Stark/Targaryen Alliance

[Koopa]

methinks dany isn't fireproof either

 

[ArstenWhitebeard]

Now, if you substitute Rickon for Bran, I won't disagree with you. Yes, bring me a shrubbery... err, I mean Rickon. Bring me a Rickon!
QUOTE]

If you do not bring me a Rickon, i shall say Nit at you.

sorry.

I think Martin said somewhere that Dany isn't exactly fireproof, and that is was a one time deal in order to get her dragons. I could be very wrong, but I don't believe Dany is fireproof anymore. (though she does like her scalding hot baths). It certainly has not been established the being fireproof was a Targaryen trait, at least not one that was prominant or even ever talked about before Dany. obsessed with fire? yes. immune to fire? no.

Ashara, I really like the idea of Rickon and Shireen being betrothed and I think the return of Rickon will be very important to the coming battle against the Boltons.

 

[Ursa major]

(though she does like her scalding hot baths)

And although it isn't (necessarily) canon, the first season of Game of Thrones had Dany holding one of the dragon eggs that had been heated in a fire (for a reason I can't now recall). It burnt the hands of her lady in waiting, but not Dany's own hands. (At least, this is how I remember the scene.)

 

[ArstenWhitebeard]

And although it isn't (necessarily) canon, the first season of Game of Thrones had Dany holding one of the dragon eggs that had been heated in a fire (for a reason I can't now recall). It burnt the hands of her lady in waiting, but not Dany's own hands. (At least, this is how I remember the scene.)

That is indeed true. I believe she put it in the fire to see what would happen, but again, that is Pre-Dragons.

 

[JoanDrake]

methinks dany isn't fireproof either

She sat through a pitch fueled fire for 12 hours, that's 2000 degrees to my knowledge. Asbestos would curl up at that.


There is the fact that her brother couldn't wear Drogos's Gold crown, that's true, but it might have something to do with how pure the blood is, and the Dragons like her, which is the important thing.

 

[ArstenWhitebeard]

sorry for the double post. In an interview, GRRM said this...

Granny: Do Targaryens become immune to fire once they "bond" to their dragons?

George_RR_Martin: Granny, thanks for asking that. It gives me a chance to clear up a common misconception. TARGARYENS ARE NOT IMMUNE TO FIRE! The birth of Dany's dragons was unique, magical, wonderous, a miracle. She is called The Unburnt because she walked into the flames and lived. But her brother sure as hell wasn't immune to that molten gold.

Revanshe: So she won't be able to do it again?

George_RR_Martin: Probably not

This exchange can be found here...

george r r martin - Is Daenerys Targaryen immune to fire? - Science Fiction & Fantasy Stack Exchange

and here...

A question about Daenyrs Targarian in a Song of Ice and Fire (spoilers) - Forum - DakkaDakka

 

[JoanDrake]

I was under the impression that Targaryens were NOT fireproof, only Daenerys was? Didn't Aegon and Duncan die in the fire at Summerhall that Rhaegar was always super mournful about? and didn't some other crazy Targ try to drink wildfire to turn himself into a dragon and die? I think Dany has been burnt a couple of times too, something about Drogon's breath made her skin blister or something. That's a vague memory though.

Dragons as nuclear weapons, now that's certainly a thought!

I'm not a Brit! I'm an Aussie... but I DO have a certain obsession with all these royal bloodlines...despite wanting an Australian Head of State but that's irrelevant and off topic. I always thought the Targaryens married incestuously not to preserve some kind of fireproof power but to preserve the pure Valyrian bloodline and look...I think we're all a bit obsessed with the marrying into other Great Houses, but to be fair the characters are like that too. Look at Walder Frey!

