Fantasy book with themes like goodness, honour and justice

[LightBringer]

Ok. Ayn Rand. Thats interesting.

Not Fantasy, but have you tried JG Ballard? True SF morality tales

The Drowned World
The Crystal World
The Wind From Nowhere

What I love about The Fountainhead is the incredible strength and perseverance of the main character. He never compromises his ideals, he always keeps his integrity and he never gives in. I find that very inspiring. Now, I don't share Ayn Rand's political views, but she certainly succeeded in making a beautiful story in my mind.

If those books you mentioned have similarities with The Fountainhead they could very well be worth checking out.

Also Concrete Island, Crash, and High Rise... though these are a bit harder to take at times....

On Moorcock: He was never interested (save perhaps in the Sojan stories) in simplistic notions of these concepts, but frankly I'd say the struggle to establish a humane form of them, and maintain it with all the implications of the term "humane", lies at the core of all his work. Ambiguity is there, certainly (e.g., Glogauer in Breakfast in the Ruins -- one of my favorites of his novels -- who pretty much runs the gamut in his various lives... not to mention Jerry Cornelius), but to me that is because he is exploring the necessary nuances of finding that balance which allows one to be both "good", "just", etc., while also remaining a dynamic force in the world around one. Also, his concerns are for the establishing of a truly just and humane order in the larger scheme of things, which means a rather wide range of approaches to solutions are exhibited in dramatic terms in his work.

This sounds interesting. You seem to know your literature and what you describe might be something I could enjoy reading. I like it when the characters are complex enough to feel realistic. Flaws make them human and easier to relate to than when they are portrayed as perfect.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

Haven't read these, but after reading a thread about the books on this forum, I'm guessing they are not what the OP is after:

"I don't read a book to become depressed or to revel in the cruel and treacherous behaviour of the characters."

Yep, definitely not an antidote. Mark makes George Martin look cheery.

 

[jastius]

sorry... ok, so how about some about the pretty ponies then?

peter s beagle, the last unicorn
R. A. MacAvoy, the grey horse
Piers Anthony's Apprentice Adept series
C. J. Cherryh, Rider at the Gate
Judith Tarr, Lady of Horses
Doranna Durgin, Dun Lady's Jess
Jean Slaughter Doty, Can I Get There by Candlelight?
madelien l'engle, a wrinkle in time
anna sewell, black beauty
mercedes lackey, to catch a thief
c.s. lewis, a horse and his boy
joanne bertin, dragon and phoenix...

(to name a few)

 

[Extollager]

I want to read a story about honour, bravery, goodness as well as the dark things that are necessary to make the story exciting and worth investing your time in.

I really recommend C. S. Lewis's oft-overlooked mythic novel for adults, Till We Have Faces, a version of the myth of Cupid and Psyche.

You would enjoy at least the first three of Ursula Le Guin's Earthsea books: A Wizard of Earthsea, The Tombs of Atuan, The Farthest Shore. I wasn't as well pleased by Tehanu and haven't yet read two or three later books.

You'll find meat to your taste in Lars Walker's heroic fantasy novels such as The Year of the Warrior, or Blood and Judgment, etc.

If you're open to non-ancient or non-medieval - type settings, I can recommend Chesterton's inventive The Man Who Was Thursday and Tim Powers's Declare!

 

[j d worthington]

This sounds interesting. You seem to know your literature and what you describe might be something I could enjoy reading. I like it when the characters are complex enough to feel realistic. Flaws make them human and easier to relate to than when they are portrayed as perfect.

Some of Moorcock's fantasies are a bit less complex than others, of course; and, what with him being a ridiculously prolific writer, you may encounter one or two of those early on as well... but most of his work does deal with the nuances and complexities inherent in that struggle I mentioned.

Incidentally, one of my favorite quotes from him is from the Cornelius novel, The English Assassin:

"The war, my friends, is ceaseless. The most we can expect in our lives are a few pauses in the struggle, a few moments of tranquillity. We must appreciate those moments while we have them."

There are variations of this statement here and there in his work, but essentially this is the central theme of all of it: that struggle to maintain a balance between the individual and society; liberty and responsibility; humanity and a realistic response to necessity. Of course, this (and the fact that the Eternal Struggle -- or War) is the central metaphor of all his work means that there are some very troubling things in them (again, e.g., Breakfast in the Ruins, or The Brothel in Rosenstrasse), but they are never gratuitous nor there merely to shock.

At any rate, should you choose to try some of his work, you may find this thread (and/or those with links included there) helpful:

http://www.sffchronicles.co.uk/foru...ing-order-or-whatever-happened-to-series.html

I should note, however, that there are several items which have come out in the intervening years, and which I have (for one reason or another) never found the time to include in an update....

