexander (3 million)
89) Dan Abnett (3 million+)
90) John Ringo (3 million)
91) Joe Abercrombie (3 million)
92) Margaret Atwood (3 million+) (SF only)
93) Robert Silverberg (3 million+)
94) Eric Flint (3 million)
95) Scott Westerfield (3 million+)
96) Robert Asprin (3 million)
97) Rick Hautala (3 million+)
98) Brian Lumley (3 million+)
99) Harry Turtledove (2.5 million)
100) S.M. Stirling (2.5 million)
101) Audrey Niffenegger (2.5 million+)
102) Michelle Paver (2.5 million+)
103) Max Brooks (2.4 million+)
104) James Dashner (2.3 million+)
105) Susan Cooper (2 million+)
106) Sergei Lukyanenko (2 million+)
107) Hans Dominik (2 million+)
108) Peter F. Hamilton (2 million+)
109) Brent Weeks (2 million)
110) Andrzej Sapkowski (2 million+)
111) Lois McMaster Bujold (2 million)
112) Katherine Kurtz (2 million)
113) Trudi Canavan (2 million+)
114) Stephen Lawhead (2 million+)
115) Robert Rankin (2 million+)
116) Maggie Stiefvater (2 million+)
117) Gregory Benford (2 million+)
118) Greg Bear (2 million+)
119) Gordon R. Dickson (2 million+)
120) Jacqueline Carey (2 million+)
121) Piers Anthony (2 million+)
122) Melanie Rawn (1.8 million+)
123) Jennifer Roberson (1.7 million)
124) Elizabeth Moon (1.5 million+)
125) Deborah Harkness (1.5 million+)
126) Susanna Clarke (1.5 million+)
127) Markus Heitz (1.5 million+)
128) Seth Grahame-Smith (1.4 million+)
129) Dan Simmons (1.25 million+)
130) Stan Nicholls (1.25 million+)
131) Naomi Novik (1.2 million+)
132) Iain M. Banks (1.1 million+) (SF only)
133) Kelley Armstrong (1 million+)
134) Samuel R. Delany (1 million+)
135) Ed Greenwood (1 million+)
136) Paul S. Kemp (1 million+)
137) L.E. Modesitt, Jr. (1 million+)
138) Connie Willis (1 million)
139) Sara Douglass (1 million)
140) Robin Hobb (1 million+)
141) David Gemmell (1 million+)
142) Steven Erikson (1 million+)
143) Alastair Reynolds (1 million+)
144) Ian Irvine (1 million+)
145) Richard A. Knaak (1 million+)
146) Katherine Kerr (1 million+)
147) Dave Duncan (1 million+)
148) A.C. Crispin (1 million+)
149) Hugh Howey (1 million+)
150) Joe Haldeman (1 million+)
151) Glen Cook (1 million+)
152) David Brin (1 million+)
153) Henry N. Beard (1 million+)
154) Douglas C. Kenney (1 million+)
155) Alexey Pehov (1 million+)
156) Chris Wooding (750,000+)
157) Erin Morgenstern (650,000+)
158) Janny Wurts (500,000+)
159) Kevin Hearne (500,000+)
160) Alison Croggon (500,000+)
161) Michael Gerber (500,000+)
162) Gail Carriger (400,000+)
163) Lynn Flewelling (350,000)
164) Peter V. Brett (310,000+)
165) Kate Elliott (300,000+)
166) Ben Aaronovitch (300,000+)
167) Ernest Cline (300,000)
168) J.V. Jones (250,000+)
169) Mark Lawrence (250,000+)
170) Michael J. Sullivan (250,000+)
171) Karen Miller (250,000+)
172) Sharon Lee (250,000+)
173) Steve Miller (250,000+)
174) James Barclay (200,000+)
175) Paolo Bacigalupi (200,000+)
176) Jaye Wells (200,000+)
177) Gail Z. Martin (180,000+)
178) David Dalglish (175,000+)
179) Daniel H. Wilson (160,000+)
180) Adam Roberts (150,000+)
181) Glen Duncan (150,000+)
182) Scott Lynch (145,000+)
183) R. Scott Bakker (125,000+)
184) Glenda Larke (120,000+)
185) James Lovegrove (100,000+)
186) Russell Kirkpatrick (70,000+)

 

[Werthead]

Another update, taking us to almost 200 authors.

