True coincidences you might not believe in a novel

Hi,

Agreed Brian, but you have to consider one thing there. The movie was aimed at kids. Kids are far more likely to accept happenstance. Therefore Mr. Lucas was able to get away with it.

Cheers, Greg.
 
Seems too easy for my liking.

I'm not trying to stand up for the Victorian writers but, well, times were different then. Dickens used coincidence in practically everything (the neat resolution to Oliver Twist stands out for me.) He used it in two main ways: for comic effect or to demonstrate providence. And the Victorian themselves were very big on providence. It may not have really happened in reality (although sometimes of course it did) but the readers lapped it up in their fiction/drama.

Everyone writing for the market then would probably fall into putting a few far-fetched coincidences in as 'basic' I guess. I'm sure there are whole swathes of famous books of that era that rely on it.

Personally, as I'm not a Victorian writer, I agree that as a writing tool it's off-putting and a bit like giving a lecture.
 
I mean when you think about Conan, the entire saga is begun on a coincidence where the bad guys kill his tribe / family. They could have hit any other village, or they could have killed him, or he might have been away at the time and not known who did what or been captured. But a string of unlikely events propel him to become Conan.

I completely agree. And I think that this is something that people either miss or overlook quite often without even realising it. Almost all of the greatest stories, films, etc, have spurring moments that kickstart a plot that are, basically, coincidence and chance. Sometimes the events are near unbelievable when you think it through. Often they might seem to be something you just accept, as otherwise there isn't a story, but the simple fact is, these things DO happen.
In fact, they happen absolutely all the time, we just rationalise them, or don't even notice them, as we go about our daily lives, blissfully unaware.

As such, I actually try and make a point of including coincidence and luck quite regularly in my writing, it helps make it seem more natural that sometimes the best plans go wrong, and sometimes the desperate ones go right, because of things that protagonists couldn't possibly predict. Sometimes a last ditch effort works against the odds, other times it's a total failure. Occasionally that one-in-a-million shot DOES work.
I usually make sure the characters themselves are well aware that it's coincidence and/or muse on the fact, and, as others have mentioned, be very careful about using such luck as the sole reason the hero wins or survives, if for no other reason than it greatly reduces the importance of the character themselves.
 
VB, I think you may well be right about Victorian literature and the use of Providence, aka coincidence, but I wonder whether everyone agreed that this was to be lauded even at the time. I've just read Dan Simmons's Drood, which is basically about Wilkie Collins and his love of, and (here at least) envy for, Dickens, and he includes this comment about Bleak House "how ridiculous the totally unbelievable coincidences are in that book" and contrasts it with his own writing which is properly structured**. Now, granted Simmons has written a novel and not a straight biography of either man, but his research is very evident, and I'm willing to bet he has chapter and verse for every comment he makes of this kind, so I suspect Collins at least, and whoever was the recipient of that comment, wasn't enamoured.


** though having said that, I'm sure there are any number of coincidences in his novels, and The Haunted House is one long coincidence from beginning to end, the evil murderess putting this down to fate coming for her!
 
Good points TJ, I was of course generalising a bit. :)

Partly it also comes from the other mainstream entertainment industry of the day - theatre - was awash with melodramas that I believe the masses loved. (They liked to have a good shout at the baddie twiddling his moustache on stage.) Again I generalise but many relied on coincidence to get the hero with his heroine at the end. So my guess is that this bled through into the populist literature of the day.
 
Perhaps it is less grating when used in theatre because even the largest play tends to have much less story in it. I'm not trying to infer anything about quality of course, but simply the word count. The complexity (or at least length) of plot in most novels is far beyond that of most plays. Reliance upon coincidence isn't too bad, but over the course of a novel the usage can build up until it reaches the point of being unbelievable. In contrast, a play will rarely reach that critical mass.

Of course, that's all just off the top of my head. It doesn't seem as convincing a theory now I've finished as when I started typing, I admit.
 
** my own minor -- but I find it amusing -- coincidence is that my best friend at junior school was named Christine, my best friend from my first year at grammar school (ie immediately after leaving junior school) was Krystyna, the Polish variant, and the Judicial Helpmeet, whom I met the summer I left school, is Christopher. So I've had successive Chrises in my life from the age of 8!

Maybe that's why you're my go-to moderator when I have a query? :) After all, I'm a Christopher and we worked in the same place at times!

pH
 
Life is a string of coincidences one after the other. If person A hadn't met person B then C wouldn't have happened. If person D hadn't gone to E then he would never have met F,

The thing is that if certain things hadn't happened in a certain order in a certain time or place, then there would be no story to write about.
 