 

[Stephen Palmer]

sorry... ok, so how about some about the pretty ponies then?

peter s beagle, the last unicorn

Has anyone here seen the animated film of this? I bought it on DVD recently and am wondering if I should read the book...

 

[Marite]

T. H. White "The Once and Future King"

 

[River Boy]

William Morris books have a good heart to them, if you can stand his style. I think his prose flows really well, full of alliteration which I like, but I'm told it's an acquired taste.

Water of the Wondrous Isles I find particularly heart-warming on the values of friendship.

Here's the opening:

Whilom, as tells the tale, was a walled cheaping-town hight Utterhay, which was builded in a bight of the land a little off the great highway which went from over the mountains to the sea.


The said town was hard on the borders of a wood, which men held to be mighty great, or maybe measureless; though few indeed had entered it, and they that had, brought back tales wild and confused thereof.


Therein was neither highway nor byway, nor wood-reeve nor way-warden; never came chapman thence into Utterhay; no man of Utterhay was so poor or so bold that he durst raise the hunt therein; no outlaw durst flee thereto; no man of God had such trust in the saints that he durst build him a cell in that wood.


For all men deemed it more than perilous; and some said that there walked the worst of the dead; othersome that the Goddesses of the Gentiles haunted there; others again that it was the faery rather, but they full of malice and guile. But most commonly it was deemed that the devils swarmed amidst of its thickets, and that wheresoever a man sought to, who was once environed by it, ever it was the Gate of Hell whereto he came. And the said wood was called Evilshaw.

 

[devaed]

Patrick Rothfuss' Kingkiller Chronicles (Name of the Wind and Wise Man's Fear) are very, very good fantasy books that I think would suit. In my head at least, they're almost diametrically opposed to GRRM's gritty style, which is one of the reasons I like them so much. Having said that...

Flaws make them human and easier to relate to than when they are portrayed as perfect.

The main character in Kingkiller is brilliant, handsome, witty and pretty much excels at everything... so it depends on whether you think you'd find that annoying. Apparently some people do, but I personally don't.

Otherwise, I second the Wheel of Time and Mistborn series as very good choices. In fact, I think just about anything else by Brandon Sanderson would fit the criteria, too.

 

[lauren$77]

Has anyone here seen the animated film of this? I bought it on DVD recently and am wondering if I should read the book...

I've read the book - its quite whimsical, lyrical and poetic. But if you've seen the film there are no surprises in plot/story. I did just recently got the graphic novel for my birthday, the illustrations are done by Renae DeLiz and are gorgeous. I'd definitely recommend buying it!

 

[Rolynd]

Thanks for the suggestions. I really appreciate it!



Darkness is necessary for the story to be thrilling and I have nothing against moral ambiguity. Characters struggling with difficult decisions between right and wrong can make quite interesting reading if it is done well. However, nowadays, when someone says moral ambiguity it often seems to mean the characters are more evil than good. When almost every character in a story is this way it becomes depressing to read and any admiration for this type of character is impossible for me. I want there to be at least one obvious hero (he/she doesn't have to be perfect though), and there can be all kinds of characters in between this good guy and the ultimate villain (like for instance Sauron). Truly evil characters are there because we love to have someone to hate. Many great stories have at least one truly despicable character because their terrible actions awakens emotions in the readers and makes us invest in the story. We want some justice for the offended party, sometimes revenge is even more satisfying. Characters who are more morally grey can serve as a foil for the good guy(s) (like Gail Wynand does for Howard Roark in The Fountainhead) and make us see what kind of persons they are. The hero himself can of course do wrong things and be forced to face the consequences of his actions, even if they are severe. But there has to be someone for me to root for who isn't killed off for the sole purpose off messing with my head.

A story of a fallen hero can also be interesting (examples are Anakin Skywalker in Star Wars or Arthas Menethil in Warcraft 3) because in these kinds of stories you can sympathize with the hero/villain and understand why he does the things he does even though many of his actions are wrong. All in all, I guess you can say I want the good and the bad to balance out somewhat.

You need to read David Gemmell, straight away. You've basically just described most of his books. He has the knack of writing his heroes as undeniably good and heroic, yet not one dimensional and bland. They have flaws, and they make mistakes. White Wolf is probably my favourite.

 

[Extollager]

Water of the Wondrous Isles I find particularly heart-warming on the values of friendship.

I'd read The Wood Beyond the World and The Well at the World's End many years before, when I read almost nothing but sf and (especially) fantasy (including Lovecraft); about 30 years later, I wasn't sure if I'd like this one, but I did.

