Opinions on Pro and Epilogues

[Hex]

Just to address alc's point about people not reading the prologue, and connect in to Toby's about epicness -- I will normally read the prologue, but:

• I will hate you if you kill the POV character at the end of it because, as others have said, I resent getting attached to someone and then having them killed off. You will have to work hard to get me interested in the next POV character because I suspect you of intending to kill them off as well.
• Connected to this -- and this is completely personal preference -- the sort of writers who introduce people just to kill them tend to be making a point about the gruesomeness of life in whatever period, and their story tends to be far bigger than any one person (e.g. "A tale of the politics and intrigues of several generations", not, "A story about Fred the pot boy who discovers a magic sword and...". While I've had enough of Fred and his relatives, I far prefer stories where the author starts with the person we're interested in.
• If the prologue's about gods or myths, I will give it about three sentences to interest me and then I will skim through it. If it's longer than a page, I'll skip it.

In other thoughts, though I don't write epicy stuff, I've been discouraged from writing prologues (or anything that might be considered a prologue) and epilogues by my agent.

 

[Kissmequick]

A few random thoughts

1 -- A prologue in fantasy is not the kiss of death, publishing wise (they still get used a lot in books currently coming out. I was actually asked to add one at one stage, but in the end we didn't use it)

2 -- That said, you use it when you need to, like everything else. It should have a specific purpose -- to bring up a plot question, establish a mystery. Whatever. Don't add it because you can't think how else to cram in backstory. Use it to cram in plot/characterisation.

3 -- A prologue that is "The last two thousand years of history" ...yeah, that's probably not going to work these days*. Make it a scene, show us something -- a person, doing something active.

4 -- Make it intriguing. Give the reader a reason to turn to chapter one. Just like any other scene.





*Anything can work if you're a genius. We are not all geniuses. Well, I know I'm not at any rate.

 

[Phyrebrat]

Hi, I have been following this thread.

I don't - or haven't yet - use(d) prologues but two things I wanted to say were:

1) what Zombiewife and Alc said earlier. What they've said really encapsulates this whole issue for me. I'm a very passive reader - there are a few things that irritate me, but forewords, prologues, epilogues, footnotes and appendices aren't some of them. I just let the author lead me - and I'd give them at least a hundred pages to do so. In fact the thought of tossing a book aside that I have invested 100 pages in, would be anathema to my OCDishness.*

2) Because I was interested, your post made me look on the internet for opinions and so on, and I enjoyed these.

http://blog.nathanbransford.com/2009/03/prologues.html
http://thewritingplace.wordpress.com/2009/07/24/story-elements-using-a-prologue/

And (okay, 3 things!) this is helpful, too! And not just regarding prologues.

7 Deadly Sins of Prologues–Great Novel Beginnings Part 2 | Kristen Lamb's Blog (change the 2, to 1 for part 1)

Hope this helps, and thanks for piquing my interest

pH

*I loooooooaaaathe Vampires and Werewolves (used to love them as a kid but all this glitter horror has bored the <beep> out of me) but recently I watched Hemlock Grove not knowing it was about werewolves - but even so, as I had watched the first 2 episodes I stuck and watched the whole series of 13 episodes. And even though I wasn't enjoying it, I stuck at it. Sad, huh?

 

[lonewolfwanderer]

I am hijacking this thread, and re-opening it, but my question is relevant.

I have to ask... if one were to use a prologue, what would it's actual purpose be?

In my WIP i have a dream scene, which is actually a memory of an event that happens prior to the start of the book. At first, i had it at the end of my first chapter. But i felt if works better as a prologue (I've just started reading a book by Sarah Ash where her prologue does something similar).

However, my first ever 'Beta-reader' has just told me it is out of sync and that "a prologue must provide a deeper history and perspective to add meat to the novel, greater background to add appreciation to the ultimate enjoyment of the novel as a whole."

Those who have read my original critiquing piece will have read the "dream scene" and will know what the scene is.
But i don't know if it is suitable as a prologue or not, so I could use your advice on what a prologue should really be about (if one were used)?

 

[sknox]

I can't figure it. I don't see any purpose for a prologue. None of my favorite writers have ever used one. Joseph Conrad, Graham Greene, Dostoevsky, Tolstoy ... you will note none of these are fantasy writers. Raymond Chandler never used an prologue.

That's because there is no need. No function. No purpose. If it's fluff, cut it. If it's not fluff, in belongs in a chapter, even if it's not Chapter One.

Not Bradbury, not Asimov, not Moorcock, not Sturgeon ... can I go home now?

 

[martin321]

I have to ask... if one were to use a prologue, what would its actual purpose be?

Prologues tend to be used for one of three reasons:

1) To show events that happened a long time before the main story starts, but which greatly affect the main story. E.g. a prologue shows someone burying something, then the rest of the book is about what happens when the object is dug up many years later.

2) To show events from a different POV than the rest of the story. E.g. a crime novel might start with a prologue from the POV of the killer, and then the rest of the book is from the POV of the detective.

3) To info-dump lots of background information that the author thinks the reader needs to know. Fantasy novels used to do this a lot. Try to avoid doing it, as these prologues are usually extremely boring to read.

I think that it should be fine to move your dream sequence into a prologue and then change it from a dream into actual past events.