1) J.K. Rowling (c. 450 million)
2) Stephen King (c. 350 million)
3) JRR Tolkien (c. 300 million)
[Dean Koontz (c. 200 million)]
[Michael Crichton (200 million)]
4) Anne Rice (136 million)
5) CS Lewis (120 million+)
6) Stephanie Meyer (116 million)
7) Edgar Rice Burroughs (100 million+)
8) Sir Arthur C. Clarke (100 million+)
9) Andre Norton (90 million+)
10) Sir Terry Pratchett (85 million+)
11) Robert Jordan (80 million+)
[John Saul (60 million+)]
12) James Herbert (54 million+)
13) Richard Adams (50 million+)
14) Suzanne Collins (50 million+)
[Dennis Wheatley (50 million)]
[Jean M. Auel (45 million)]
[Morgan Llywelyn (40 million)]
15) Christopher Paolini (39 million)
16) Michael Ende (35 million)
17) Charlaine Harris (32.5 million)
18) Stanislaw Lem (30 million+)
19) R.A. Salvatore (30 million+)
20) Sherrilyn Kenyon (30 million+)
21) Robert Heinelin (30 million+)
22) George R.R. Martin (28 million+)
23) Kaoru Kurimoto (28 million)
24) Terry Brooks (26.5 million)
25) George Orwell (25 million+)
26) Marion Zimmer Bradley (25 million+)
27) Darren Shan (25 million+)
28) Terry Goodkind (25 million+)
29) Diana Gabaldon (25 million)
30) Cassandra Clare (24 million)
31) Kevin J. Anderson (23 million)
32) Eoin Colfer (21 million)
33) Isaac Asimov (20 million+)
34) Margaret Weis (c. 20 million)
35) Tracy Hickman (c. 20 million)
36) Brian Jacques (c. 20 million)
37) Kazumasa Hirai (c. 20 million)
38) Raymond E. Feist (20 million+)
39) Michael Moorcock (20 million)
40) Mercedes Lackey (20 million)
41) David Eddings (18 million+)
42) Frank Herbert (18 million)
43) Hideyuki Kikuchi (18 million)
44) Anne McCaffrey (18 million+)
45) Tad Williams (17 million)
46) Larry Niven (17 million)
47) Douglas Adams (16 million)
48) Brandon Sanderson (15 million+) (12 million WoT)
49) Rick Riordan (15 million)
50) Philip Pullman (15 million)
51) Yoshiki Tanaka (15 million)
52) Timothy Zahn (15 million)
53) Diana Wynne Jones (10 million+)
54) Robert E. Howard (10 million+)
55) Stephen Donaldson (10 million)
56) Neil Gaiman (10 million + )
57) Alice Sebold (10 million+)
58) Madeline L'Engle (10 million+)
59) Jerry Pournell (10 million+)
60) Chris Bunch (10 million+)
61) Allan Cole (10 million+)
62) Peter Straub (10 million+)
63) Frederik Pohl (10 million+)
64) Cyril M. Kornbluth (10 million+)
65) Gordon R. Dickson (10 million+)
66) Ray Bradbury (8 million+)
67) Christopher Golden (8 million+)
68) F. Paul Wilson (8 million+)
[Bernard Cornwell (7 million+)]
69) David Weber (7 million)
70) Orson Scott Card (7 million+)
71) William Gibson (6.5 million+)
72) Peter S. Beagle (6 million+)
73) Gregory Maguire (6 million+)
74) Laurell K. Hamilton (6 million+)
75) Jim Butcher (6 million+)
76) L. Frank Baum (5 million+)
77) Daniel Keyes (5 million+)
78) Garth Nix (5 million)
79) Robert R. McCammon (5 million+)
80) Frank Schatzing (4.2 million+)
81) Fritz Leiber (4 million+)
82) Vonda N. McIntyre (4 million)
83) Lian Hearn (4 million)
84) David Drake (4 million)
85) Veronica Roth (4 million)
86) Roger Zelazny (3.5 million+)
87) Aaron Allston (3.3. million+)
88) Robert Harris (3 million+) (SF only)
89) Alan Dean Foster (3 million+)
90) Ursula K. Le Guin (3 million+)
91) Guy Gavriel Kay (3 million)
92) Lloyd Alexander (3 million)
93) Dan Abnett (3 million+)
94) John Ringo (3 million)
95) Joe Abercrombie (3 million)
