POV's

[hopewrites]

So I'm working on a short story, and as I'm going through the edit and trying to get more of what is in my head out on the page. I wonder.

If one can have close 3rd, can one have distant 1st? or are they essentially the same.
A POV that hovers just outside the MC's head.

And if the story is in distant 1st not close 3rd. When I switch perspectives for that one scene...

*wanders off muttering to herself slightly unaware she has asked a question, but determined to come back later for an answer*

 

[Victoria Silverwolf]

The only thing I can think of for a "distant first person" would be to have the narrator relate only physical experiences, without any interior musings or emotions and such. Something like "I pulled the trigger. The man fell over. I took the money out of his wallet and threw the rest out." (I'm using a crime example because it seems that this kind of cold-blooded first person narration would fit that genre.) Contrast with something like "I pulled the trigger and watched the dirty little creep die." This would be close first person, in my mind.

 

[BenSt]

I have seen it done elsewhere where you intersperce parts of the story with journal excerpts or monologues, so as to make it seem first person, even if your overall story is generally in 3rd person. Anne rice does this very well with her books where Lestat or Louis is describing the scene almost as if it were in 3rd person. I don't know how effective it is though, in my writing I'm a complete purist and havn't really done something like this, I suppose how it is done will show if it works or not.

 

[Mouse]

I don't think there is such a thing, meself. But, I agree with Victoria.

 

[hopewrites]

hmm. I was thinking it be a bit more like Elmo telling a story. It should be in first but the narrator keeps talking in third.

example;
Hope sat staring at het phone tring to think how to discribe her thought process to her friends. But as nothing came to mind she decided to just babble at them instead.
"I cant think how to diacribe it guys. maybe I'm worrying over nothing."
with a little sigh she wrapped up her post and went back to having a cloudy and disapointing day.

 

[Mouse]

That's third person.

 

[hopewrites]

yeah but its sorced first. does that matter?

*see i dont know about POV rules.

 

[Mouse]

I don't really understand what you mean, m'dear. Your example is all in third person, with some dialogue.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

Using Hope instead of I makes it third. Otherwise, there's mimimal difference between first and close third.

 

[The Judge]

It isn't a POV rule, hope. It's just what it is.

First person is written with I/me/my/mine -- "I picked up the phone to dial the takeaway. For me, pizza is the best. I do love my pizza."

Second person is you/your -- "You picked up the phone. What was your reason?"

Third person is he/him/his or she/her/hers or they/them/their -- "She shoved his pizza box in the bin. He was such a schmuck, but she loved him."

 

[lauren$77]

Can someone explain the difference between close third and ominiscient third? I'm somewhat confused by this! I'd never even heard of close third until I came to this forum? thanks

 

[Mouse]

Close third is when you're inside the character's brain. Omniscient is when you're looking at them from the outside. Close third is usually character voice. Omniscient is narrator voice.

 

[hopewrites]

so... close third sticks to being omniscient about one character, and omniscient is omniscient about all of them?

Just want to be sure I've got it right.
and distant first isnt anything.

 

[Mouse]

Close third is close third and omniscient is omniscient. You can write a novel with several POVs and use close third for each POV, or you can write a novel with a narrator and that's omniscient. (Hopefully, I'm not confusing things!)

 

[Jo Zebedee]

Can someone explain the difference between close third and ominiscient third? I'm somewhat confused by this! I'd never even heard of close third until I came to this forum? thanks

Like Mouse says, close third is one character in their voice: their thoughts, in their voice/accent. Omni switches between characters' thoughts, but the narrator tells the story.

so... close third sticks to being omniscient about one character, and omniscient is omniscient about all of them?

Just want to be sure I've got it right.
and distant first isnt anything.

Sort of. Close third is the character - their thoughts, how they feel, everything. Like being Hope. A more distant third woud be like watching Hope on the stage - not feeling your feelings, but watching them. Omnipresent is like being the director, not the actor, carrying an overview to tell a story rather than experiencing it.

 

[Mouse]

springs says it better.

 

[Ursa major]

To answer the original question, you can have distant first person if you want to.

As has been pointed out above, the degree of closeness in a third person narrative depends on how much that narrative merely describes what is going on as opposed to delving into the thoughts and motivations of the PoV character.

Note that merely being distant (or "less close") is not the same as being omniscient. The PoV character may not let the reader know anything about their thoughts and internal reactions, but if the narrative sticks to what only the narrator can experience (see, hear, feel) it is not omniscient.


It seems to me that a first person narrative can't (or shouldn't) be completely** omniscient, but it can be distant, by restricting the descriptions to what the PoV character experiences and not what they think and how they react internally to the outside world (as Victoria said in post#2).



** - If the PoV character is relating something from the past, about which they've discovered things they couldn't have experienced at the time they occurred, they can appear to be omniscient. (This is, obviously, a rather easier trick to pull off when writing in the past tense rather than in the present tense.)

 

[HareBrain]

For example, omniscient can tell you what's happening behind the character, or while they're asleep. Close third can't because it's limited to the POV character's experience (their thoughts and sensory input).

Sometimes omniscient doesn't even have a POV character: the narrator can talk about what's happening in a place where none of the characters are.

 

[chrispenycate]

I was having difficulties with the concept. After all, first person puts the reader behind the eyes and between the ears of the protagonist. To get sufficiently alienated from oneself that the link becomes 'distant' indicates severe psychological problems.

But it does suggest some interesting unusual viewpoints:-

First person fly on the wall – "I crawl across the textured wallpaper and stick my proboscis into the splash of pizza topping. Delicious – why had she thrown the slice at him? Some bizarre human mating ritual? The wall itself vibrated as the door was slammed and he looked out bemused through tomato and mozarella…"

First person omniscient – "I am Chrispy, walking encyclopedia, repository of all knowledge. Attend upon me, ignorant reader, for I know who killed this man, and I will inform you – in another two hundred pages."

Close narration – "Cringe, thou bolshie character. Thou shalt obey, thou shalt perform the actions that bring thee to the culmination I have planned or I shalt write thee out of the plot and into a job int the Inland Revenue."

D:

 

[Ursa major]

That brings back vague memories of a book about a man eventually cured of his addiction to whaling. It began

Call me Rehab
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or something like that.

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