Peerage: Nobility, Titles, and Address

[David Evil Overlord]

Is she originally noble or common before she entered the clergy? When did common people in your fictional land start using last names? Did nobles have last names earlier than the commons (last names probably title/estate related)?

 

[Abernovo]

This is not really peerage-related, as it is to do with honorifics of the clergy:

I've been researching the proper term for one of my characters to say, essentially, 'Hi, I've been sent by the Abbess'.

The web tells me the correct honorifics are: The Reverend (Rev.) Mother Superior Mary, The Very Reverend (V. Rev.) Abbess Mary, Reverend Mother Mary, Mother Mary.

So, just to check, the name used would be the first name, not her surname, right? It's annoying as I want her to be termed 'The Very Reverend Liprot' or 'Abbess Liprot' which is a last name. But I suppose I'll have to work on a first name, now.

pH

Uh, can't sleep. Saw this.
If the church is similar to the Western Church of the Middle Ages, the woman in question may have given up her name upon joining the church and taken a new one, hence Sister Marie Jeanne, etc. In some cases, as with men who joined the clergy, she may have retained her forename, but she may have taken a second name upon her marriage to Christ.

But, if your messenger was speaking to someone who knew the Abbess as a subordinate, they might simply say, 'The Reverend Mother has sent me.' If a passing acquaintance, then perhaps 'The Reverend Mother of St Catherine's Abbey has sent me." In that case, her title is more important than her name, same as 'the King commands you to attend him'. You don't ask which king, or his name, unless there is a treaty being drawn up between two or more, and they're both present. Same if an archbishop sends for you - their title and diocese seat is primary.

Most of the time you'd only use her name would be for formal occasions, often in written records: Mary, Mother Superior of St Catherine's Abbey, did this day come to court; or informally, if a senior nun or priest was on personal speaking terms with her, and probably only in private.

 

[Brian G Turner]

The web tells me the correct honorifics are

Remember that while we're used to standardisation in modern times, the mediaeval period certainly did not have standardisation. Titles and forms of address continued to develop and evolve through the period. So I would go on whatever works for you, and justify it as local variation.

Use of a surname will imply a noble background, however, or a family name otherwise considered important in a particular area of land - perhaps where links to the nobility are too distant to really apply, and is simply being re-used by the largest landowner.

2c.

 

[The Judge]

Yes, I've only ever seen the Christian name used, which, of course, might not the actual name the Abbess was given at her christening, as Abernovo says, since they could and did take new names upon entering the convent. I'm not sure if it was compulsory, or just widespread.

 

[Phyrebrat]

Thanks so much for the detailed replies. This actually helps me more than just the original question.

The abbess is called 'Gothida' which means 'Holy War' in medieval-speak apparently. The surname thing was a little arch, to be honest. She ended up being sent to a convent from an early (marrying) age as she was so disfigured and not a good prospect. Her background standing is vague - she's a nasty piece of work without a POV and 'Liprot' as her surname seems a bit OTT to me now (she has no lips).

pH

 

[Eli Grey]

Am currently reading Medieval Underpants and Other Blunders: A Writer's (& Editor's) Guide to Keeping Historical Fiction Free of Common Anachronisms, Errors, & Myths and other Blunders by Susanne Alleyn.

I thought it was worth the low Kindle price for the section on underwear alone.

However, there's an entire chapter on peerage, titles, and how to address the nobility, and it's made me realise I've completely cocked up in this area!

(I've been using surnames for lords, thinking I needed them - which is a massive boo-boo if keeping to the fineries of English peerage).

Anyway, a potentially interesting read in the first place:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1490424032/?tag=brite-21

However, for free online sources dealing with how to name members of the nobility in fiction or fact, how they are titled and addressed, here are a couple of potentially useful links:
Addressing People with Titles | Forms of Address - Titles and Titled People
British Titles of Nobility

An additional point - according to Alleyn, no English king was ever addressed as "Your majesty" until Henry VIII and after.

Food for thought!

This is much needed. Thanks.