I, Sansa?

JoanDrake said:
Real simple question but it's a good defense to her being seen as a "potted plant". The Westerosi court certainly has many points of similarity to the Julio-Claudians,

Does anyone think that she might end up being the actual writer of all this once we get to the end? Assuming a place like Irulan in Dune or the real Princess Irene in Crusader Byzantium? Seemingly peripheral women characters who morphed into the most insightful historians of a very significant era?
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I loathed Sansa's chapters early on, but
once she hooked up with Littlefinger (figuratively) she became much more intriguing. She was basically barbie in book 1, then suffering from PTSD for most of book 2-3 and it was a drudge to read, but there were glimmers of steel by the end of ASoS and beyond.

There was a reference to Sansan - potential romance between Sandor Clegane and Sansa Stark elsewhere, and her odd chemistry with the Hound was also intriguing. I have a new pet theory that when all is said and done, the Hound and Sansa could wind up king and queen. She is learning the game from the best (Littlefinger) and I think will surpass the master and have vengeance. That gives Sansa the Eyrie (which would likely welcome a new, strong leader after Arryn left for KL, followed by Robert/Lysa and then Baelish). She could easily win the support of Riverrun (through blood and hatred of the Freys) to topple Late Walder and could help restore the Starks (Rickon?) to Winterfell by disputing the Boltons' claim. Add to that the chaos in the west... the Lannisters are in shambles with only disinterested Jaime powerful enough to rule Casterly Rock. Sounds ripe for the Hound, still technically a knight and heir to his family's estate there, to take control with Sansa's support. They could even ally with Dorne, who would be happy to see the Lannisters swept away.
 
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I skimmed this thread to be honest, but i did see some1 posting that Eddard and Catelyn failed in their parenting duties.
Sure they weren't perfect, no parent is, but i really don't see how they failed heir duties. Robb was clearly taught battle tactics, and he was being groomed to take up the lordship after his father. Sansa was getting lessons in how to be a courtlady. Indeed it is often remarked how good she is at it. Arya was quietly getting her dance lessons. It was made clear to Bran even ayounger brother had duties. Rickon, well he's little more than babe at the start of the books. So really they where doing well. Was their education unfinished? Definitely. But we need only look at their age to see why this is so. Indeed Sansa at the start of the books is the grand old age of 11! Yet Eddard and Catelyn should have told her by then to be more cynical, more distrustful, more ... . I think not. Now if she was age 15-16 at the start of the books and her midn process was still like that, then i might agree on your point. Not completely but to a certain extent. But again, Sansa was 11! Now the great, wise Doran Martell on the other hand seems to be but a mediocre father. Quenten looks daft, i seriously suspect him off having hit his head as a child. And Arianne is throwing child-like tantrums.
 
I read a theory somewhere else that Sansa, through the legitimisation of Alayne Stone and subsequent death of Littlefinger, would become Lady of Harrenhal. And she would hang onto this after being unmasked through her maternal grandmother...
 
The day Littlefinger became lord of that place, was the day i knew him to be ultimately doomed. Sansa better avoid that place if she knew what's good for her. After all, in westeros magic is real and curses do exist.
 
Yeah there was something else there about how she might break the curse. I can't remember it now. But there is in it something prophetic. Someone mentioned a wolf sprouting leathery wings like a bat and flying away from Joffrey' s wedding. Google 'Stark cadet branch harrenhal', it's an interesting theory.
 
I'm not sure I buy the comparison between Sansa and Claudius as a literary device. I don't have any sense that ASOIAF will be something told as a tale by aging survivor Sansa. She would have little first-hand, or even second-hand access to most of the story. But I suppose I can see a parallel between the characters. When the knives come out, the less of a threat you're perceived to be, the better odds you have of surviving.

As for the Starks' parenting, if we're looking at the story through the lens of the middle ages (as Martin seems to want us to do), the Starks are uncommonly affectionate and attentive parents. Noble children were usually sent off to trusted relatives to be raised with the proper martial or domestic virtues. It was thought better that children be raised away from parents, so they wouldn't be coddled and could learn their mettle among their peers overseen by adults who are responsible and trustworthy, but who wouldn't show them favoritism. Tywin Lannister is far more typical of a middle ages father than Eddard Stark.

I was on a real historical kick when I first read A Game of Thrones and I scoffed at the Starks' relationship with their children, which struck me as far too modern. When I came back to the book years later I had gotten over that. Historical attitudes are often alienating to modern audiences, and there are limits to how historically accurate you can have characters behave and still make them sympathetic to most readers.
 
MWagner said:
As for the Starks' parenting, if we're looking at the story through the lens of the middle ages (as Martin seems to want us to do), the Starks are uncommonly affectionate and attentive parents. Noble children were usually sent off to trusted relatives to be raised with the proper martial or domestic virtues. It was thought better that children be raised away from parents, so they wouldn't be coddled and could learn their mettle among their peers overseen by adults who are responsible and trustworthy, but who wouldn't show them favoritism. Tywin Lannister is far more typical of a middle ages father than Eddard Stark.

