Hyperion or A Fire Upon the Deep?

[J-Sun]

Okay, I see where you're coming from. But I liked the story enough that I didn't mind and that aspect is basically just an extended, complicated riff on Anderon's Brain Wave and I liked that one, too.

 

[psikeyhackr]

Okay, I see where you're coming from. But I liked the story enough that I didn't mind and that aspect is basically just an extended, complicated riff on Anderon's Brain Wave and I liked that one, too.

Well actually, Brainwave was a thought provoking story. I do not find that to be the case with Fire Upon the Deep. I like stories that cause me to think about them months or even years later.

Can these computer tablets with the proper educational software make children smarter starting about 3 years old? What would the long term social effects of that be. I find it really strange that we do not have a National Recommended Reading List. Does any country have one?

Fo instance, double-entry accounting is 700 years old. Why hasn't it been mandatory in our high schools for the last 40 or 50 years? What would the state of the economy be today if it had been. And that is an alternate history that would not even require sci-fi technology.

Sci-fi worth reading should be more than just entertainment.

psik

 

[vanye]

Fire Upon The Deep I thought was alright, if a bit hard on the suspense of disbelief in places. The one that really grabbed me was A Deepness In The Sky. Hyperion I found readable, but not much more. Really wondered what the hype was about when I read it.

... Sci-fi worth reading should be more than just entertainment.

psik

Oh well, we'll just have to differ on this one.

 

[psikeyhackr]

Oh well, we'll just have to differ on this one.

OK, maybe I exaggerated.

But there is serious science fiction and there is fun science fiction. The serious SF can be fun too but I don't have as high opinion of the stuff that is just fun.

The fun SF I really only enjoy while I am reading it. But serious SF does come to mind years later and I am more likely to read it multiple times.

psik

 

[johnnyjet]

I love both books also! Among my all time favorites. Slight edge to the Simmons. However, I agree with Boreas' opinion: Probably best to start with the Vinge.

 

[Bick]

My personal preference is for Fire Upon the Deep. I liked lots of things about it, it had several novel ideas, and it stands alone perfectly well.

Hyperion I enjoyed too, and it sticks in the mind for a long time. However, I have a few gripes. The main gripe being that you read the whole book (interesting and enjoyable collection of novellas that it is) and find that at the end it doesn't conclude... it hmm, sort of starts on the last page. Which I found rather annoying. I have never read the follow ups as it happens - so that tells you something. I don't actually agree with J-Sun and psik that its not really SF though. It seems like SF to me, albeit there are some fantastical elements. I would classify it as SF with threads of 'magical realism'.

 

[vanye]

OK, maybe I exaggerated.

But there is serious science fiction and there is fun science fiction. The serious SF can be fun too but I don't have as high opinion of the stuff that is just fun.

The fun SF I really only enjoy while I am reading it. But serious SF does come to mind years later and I am more likely to read it multiple times.

psik

Can you specify what exactly you mean by serious? For example, the original Star Trek series might be considered serious, because it picked up on contemporary themes. But would you really?

Oh, not to forget my obligatory bow to theory: Of course, a text as such cannot be serious. Only a reading of it can be serious or not-serious or whatever.

 

[Grunkins]

Having read them both now, it's hard to see how they were in the same space in my brain prior to reading them. I saw them as somehow similar. In reality they couldn't be further apart in just about every way. Fire upon the Deep is more of a page turning, story driven, fun read. And Hyperion is more of a high concept, sprawling, artistic, excellent read.

Both well deserve reading, and both kept me up at night reading just a couple more pages.

Regarding Hyperion's ending, I would have been fine if there were no sequel. I finished the book feeling full and satisfied. The story wasn't about their destination, it was about their journey.

 

[psikeyhackr]

Can you specify what exactly you mean by serious? For example, the original Star Trek series might be considered serious, because it picked up on contemporary themes. But would you really?

It depends on how cynical you are about reality. I thought of Kirk as The Lone Ranger and Spock as Tonto from the time the show first appeared. So to me the Mirror, Mirror episode was great. Tonto telling The Lone Ranger that he had orders to kill him was hysterically funny.

But how much is the Real World really like what is portrayed in Mirror, Mirror? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6p5pXqQEGM4

Oh, not to forget my obligatory bow to theory: Of course, a text as such cannot be serious. Only a reading of it can be serious or not-serious or whatever.

We know that symbols are produced by the author and the reader has to interpret the symbols. Sometimes the reader can think something is that that the author did not intend or miss something that he did. Talking about the symbols unread is pseudo-intellectual nonsense.

psik

 

[vanye]

It depends on how cynical you are about reality. I thought of Kirk as The Lone Ranger and Spock as Tonto from the time the show first appeared. So to me the Mirror, Mirror episode was great. Tonto telling The Lone Ranger that he had orders to kill him was hysterically funny.

But how much is the Real World really like what is portrayed in Mirror, Mirror? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6p5pXqQEGM4

We know that symbols are produced by the author and the reader has to interpret the symbols. Sometimes the reader can think something is that that the author did not intend or miss something that he did. Talking about the symbols unread is pseudo-intellectual nonsense.

psik

Hm, very little here I would disagree on. However, it does not answer the question what exactly you mean by serious.

 

[psikeyhackr]

Hm, very little here I would disagree on. However, it does not answer the question what exactly you mean by serious.

I consider the Mirror, Mirror episode to be serious because I think the real world is far more like the mirror universe than the utopian Federation that Roddenberry envisioned.

Now and then the tip of the iceberg appears.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqIHKWd9rSc

I didn't know about that in the 60s, I was just watching the Vietnam War on television. But it is like The Matrix. There is something wrong with the world. You felt it all your life. Like a splinter in your mind driving you mad.

psik

 

[vanye]

So, which pill would you have taken?

 

[psikeyhackr]

So, which pill would you have taken?

I think I was given some red liquid intravenously decades before The Matrix.

The Screwing of the Average Man (1974) by David Hapgood
Economic Rape of America - The Worst Professional Screwmasters
The screwing of the average man: David Hapgood: Amazon.com: Books

psik

 

[vanye]

I'm afraid my color would be blue. Typical escapist reader and no personal valor a-tall.

 

[JaimeRetief]

Hyperion had excellent world building and a pretty decent plot, but it was trying too hard to be high literature.
And most of the characters are quite annoying and unremarkable.
Go with Vinge, his impact on the genre will be remembered long after we forget Simmons IMO.

 

[BAYLOR]

Both are great books and worth reading.

 

[SilentRoamer]

Hyperion, IMO, is not a single book, it is the first and better half of a book.

It literally has a total non ending and I immediately had to read Fall of Hyperion, which wile enjoyable did not live up to the expectation set by Hyperion which I found to be a fantastic read - Martin Silenus being a joy to read for me.

I have never read Vinge but he is on my to hit list.

 

[psikeyhackr]

Hyperion, IMO, is not a single book, it is the first and better half of a book.

Exactly!

 

[JaimeRetief]

Hyperion, IMO, is not a single book, it is the first and better half of a book.

Yes, and there were two more after that, however Hyperion can be quite enjoyable even if you do not read anything else of the Cantos.

 

[SilentRoamer]

I would have to disagree with Hyperion being enjoyable as a standalone. If Hyperion ended and there was no Fall of Hyperion, then I (personally) would not have found it satisfying, although my tastes do not dictate others preferences.

I have not read the Endymion pair yet although I do have them hiding somewhere.