96) Margaret Atwood (3 million+) (SF only)
97) Robert Silverberg (3 million+)
98) Eric Flint (3 million)
99) Scott Westerfield (3 million+)
100) Robert Asprin (3 million)
101) Rick Hautala (3 million+)
102) Brian Lumley (3 million+)
103) Simon R. Green (2.7 million)
104) Harry Turtledove (2.5 million)
105) S.M. Stirling (2.5 million)
106) Audrey Niffenegger (2.5 million+)
107) Michelle Paver (2.5 million+)
108) Max Brooks (2.4 million+)
109) James Dashner (2.3 million+)
110) Susan Cooper (2 million+)
111) Sergei Lukyanenko (2 million+)
112) Hans Dominik (2 million+)
113) Peter F. Hamilton (2 million+)
114) Brent Weeks (2 million)
115) Andrzej Sapkowski (2 million+)
116) Lois McMaster Bujold (2 million)
117) Katherine Kurtz (2 million)
118) Trudi Canavan (2 million+)
119) Stephen Lawhead (2 million+)
120) Robert Rankin (2 million+)
121) Maggie Stiefvater (2 million+)
122) Gregory Benford (2 million+)
123) Greg Bear (2 million+)
124) Jacqueline Carey (2 million+)
125) Piers Anthony (2 million+)
126) L.E. Modesitt, Jr. (2 million+)
127) Melanie Rawn (1.8 million+)
128) Jennifer Roberson (1.7 million)
129) Elizabeth Moon (1.5 million+)
130) Deborah Harkness (1.5 million+)
131) Susanna Clarke (1.5 million+)
132) Markus Heitz (1.5 million+)
133) Libba Bray (1.5 million+)
134) Seth Grahame-Smith (1.4 million+)
135) Dan Simmons (1.25 million+)
136) Stan Nicholls (1.25 million+)
137) Naomi Novik (1.2 million+)
138) Jack Campbell (1.2 million+)
139) Iain M. Banks (1.1 million+) (SF only)
140) Kelley Armstrong (1 million+)
141) Samuel R. Delany (1 million+)
142) Ed Greenwood (1 million+)
143) Paul S. Kemp (1 million+)
144) Connie Willis (1 million)
145) Sara Douglass (1 million)
146) Robin Hobb (1 million+)
147) David Gemmell (1 million+)
148) Steven Erikson (1 million+)
149) Alastair Reynolds (1 million+)
150) Jasper Fforde (1 million+)
151) Ian Irvine (1 million+)
152) Richard A. Knaak (1 million+)
153) Katherine Kerr (1 million+)
154) Dave Duncan (1 million+)
155) A.C. Crispin (1 million+)
156) Hugh Howey (1 million+)
157) Joe Haldeman (1 million+)
158) Glen Cook (1 million+)
159) David Brin (1 million+)
160) Henry N. Beard (1 million+)
161) Douglas C. Kenney (1 million+)
162) Alexey Pehov (1 million+)
163) John Gregory Betancourt (1 million+)
164) Jo Clayton (1 million+)
165) Christie Golden (1 million+)
166) Drew Karpyshyn (1 million+)
167) Peter V. Brett (925,000)
168) Chris Wooding (750,000+)
169) William King (750,000+)
170) Erin Morgenstern (650,000+)
171) Janny Wurts (500,000+)
172) Kevin Hearne (500,000+)
173) Alison Croggon (500,000+)
174) Michael Gerber (500,000+)
175) Hugh Cook (500,000+)
176) Gail Carriger (400,000+)
177) Lynn Flewelling (350,000)
178) Kate Elliott (300,000+)
179) Ben Aaronovitch (300,000+)
180) Ernest Cline (300,000)
181) J.V. Jones (250,000+)
182) Mark Lawrence (250,000+)
183) Michael J. Sullivan (250,000+)
184) Karen Miller (250,000+)
185) Sharon Lee (250,000+)
186) Steve Miller (250,000+)
187) James Barclay (200,000+)
188) Paolo Bacigalupi (200,000+)
189) Jaye Wells (200,000+)
190) Gail Z. Martin (180,000+)
191) David Dalglish (175,000+)
192) Daniel H. Wilson (160,000+)
193) Adam Roberts (150,000+)
194) Glen Duncan (150,000+)
195) Scott Lynch (145,000+)
196) R. Scott Bakker (125,000+)
197) Glenda Larke (120,000+)
198) James Lovegrove (100,000+)
199) Russell Kirkpatrick (70,000+)