 

[Randy M.]

I've read the book - its quite whimsical, lyrical and poetic. But if you've seen the film there are no surprises in plot/story. I did just recently got the graphic novel for my birthday, the illustrations are done by Renae DeLiz and are gorgeous. I'd definitely recommend buying it!

That sounds right -- it's been years since I saw the movie and so the memory is a bit hazy -- but if you enjoy good writing combined with a wry sense of humor and a huge compassion for people and their foibles, you'll want to read the book.

Randy M.

 

[LightBringer]

Patrick Rothfuss' Kingkiller Chronicles (Name of the Wind and Wise Man's Fear) are very, very good fantasy books that I think would suit. In my head at least, they're almost diametrically opposed to GRRM's gritty style, which is one of the reasons I like them so much. Having said that...

Opposite of GRRM. That seems promising

The main character in Kingkiller is brilliant, handsome, witty and pretty much excels at everything... so it depends on whether you think you'd find that annoying. Apparently some people do, but I personally don't.

I don't mind the hero being an exceptional individual. Howard Roark is so strong, so capable and so incredibly unyielding that some might say that no one could be this way in real life. But the way he's described in the story really makes it work and as a consequence he ends up being a really inspiring character. Thank you for the recommendation.

I really recommend C. S. Lewis's oft-overlooked mythic novel for adults, Till We Have Faces, a version of the myth of Cupid and Psyche.

You would enjoy at least the first three of Ursula Le Guin's Earthsea books: A Wizard of Earthsea, The Tombs of Atuan, The Farthest Shore. I wasn't as well pleased by Tehanu and haven't yet read two or three later books.

You'll find meat to your taste in Lars Walker's heroic fantasy novels such as The Year of the Warrior, or Blood and Judgment, etc.

Lots of suggestions that seem promising. The title 'Blood and Judgement' certainly sounds like a book after my own heart. Thanks

You need to read David Gemmell, straight away. You've basically just described most of his books. He has the knack of writing his heroes as undeniably good and heroic, yet not one dimensional and bland. They have flaws, and they make mistakes. White Wolf is probably my favourite.

Excellent. I certainly will. Thank you!

 

[River Boy]

I'd read The Wood Beyond the World and The Well at the World's End many years before, when I read almost nothing but sf and (especially) fantasy (including Lovecraft); about 30 years later, I wasn't sure if I'd like this one, but I did.

Pleased to hear it, I think it would be considered groundbreaking (if anyone noticed it) for placing the 'damsel in distress' at the heart of the narrative rather than the hero. That's why I find it so interesting, Birdalone finds herself in far more complicated situations as the damsel than the knights do and has to dig deeper and draw on a wide range of strengths in order to survive, which would be less intriguing if she could just chop everyone's head off with a sword.

 

[Manteuffel]

You need to read David Gemmell, straight away. You've basically just described most of his books. He has the knack of writing his heroes as undeniably good and heroic, yet not one dimensional and bland. They have flaws, and they make mistakes. White Wolf is probably my favourite.

Great author choice! And another Gemmell book "Winter Warriors" is especially apropos, with three over-the-hill fighters who, though rejected by their king, are called back into service for one final mission. This book is full of the heroism, honor, and all the other themes the OP likes to see in a book. There was even one scene involving the character Bison toward the end that brought a tear to my eye (which I quickly dabbed away, so no one would see!).

 

[Hex]

Carol Berg -- especially the Regeneration trilogy, but anything she writes.

 

[biodroid]

Raymond E. Feist, nuff said

 

[svalbard]

Great author choice! And another Gemmell book "Winter Warriors" is especially apropos, with three over-the-hill fighters who, though rejected by their king, are called back into service for one final mission. This book is full of the heroism, honor, and all the other themes the OP likes to see in a book. There was even one scene involving the character Bison toward the end that brought a tear to my eye (which I quickly dabbed away, so no one would see!).

I will add my voice to Gemmell. Along with honour and justice, redemption plays a huge part in all of his stories. I particularly loved Morningstar.

You could also have a look at Tad Williams Memory, Thorn and Sorrow series. Not so much fantasy, but William Horwood's Duncton series is excellent, especially the first 3 books. The series is about a colony of moles(think Watership Down and add epic) and has all the elements discussed in this thread.

 

[AndrewT]

Based on your specifications I highly recommend Jim Butcher's "Codex Alera", six books, 4000+ pages of sheer fun. Many people's favorites for high fantasy like you describe are David Gemmel's "Drenai Tales" (eleven books total including Skilgannon books) and also Raymond Feist's Magician series which I have not yet read. Robin Hobb may be good as well.