 

[Tyburn]

My first chapter could probably be considered a prologue, though I don't think of it as such - it introduces the character the hero has to save and shows his predicament. The hero himself is introduced in the second chapter. I can't really see it working with the hero's introduction moved to the first chapter.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

My first chapter could probably be considered a prologue, though I don't think of it as such - it introduces the character the hero has to save and shows his predicament. The hero himself is introduced in the second chapter. I can't really see it working with the hero's introduction moved to the first chapter.

Why not. He's your MC, who we should buy into - shouldn't he start it? I had this with one of my books - a prologue with the secondary character. It was a good prologue, popular, set the scene and arguably more engaging than the start of chapter one. It also no longer exists. I was wedded to it as the writer, not the reader - and they wanted the guy they were supposed to be rooting for for 80,000 words. Pity. It really was good.

 

[lonewolfwanderer]

Prologues tend to be used for one of three reasons:

1) To show events that happened a long time before the main story starts, but which greatly affect the main story. E.g. a prologue shows someone burying something, then the rest of the book is about what happens when the object is dug up many years later.

2) To show events from a different POV than the rest of the story. E.g. a crime novel might start with a prologue from the POV of the killer, and then the rest of the book is from the POV of the detective.

3) To info-dump lots of background information that the author thinks the reader needs to know. Fantasy novels used to do this a lot. Try to avoid doing it, as these prologues are usually extremely boring to read.

I think that it should be fine to move your dream sequence into a prologue and then change it from a dream into actual past events.

The dream is, in fact, a memory of a past event. Changing it to the prologue, will cancel the "dreaminess" out of it. It will be viewed as the aforementioned past event, which will provide a few cliffhangers for the reader (such as, how did the MC survive, etc.). I guess it would fit into your first category...

 

[tinkerdan]

Prologues can end up being introductions and in this case usually to a fantasy world. It would contain info-dump but it does not exclude you telling and showing it through an interesting story.

If it has a purpose such as info-dump then you want to make it the best damn info-dump you've ever done because it's right there at the beginning.

 

[lonewolfwanderer]

Prologues can end up being introductions and in this case usually to a fantasy world. It would contain info-dump but it does not exclude you telling and showing it through an interesting story.

If it has a purpose such as info-dump then you want to make it the best damn info-dump you've ever done because it's right there at the beginning.

Haha. Only the next part of the series will contain anything remotely info-dumpy. It'll be more on the lines David Eddings' Prologues in Belgariad.... Personally i don't like info-dumps (i find them incredibly boring and tend to skip them completely). So my prologue is more a scene that is relevant to the story, but is something of the "past", so to speak.

 

[Chel]

I'm not a huge fan of prologues, but I usually don't mind them if they're well written and actually add something important.

I'm actually planning on writing a prologue myself soon. The scene happens twenty years before the actual story begins, and is vital to the main plot. The pov character in the prologue is the antagonist, who will not be a pov character in the rest of the book.
The scene also shows a glimpse of the culture and both ancient and recent history in my world.

I could write this as an info-dumpy dialogue between a pov character and the antagonist, but that wouldn't have nearly the same impact and feeling to it. If I did that, it would have to come much later in the book. By then the reader would already know there's something fishy about the antagonist, which would put everything in a different light.

Now that I think about it, I'm likely to go back to that scene to achieve exactly that, a different spin to what happened. But that just makes the prologue all the more important!

 

[Tyburn]

I think I've made a bit of a breakthrough. If I shift my prologue-esque Chapter 1 to Chapter 2 and make Captain Flight getting the grand tour of the ship the first chapter, I can still keep Chapter 3, which was originally the second half of Chapter 2 after breaking it down due to size and it shouldn't mess with the pacing too much.

If that makes sense.

 

[BradSK]

I'm planning (writing it at the moment, in fact) to use a prologue in the novel I'm writing at the moment. I think it's just a more emotive way of explaining a bit of back story, instead of just doing an info-dump later. I'll definitely get advice about it later on though, because if other readers judge it to be unnecessary then I don't want to do anything to put people off reading!

 

[The Storyteller]

I have used prologues as a conversation between 'baddies' which sets up the plot, at least in cases where it is their actions which are setting the whole story in motion. This is done with as little description as possible, only enough to differentiate speakers and give the scene it's tone. This would be no longer than a page, more like half a page. I don't know if this is a good way of doing it, (maybe not?) but I've really liked the way it works.

I usually don't mind prologues in books, but they can sometimes be a little bit boring, especially when you know the story only actually 'starts' after it. But personally, I feel that done right they can be very effective.

As for epilogues, I think there is less need for them but there is a place and a time when they are good. I know a good fairy tale/adventure story which has an epilogue, but as fairy tales are all about the 'happily ever after' it makes sense that you would get a glimpse of how their ending pans out. Or sometimes the point in time that the story ends doesn't answer questions about the characters the reader might really want answered, so then an epilogue could be fitting.

 

[tinkerdan]

I have seen this done in a recent novel series I started reading. It posited several questions in my(the readers) mind that were not answered in that book.

I have used prologues as a conversation between 'baddies' which sets up the plot, at least in cases where it is their actions which are setting the whole story in motion. This is done with as little description as possible, only enough to differentiate speakers and give the scene it's tone. This would be no longer than a page, more like half a page. I don't know if this is a good way of doing it, (maybe not?) but I've really liked the way it works.

The rest of the book was done quite well and I enjoyed it and that's all I have to say about the practice.