 

[Mark_Lawrence]

Another update, taking us to almost 200 authors.


9) Andre Norton (90 million+)

I had to look this person up as I was surprised never to have heard of someone who has sold nearly 100 million fantasy books.

On Goodreads she has 457 fans and her most popular book has 8000 ratings. This has led to some serious re-evaluation of my model of how real world success is reflected in Goodreads...

Obviously I understood it to depend on the reader demographic and the period over which the books came out, but hadn't realised to what extent.

 

[lauren$77]

I had to look this person up as I was surprised never to have heard of someone who has sold nearly 100 million fantasy books.

On Goodreads she has 457 fans and her most popular book has 8000 ratings. This has led to some serious re-evaluation of my model of how real world success is reflected in Goodreads...

Obviously I understood it to depend on the reader demographic and the period over which the books came out, but hadn't realised to what extent.

I hadn't heard of her either, so I looked her up. She lived till she was 93 and her books space at least 5 decades (1940s-1980's). So yes you're right it would seem her longevity and continued presence for so many years led to those large volume sales.

Are you going to make a graph?

 

[Parson]

You guys should actually read some of Andre Norton's stuff. One of my all time favorites is her book "Catseye." Her later stuff was more in the fantasy realm with a lot of witches etc. but her early stuff was clear headed SF from the 50's and 60's.

 

[lauren$77]

You guys should actually read some of Andre Norton's stuff. One of my all time favorites is her book "Catseye." Her later stuff was more in the fantasy realm with a lot of witches etc. but her early stuff was clear headed SF from the 50's and 60's.

Ok I think I will put her next on my list - although her later stuff with the witches would probably appeal more to me,

 

[Werthead]

The level of buzz generated by lots of reviews and discussion on Goodread reflects exactly the level of reviews and discussion on Goodreads and not a lot else

A few years ago, certainly when I started the blog in 2006, publishers agreed that somewhere between 95% and 99% of SFF readers and fans never went onto the internet to engage in online discussion and debate. More do so now, of course, but I'd be surprised if it was enough to make any sort of online presence/actual success correlation accurate enough to be useful. Just look at someone like Steven Erikson, who generates more online discussion than most fantasy authors yet has fallen behind (in sales) tons of authors who generate very little online discussion.

Goodreads is also developing quite a bad reputation for fake reviews and author-bashing (not as bad as Amazon's comments section, obviously).

 

[Brian G Turner]

A few years ago, certainly when I started the blog in 2006, publishers agreed that somewhere between 95% and 99% of SFF readers and fans never went onto the internet to engage in online discussion and debate.

I would call that out as dinosaur thinking. People communicate what they enjoy and dislike, and the internet is the world's largest communication tool.

I think these are the same people, who a few years at conferences were also dismissive of Amazon's market share. I think there's still a mentality that most sales are through book shops - but I bet if you strip out the bestsellers most sales would be through Amazon, not book shops.

I think publishers in general simply do not understand the internet.