I was on a real historical kick when I first read A Game of Thrones and I scoffed at the Starks' relationship with their children, which struck me as far too modern. When I came back to the book years later I had gotten over that. Historical attitudes are often alienating to modern audiences, and there are limits to how historically accurate you can have characters behave and still make them sympathetic to most readers.
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I totally grant you this. I've learned a lot more about medieval history (being a cast member at a Renaissance Faire), and you're absolutely correct. I still take issue with Ned not giving his girls at least a modicum of "coaching" once he realized things were not exactly copacetic in KL, but as a whole, the Starks were very attentive and supportive parents.

Koopa said:
The day Littlefinger became lord of that place, was the day i knew him to be ultimately doomed. Sansa better avoid that place if she knew what's good for her. After all, in westeros magic is real and curses do exist.
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Keep in mind that Littlefinger has yet to even step foot in the place as lord of the castle and its holdings. Also, seeing at is does have such a nasty reputation, never mind the fact that it's falling apart, I don't see why he'd let Sansa anywhere near the place.
 
Alayne Baelish as Lady of Harrenhal is no longer something I agree with.

I do think however she will remain as Alayne and never again be referred to as Sansa. Sansa Stark is dead.

Here's my thoughts on what could happen: 1st she marries Harry Harding. Then young Robert Arryn will die. I think this will happen by Littlefinger spiking the maester's milk of the poppy with Tears of Lys. Some kind of symmetry there with the manner in which Lysa poisoned Jon Arryn.

Once Harry and Alayne are Lord and Lady of the Vale they will find themselves in opposition to Littlefinger, possibly due to his carnal interest in Sansa. This will be her first obstacle, the first test of her ability to play The Game. And I think she'll win, just before sending an army to the North to help defeat the Hilton's, just like on TV.
 
I disagree, so much is made of Robin dying, i have a feeling he'll live. Robin will be the tool Sansa fights littlefinger with imo.
 
Narkalui said:
Once Harry and Alayne are Lord and Lady of the Vale they will find themselves in opposition to Littlefinger, possibly due to his carnal interest in Sansa. This will be her first obstacle, the first test of her ability to play The Game. And I think she'll win, just before sending an army to the North to help defeat the Hilton's, just like on TV.
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I hope your right about this Nark. Because in order for Sansa to actually BEAT littlefinger at "the game" she will have to be a more adept player, have farther reaching influence, and outmaneuver him. Stabbing him in the stomach in some dark corner of the moon gate would just be cheating. She has to ruin him before she kills him.
 
ArstenWhitebeard said:
I hope your right about this Nark. Because in order for Sansa to actually BEAT littlefinger at "the game" she will have to be a more adept player, have farther reaching influence, and outmaneuver him. Stabbing him in the stomach in some dark corner of the moon gate would just be cheating. She has to ruin him before she kills him.
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I think she's going to stitch him up for murder/attempted murder of Robert Arryn. Littlefinger will confide in her his plans, she will play along as though she is 'onside' then she'll betray him, have him caught red handed without Littlefinger even knowing he was betrayed. Something like that.

Perhaps Littlefinger will put Corbray up to doing the deed, it'll be Corbray who gets caught then testifies that it was Littlefinger's idea in exchange for going to the Wall rather than through the Moondoor.
 
Narkalui said:
I think she's going to stitch him up for murder/attempted murder of Robert Arryn. Littlefinger will confide in her his plans, she will play along as though she is 'onside' then she'll betray him, have him caught red handed without Littlefinger even knowing he was betrayed. Something like that.

Perhaps Littlefinger will put Corbray up to doing the deed, it'll be Corbray who gets caught then testifies that it was Littlefinger's idea in exchange for going to the Wall rather than through the Moondoor.
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Interesting. It's clear Sansa is going to be a major player in the near(ish) future, and I totally agree that Littlefinger is an obstacle she'll have to overcome. Framing him for murder though seems kind of pedestrian. She's learning from the absolute best (Littlefinger), and as such, I'd see her orchestrating something grander, or biding her time and then outing him for one of his own machinations at a time most convenient to her.

Also, on the Robin Arryn thing... is it just me, or snooze? Robin is sad and sickly and pathetic and while it seems like it's a given he'll die (be it at someone's hand or from his own poor constitution), it feels [to me] like he's just getting dragged out as a pawn for Sansa-excuseme-Alayne to practice on and at this point, she's ready for a meatier pawn.
 
LilyDraken said:
Also, on the Robin Arryn thing... is it just me, or snooze? Robin is sad and sickly and pathetic and while it seems like it's a given he'll die (be it at someone's hand or from his own poor constitution), it feels [to me] like he's just getting dragged out as a pawn for Sansa-excuseme-Alayne to practice on and at this point, she's ready for a meatier pawn.
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Judging from the Sansa sample chapter,
she's already moving on to manipulating Harry the Heir.
 
I was just checking out the Ghost of High Heart and her prophecies and she said this to Beric Dondarrion:

"I dreamt of a maid at a feast with purple serpents in her hair, venom dripping from their fangs. And later I dreamt that maid again, slaying a savage giant in a castle built of snow."

This is clearly Sansa. I think that Robin destroying her snow model of Winterfell with his 'giant' doll and her subsequent response is not the prophecy. I think this event is just a reminder or a red herring. I think Littlefinger is the real Savage Giant.
 
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