Whose non-existence would have changed history the most?

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BAYLOR said:
Are you forgetting Spontaneous Generation? ;)
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No, but I think logic and the good in Aristotle and Plato, respectively, more than make up their faults.

Historical importance should be measured by impact and nobody else started more important discussions about the world we live in than those two. Justice, ethics, logic, the concept of 'philosophy' and by association the concept of 'political philosophy.' The importance of these topics for Western civilization cannot be overstated. Other areas of the world have their own early thinkers that are just as important, but not enough can be said about people in history that started the discussions that rightly never end. Despite their faults (which were minuscule when put into the context of their times), Plato and Aristotle were the gravity that our civilization used to slingshot itself into a world worth living in.

"All of Western philosophy is but a footnote to Plato." - Alfred North Whitehead
 
Ray McCarthy said:
Don't Atheists and "God as Watchmaker" ultimately believe in a limited form of 'Spontaneous Generation'? As an article of faith, as there is no evidence either way.
i.e.
Where did the first living thing(s) come from?
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If you talking amino acids yes.

But in the classical interpretation of Spontaneous Generation, fully formed organism like horses and sheep ect would spring into being from non living matter.
 
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BAYLOR said:
Aristotle may have invented Logic but he also came up with Spontaneous Generation? ;)
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I could go through every single scientist and philosopher and cherry pick out all the daft things they came up with or believed as well :D

Newton was a genius for his work in mathematics and physics in my mind, but he felt that his <cough> alchemy was just as important. And he pored over the bible to try and decode the messages that were there for the end times.

Einstein's relatively shook up the physics world - but he got QM totally wrong. QM has since been the most tested and still intact theory in the history of humanity and has far exceeded Albert's expectations of it.

Kepler did well with his three laws...but told us that the planets emitted musical notes.

Copernicus put the Earth in its place, and the sun in the centre of the solar system...yet the model he concocted to do this was in fact more complex and convoluted than the Ptolemaic model that wanted to replace it with - a proper scientist at the time, with the evidence of the time should have dismissed the Copernican model instantly using Occums razor.

And before you dismiss Ptolemy...yes, I'll give you that he got it wrong with his insistence that circles are perfect and that you can only use circles in his workings but the general jist of the model, given the evidence that he had was actually quite sound. They didn't have telescopes to make the real breakthrough that disposed of the geocentric model (that Venus had phases) nor could they measure parallax of even the closest star accurately - i.e. parallax looked like it was zero. And if parallax was zero then the heliocentric model was telling them that the stars had to be an infinite distance away. Which didn't make a lot of sense. (an argument apparently actually used by Tycho Brahe against Copernican Heliocentrism I see!)

With the evidence they had at in the 2nd Century AD, a geocentric model made a better fit. I'd give Ptolemy a pat on the back for his effort.
 
Michael Colton said:
No, but I think logic and the good in Aristotle and Plato, respectively, more than make up their faults.

Historical importance should be measured by impact and nobody else started more important discussions about the world we live in than those two. Justice, ethics, logic, the concept of 'philosophy' and by association the concept of 'political philosophy.' The importance of these topics for Western civilization cannot be overstated. Other areas of the world have their own early thinkers that are just as important, but not enough can be said about people in history that started the discussions that rightly never end. Despite their faults (which were minuscule when put into the context of their times), Plato and Aristotle were the gravity that our civilization used to slingshot itself into a world worth living in.

"All of Western philosophy is but a footnote to Plato." - Alfred North Whitehead
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All excellent points .
 
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Sir Isaac Newton's experiments in Alchemy lead to the creation of Chemistry. I tend to forget that all these men of their times who didn't have a 21st century tech tools or prospective.
 
BAYLOR said:
Sir Isaac Newton's experiments in Alchemy lead to the creation of Chemistry. I tend to forget that all these men of their times who didn't have a 21st century tech tools or prospective.
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Robert Boyle - his arch-enemy (or is one of his arch-enemies is probably a better description) seemed to have a better mind for sound 'good alchemy'. He seemed to focus on questions and experiments which we would recognise as chemistry today.