I'd be surprised if it was enough to make any sort of online presence/actual success correlation accurate enough to be useful

Quite true - there's the old adage of quality, not quantity. Especially when it comes to marmite authors.

Btw, I just wanted to thank you again for posting the updated lists - it really is appreciated.

 

[thatollie]

I'm surprised that Pullman, Martin and Gaiman are so low, considering the huge deal that has been made about their work. Pullman's had one book turned into a movie that grossed 370 mil (the book also has two sequels) and another first book in a series adapted by the BBC. Martin has Thrones plus whatever all the others have earned. Gaiman has had a couple of books turned into movies plus his huge reputation from the comics to drive sales and he's written a few books (if you're counting his juvies).

 

[Mark_Lawrence]

The level of buzz generated by lots of reviews and discussion on Goodread reflects exactly the level of reviews and discussion on Goodreads and not a lot else

I don't believe this to be true.

A typical fantasy book might sell 5000 copies. If a fantasy book has 10,000 ratings on Goodreads it's a pretty safe bet it's doing a lot better than average.

These numbers are significant compared to sales figures and therefore significant full stop. Goodreads has 13 million members - that is a decent fraction of the active reading public and certainly large enough to generate meaningful samples.

To accurately poll a population of millions you need only canvas the opinions of a few hundred people (providing they are well mixed) - the Goodreads sample may not be well mixed but it is much larger and can't be discounted.

The caveat is to remember that older books are less likely to be rated than newer ones and so their ratings require inflation for comparison purposes. Obviously there are other variables but I think for books released at a similar time the number of ratings will correlate to sales to a degree that is a useful guide.

 

[Mark_Lawrence]

I would call that out as dinosaur thinking. People communicate what they enjoy and dislike, and the internet is the world's largest communication tool.

I think these are the same people, who a few years at conferences were also dismissive of Amazon's market share. I think there's still a mentality that most sales are through book shops - but I bet if you strip out the bestsellers most sales would be through Amazon, not book shops.

I think publishers in general simply do not understand the internet.

I spoke about this to my editor (& capo dei capi at Voyager) yesterday. She said that about 50% of all their sales were through Amazon. A good fraction of people buying books on the internet probably enjoy other book-related activity on the internet (going on Goodreads etc, reading blog reviews etc)

 

[Werthead]

I would call that out as dinosaur thinking. People communicate what they enjoy and dislike, and the internet is the world's largest communication tool.

I think these are the same people, who a few years at conferences were also dismissive of Amazon's market share. I think there's still a mentality that most sales are through book shops - but I bet if you strip out the bestsellers most sales would be through Amazon, not book shops.

I think publishers in general simply do not understand the internet.

Well, publishers know better than anyone else how well their books are selling and where they are selling, so that's not an issue.

The publishers who told me that - seven years ago remember - also later set up the SF Gateway programme and published the Encyclopedia of Science Fiction online for free, and are generally much more net-savvy than most.

Where there is usually an overestimation, it's from fans of e-readers. I prefer to read paper books and I've been called a dinosaur for that, yet e-book sales are still only 15% of the market in the UK and less than 20% in the USA. Coming from nothing a few years ago, yes that's hugely impressive, but it's not even close to a majority yet, and it's amusing how many e-reader enthusiasts are totally unaware (or in denial) of that fact.

I'm surprised that Pullman, Martin and Gaiman are so low, considering the huge deal that has been made about their work. Pullman's had one book turned into a movie that grossed 370 mil (the book also has two sequels) and another first book in a series adapted by the BBC. Martin has Thrones plus whatever all the others have earned. Gaiman has had a couple of books turned into movies plus his huge reputation from the comics to drive sales and he's written a few books (if you're counting his juvies).

That's an issue of perception. They are not 'low' at all. Most books sell a few thousand copies and then disappear, and that's often enough for the authors to keep being published (though not enough for them to make a living off writing). So when you're talking about even the low millions of sales, you're getting into really impressive numbers. When you get to Pullman's 15 million sales (of just three books, remember) or Martin's 25 million, you're entering very impressive sales territory.