I don't think that's coincidence, though. It's chance, happenstance, and that's certainly allowable in fiction. Coincidence comes with something more, something odd and remarkable. Person A getting into a train carriage and meeting a stranger is chance, and it remains a chance meeting even if the two of them fall in love and marry and live happily ever after. Person A getting into a train carriage in the back of beyond and seeing the man who was his best friend at school, whom he last saw 30 years ago and who now lives in Australia but who is visiting his wife's recently remarried sister who has just come to live in the back of beyond -- that is coincidence (aka "small world, innit").
 
Yes, I see what you mean, but there's a fine line between coincidence and happenstance; I guess a better word for it is 'fate'. But again , I think fate, coincidence, luck - call it what you will - is the difference between an interesting tale and boring,hum-drum life.
 
Stranger Than Fiction-Film said:
Running into your insurance agent the day your policy expires is coincidence. Getting a letter from the Emperor saying he's visiting is plot. Having your house eaten by a wrecking ball ... is something else entirely

There have been many times in my life where something coincidental has caught my attention and whispered "dont you think there is something bigger going on here?" Equally there have been (I am sure) coincidences that pass right over my head, or under my feet, or brush past me in the middle of the night and I never notice.
What makes the Something coincidences Something and the Nothing coincidences Nothing (in MY life anyway, I wont presume to speak for all [or any] of humanity here) is my reaction / acknowledgment of them.

Was it coincidence that the man sitting next to me on the buss home from my son's birthday party was an x-boy-friend I hadnt seen or spoken to (or honestly thought about) in nearly 15 years? That this same friend was just coming back from china where he was working with the top names in the field I had just recently got into (namely cryptocurrencies) and we were able to pass the hours quickly by discussing the things that interested us, but bored to tears those in our day to day lives because it was "all beyond them?"
Or was it an overarching plot point assuring one (or both) of us that the world is not as large and empty as it seems? That what we do matters out there in the grand scheme of things?

Ever After-Film said:
Henry: Then let's say God puts two people on Earth and they are lucky enough to find one another. But one of them gets hit by lightning. Well then what? Is that it? Or, perchance, you meet someone new and marry all over again. Is that the lady you're supposed to be with or was it the first? And if so, when the two of them were walking side by side were they both the one for you and you just happened to meet the first one first or, was the second one supposed to be first? And is everything just chance or are some things meant to be?
Leonardo da Vinci: You can't leave everything to fate boy. She's a busy women, sometimes you've got to... help her along.
 
Was it coincidence that the man sitting next to me on the buss home from my son's birthday party was an x-boy-friend I hadnt seen or spoken to (or honestly thought about) in nearly 15 years? That this same friend was just coming back from china where he was working with the top names in the field I had just recently got into (namely cryptocurrencies) and we were able to pass the hours quickly by discussing the things that interested us, but bored to tears those in our day to day lives because it was "all beyond them?"
That is exactly the kind of coincidence that actually happens in real life, but if read in a book would seem impossibly contrived. Some people would call it Fate and believe that we cannot outrun our Fate or Destiny. I'd say that the statistical chances are very high that you would have run into him again at some point, somewhere that weekend even if you hadn't caught that bus or even if the party had been cancelled - and that is actually what we call Fate.
 
Well I did almost walk past him looking for a seat. But "something" drew me to choosing that seat. It was a while before we realized we knew each-other. (15yrs does that to people)
 
Even after all the discussion, I'm not sure if it's a good thing of a bad thing that I've already seeded 'coincidence' in book 1 that (assume it all comes to pass) will come to fruition in books 3/4...

Oh well, it's done :)

In a way, that's the big problem... writing a coincidence automatically makes it absolutely not a coincidence (it's like a writers Schrodingers cat ;P). It's only the reader that could ever tell us if what we've concocted comes across as coincidental or contrived, and that feedback isn't going to come until it's already finished.
(of course, things can still be revised if it's within the same book and it's not published yet, but in my case, that's not an option!)
 
I'm starting a play I'm working on with a coincidence. It is 25 years since a blissful night of passion that resulted in a pregnancy. The two individuals who haven't seen each other in 25 years have decided to mark the occasion by going back to the restaurant where they first met.
 
Yes they have had no contact. Gus takes his adopted son and Iris takes their grandson. I'm trying to make it believable now I've taken out the fantasy (it began with a spell before).

Gus goes every year on the anniversary. Iris goes because she is on holiday and wants to show her grandson the place she used to work - the anniversary of the night she got pregnant felt appropriate.
 
For what it's worth, I'd have absolutely no problem with that 'coincidence', particularly since one has made a habit out of it.
 
I don't know if anyone's made this point yet, but one major plot-driving coincidence is fine in fiction (for example, someone being in the right place at the right time to learn or do something). In a way, the story then becomes about that coincidence and the consequences thereof. But any more than that, and it loses credibility, in my experience.
 

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