But that's a bit of the point, maybe. When rulership is hereditary, then yes, marriage and bloodlines are all. The Hapsburgs became nearly the rulers of all of Europe by centuries of making good marriages. BUT it still really means actually LESS than nothing in the end. A pure bloodline is a weak and sickly bloodline and a really pure one is usually dead or going to be very soon

 

[Ashara]

Ashara, I really like the idea of Rickon and Shireen being betrothed and I think the return of Rickon will be very important to the coming battle against the Boltons.

Oh wow thank you. If there aren't any more POV for Davos then I shall be mad. I can't see why he'd make the big deal out of Rickon being on Skagos for nothing. The Others, the Boltons, who cares, I'd like to see both dead to be quite honest! That said, I am hoping for a real look at Skagos and what it's like. If we can't go to Asshai, then Skagos is a good compensator.

My comment about Shireen was partly a joke, but now that I look at it, it is quite possible isn't it? Both in the North geographically; a good match for Stannis's daughter alliance wise, and the man who's finding Rickon is close to Stannis and Shireen. Knowing my luck at predicting things (I didn't even think of R+L=J until the internet, nor did I observe any of the foreshadowings of the Red Wedding) none of this will come true and Rickon will have been eaten by a unicorn or something strange.

Speaking of R+L=J, I sincerely hope that a Stark/Targaryen Alliance could be Jon and Dany (or even Arya and Dany, I wouldn't mind) but I just find it somewhat unlikely given how unrealistic and hopeful it is.

 

[Ashara]

But that's a bit of the point, maybe. When rulership is hereditary, then yes, marriage and bloodlines are all. The Hapsburgs became nearly the rulers of all of Europe by centuries of making good marriages. BUT it still really means actually LESS than nothing in the end. A pure bloodline is a weak and sickly bloodline and a really pure one is usually dead or going to be very soon

I agree with you on the weak and sickly bit. Just looking at the Targaryen line shows that they are severely unstable. And their lineage was narrowed quite a bit over the years. There's a reason Viserys called himself the last dragon, he had no cousins because they were his brother and sister. Weird.
But just because we know that pure bloodlines aren't altogether very healthy doesn't mean the characters know. They are very unlikely to marry people of lowborn class (unless of course you're Robb in the show, or you're taking a paramour in Dorne) which is why I think that we tend to think of Great Houses as the only marriage opportunities. Also, reputation comes into it as well. Dany is more likely to gain support by marrying someone well known by everyone around Westeros than by some random. Just an example of course, though.

 

[Ursa major]

Of course, when marrying into other royal (and non-royal but powerful) families, the Hapsburgs were not involved in inbreeding, by definition.

 

[ArstenWhitebeard]

Doing a Re-Read and thought I would throw this quote up.

"The winters are hard," Ned admitted. "But the Starks will endure. We always have"

 

[JoanDrake]

Of course, when marrying into other royal (and non-royal but powerful) families, the Hapsburgs were not involved in inbreeding, by definition.

I agree with you on the weak and sickly bit. Just looking at the Targaryen line shows that they are severely unstable. And their lineage was narrowed quite a bit over the years. There's a reason Viserys called himself the last dragon, he had no cousins because they were his brother and sister. Weird.
But just because we know that pure bloodlines aren't altogether very healthy doesn't mean the characters know. They are very unlikely to marry people of lowborn class (unless of course you're Robb in the show, or you're taking a paramour in Dorne) which is why I think that we tend to think of Great Houses as the only marriage opportunities. Also, reputation comes into it as well. Dany is more likely to gain support by marrying someone well known by everyone around Westeros than by some random. Just an example of course, though.

Avoiding Interbreeding gets progressively difficult over time if you limit the groups you intermarry with though. 500 individuals is seen as the rough minimum for a specie's survival and even with several thousands you're still likely to end up with a lot more cousins procreating than you should. Just look at the Ruling Houses of Europe around WWI.


I have to wonder at whether that might be a major theme in ASoIaF. Martin has various royalty ruling Westeros for several thousand years. By now they must be making the Kallikaks look like diversity health models. Time for a few good healthy bastards like Jon Snow to clear things out.