Gaiman's sales as I've said are an underestimation. He'd sold 7 million Sandman graphic novels alone as of 2008. With everything else he's done - even his arguably most obscure novels have sold a million copies each - he's probably well north of 20 million by now. I just can't find official confirmation of that.

A typical fantasy book might sell 5000 copies. If a fantasy book has 10,000 ratings on Goodreads it's a pretty safe bet it's doing a lot better than average.

These numbers are significant compared to sales figures and therefore significant full stop. Goodreads has 13 million members - that is a decent fraction of the active reading public and certainly large enough to generate meaningful samples.

This is the same problem that Amazon has, however. There are lots of people who will post reviews of things they haven't read, or of sample chapters alone. I've seen people posting one-star reviews of all of the Thomas Covenant books because they read up to the infamous rape scene in Lord Foul's Bane (which happens about 40 pages into Book 1 of the series) and went into a flying rage at the author. Something I think you're slightly familiar with from more than a few reviews by people of Prince of Thorns who clearly haven't read the book There was also one internet commentator who started a major witch-hunt against Scott Bakker because they didn't like the prologue posted free online because it alluded to sexual abuse.

And on the flipside you have the self-published groups who all rate one another's books out of mutual interest regardless of whether they've read them or not. Or certain authors who create 200 dummy accounts just to rate and review their own books. Or the infamous ADWD situation, where people rated the book one star because they had to wait six years for it and wanted to 'pay the author back', but a few months later can be found on fan sites eagerly debating the plot twists in the novel and bemoaning the wait for the next book.

Ultimately I think the Internet is a good place for recommendations and reviews, but the impressions you get from it can be highly distorting.

A good fraction of people buying books on the internet probably enjoy other book-related activity on the internet (going on Goodreads etc, reading blog reviews etc)

On a very good month I get 200,000 hits, which is a tiny fraction of what Amazon gets in an hour There are a few general SFF blogs that do better than me, but not a huge number. Where the real hits go are specific author blogs (Scalzi's probably gets at least 200,000 a day, and he's not even at the top of the tree) and the larger, longer-established and usually publisher-driven websites like Tor.com. But even they're not getting anything like what Amazon does.

Those of us who use the Internet every day and post to discussion boards every day sometimes forget that there's a vast number of people out there who only use the Internet to buy the odd DVD, make the odd Skype call and swap messages with old friends on Facebook.

 

[Ursa major]

...specific author blogs (Scalzi's probably gets at least 200,000 a day, and he's not even at the top of the tree.

I have a regular look at Scalzi's blog, but I have, as yet, not read a word of his fiction. I visit there because the blogposts (his and those of the other authors he invites on) are often interesting.

The other author blog I visit on a regular basis is that of Charles Stross. Again, very interesting. (I have bought many of his books, but I wouldn't read his blog if it didn't inform and entertain me.)

 

[Mark_Lawrence]

This is the same problem that Amazon has, however. There are lots of people who will post reviews of things they haven't read,

All this is true, but I don't feel that 'lots' constitutes a large percentage. After all people who post reviews of books they haven't read are normally punishing the book for perceived crimes - so they're the 1* brigade - nobody reviews a book they've not read to give it 3* or 4* ... and even if every 1* of my debut (for example) was a fake review... it's still only 3% (and while there are obvious fakes there - I suspect it's a small (10%?) percentage of that 3%).

And yes, an author might set up 20 fake accounts, but that sounds like a lot of work, and if we're talking about the moderately successful books (and above) it would take thousands of fake accounts to make an impact on the statistics... which would be ... improbable. After all even that author-who-shall-not-be-named who swamped Amazon with fake rating of his books only managed 300 or so - and he's certainly not used more than that on Goodreads.

So I return to my contention that once the numbers involved are commensurate with sales figures for a typical book (i.e in the 1000s) then the numbers are fairly useful and fairly robust to interference.

 

[Mark_Lawrence]

On a very good month I get 200,000 hits.

I got 35,000 last month, and my blog's rubbish

BIG TIME, baby!