Newton seemed more focused on trying to produce the philosopher's stone and the Elixir of life*. I'm not sure Newton's work produced much that had any impact on the nascent field of chemistry.

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* I have to admit that Boyle did as well believed in the transmution of base metals to gold and therefore attempted to discover the philosopher's stone. But then most of European intelligensia probably dabbled in an attempt to get rich quick or gain immortality at the time when they could...
 
Wait, you folks are saying I can't turn the graphite from my pencil into gold? So much time wasted.
 
Jk Rowling's pen.

Einstein didn't suggest an alternative to Quantum Mechanics, or deny it. He just didn't like it! :)

BAYLOR said:
Spontaneous Generation, fully formed organism like horses and sheep ect would spring into being from non living matter
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I thought it was more Tapeworm, maggots and fleas ... I was sure they thought sheep came from Ewes, though they did think that the Ram was mainly responsible, with the Ewe being hardly more than the flower pot. The ancients had some interesting contraceptives too, some of which do work, other such as worn charm obviously were not rigorously tested. In the end the Catholic Church decided any woman providing working contraceptive remedies was "obviously" a witch and this resulted in one of the first edicts about witches.
 
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Ray McCarthy said:
Jk Rowling's pen.

Einstein didn't suggest an alternative to Quantum Mechanics, or deny it. He just didn't like it! :)



I thought it was more Tapeworm, maggots and fleas ... I was sure they thought sheep came from Ewes, though they did think that the Ram was mainly responsible, with the Ewe being hardly more than the flower pot. The ancients had some interesting contraceptives too, some of which do work, other such as worn charm obviously were not rigorously tested. In the end the Catholic Church decided any woman providing working contraceptive remedies was "obviously" a witch and this resulted in one of the first edicts about witches.
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The Basilisk a mythical monster was widely feared in Ancient europe , To look upon it meant death . It was believed that a Basilisk was created as a result of Toad incubating a chicken's egg. There was case where a farmer found a toad in his barn lying next to a chicken's egg. They put the toad on trial and burnt it at the stake.
 
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My first thought was Stalin as a complete no brainer (just because of the amount of his victims). Then again, he could have easily been someone else, considering the fact that it all started before him, with an ideology. Plus, we see examples of the same kind of dictatorship with fewer deaths around the world. So, no Stalin.

I'd probably say someone like Tesla. Basically, someone who affected our way of life, not just through wars. Without pennicilin, soap, electricity and smiliar things, our lives would look a lot different.
 
AscribedPurpose said:
My first thought was Stalin as a complete no brainer (just because of the amount of his victims). Then again, he could have easily been someone else, considering the fact that it all started before him, with an ideology. Plus, we see examples of the same kind of dictatorship with fewer deaths around the world. So, no Stalin.

I'd probably say someone like Tesla. Basically, someone who affected our way of life, not just through wars. Without pennicilin, soap, electricity and smiliar things, our lives would look a lot different.
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Inventions seem to be 'discovered' by several people at the same time though, don't they? Or if you are Thomas Edison (particularly), Alexander Graham Bell etc... you just steal the inventions that you find. :)

I agree that Tesla was smart and wildly innovative, (although poor in his business ventures, and he had to compete with the Edison who was a class A *******), but surely a lot of the concepts/inventions that he tried to push were eventually replicated or reproduced by others?
 
Absolutely, that's why I said "someone like Tesla", and not Tesla in particular. I just wanted to point out that it's not ALL about the warlords.
 
Inventions seem to have their time due to where science, technology, maths, engineering etc has got to. So mostly several people "discover" in a similar time period often unknown to each other initially.
Cinema, Light bulbs, telegraph, Radio, FM Radio, Superhet Radio, Tungsten in light bulbs, electronic and mechanical TV, Electronic valves/tubes, transistors, digital computers etc.
 
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