GPS - Comms question

Venusian Broon said:
can't she just make up a satellite phone company
Click to expand...
Well... maybe.
But it's like making up an imaginary BBC that is BBC by a different name. Almost anyone that has bought a satellite phone* would be as taken aback as if you had UKNTV Corp instead of BBC.

Thuraya are well known and like a phone (but you can connect tablet/laptop). You have maybe weeks before anyone could get it cut off.
Inmarsat is horribly more expensive and a suitcase even though BBC etc refers to it as a satellite phone (It's worldwide and used by all the news people).
Iridium is for benefit of US Military and owned by them, though I think public subscriptions are available. I'm fairly sure it's in Handset and Briefcase versions.

Unlike regular phones, laptops, vacuum cleaners there isn't anything else here in Europe.

(*Satellite Internet is a completely different thing. I did have one I could fit in back of a 106 hatch back, but it's meant for a fixed install and would be awkward to carry about (70cm dish!) It was very slow in rain due to inadequate dish size. You could power it and Modem off a small cheap inverter and 12V 7AH gel alarm battery for about 2 hours. The modem bit no bulkier or heavier than an ADSL or Cable modem. The ODU on the dish arm is heavy, but lighter than the 12V 7AH gel battery.)
 
But I should explain. My writing is the opposite of Star Trek, inspired by William of Occam. I never 'invent' anything if there is real science or tech or a real place (or real company that won't sue). So I mention Guinness, Beamish and Murphys stout. Not Stout. No-one orders a pint of stout. I despise Star Trek's replicator, especially for Earl Grey Hot.
Even for Magic I have a system at the start and rather than J K Rowling's "invent an incantation" as I go, I pretend it's as real as anything in an ordinary drama (Of course ideally I shouldn't explain it to the reader any more than you'd explain a car engine). Maybe a different book will have a different Magic system. For SF also I decide what the Fantasy is and stick to it rather than pull a new imaginary tech out of a magician's hat because it would allow lazier writing. The trick also when that technology appears on Earth is weeks of argument with my friends that are experts on Politics, Finance and Energy etc as to what would be the effect. (Really disruptive, but in what way?).

There is of course room for J K Rowlings Magic or SF from Ian M Banks or McCloud where stuff seems to just get chucked in like some sort of Hollywood Version of 1001 Arabian Nights. But I can't imagine me writing it.

So if I answer a question, I tend to think of the most realistic answer. For SF rather than Fantasy it's harder as more people with Mathematics, Science or Engineering background may read it. What seems reasonable might not be to a programmer, Internet Company worker, TV engineer, Arianespace person etc :)
 
I agree with that, btw, that where possible it should be close to rl. But that needs to be metered by point of view and target audience. A hard sf audience would drink up all the detail but I'm writing a YA adventure with a 14 yo pov character who wouldn't know any satellite companies or anything beyond Kik is more fun than Facebook....

But the detail is fantastic for me to know and draw on - it just wouldn't have a place in the story and, if it did, it would make the story told for the purposes of sci fi, not a story dealing with a young pov caught up in events they don't understand....
 
Hi,

My knowledge of cell phones is limited but as I understand you can block them as they do in prisons with a jammer of some sort. However, the range of these blockers is limited. Move a few hundred yards away from the prison and hey presto you're back on line.

The other option they would have to block cellular coms would be to deactivate the towers. However, again all you have to do is travel far enough away for your phone to reach another tower and you're back on the air.

To add to your range, you can have a car kit - which is essentially an aerial on your car that might be eight feet tall. They look stupid but they do work in remote areas when you don't have a nearby tower. And if you were really feeling sneaky, you could use an older analog phone. These were used before the new regs came in to protect people's brains from frying, and they are three watts instead of half a watt or less. I.e. they have a longer range. They also have the advantage that they won't have GPS on them, so the only way to find one is by triangulation of signals. Plus they'd be a hell of a lot cheaper than a sat phone.

Cheers, Greg.
 
The Analogue cell phones haven't existed in Europe for a very long time. Also we don't use USA 700MHz in Europe. The very very best car kits only have about 50% more range.
The governments don't need to use Jammers. They can get a base or any number of bases disabled except for authorised users. They did it in the last London Bombings. That's done centrally in minutes.

Also in UK and Ireland they search prisoners for phones as no UK / Ireland prison is allowed to use a phone Jammer.
 
Hi,

Yes we're talking about phones that are likely ten years old or more, but they still exist and still work. I have one sitting in a box somewhere that could be reconnected to a network.

And the car kits were actually quite effective. In my work I used to cover a great many wild country locations at the time where cell phone coverage was only in the cities here in NZ. After we got rid of the RT's and fitted car kits, my go to method for communication when I was out in the middle of nowhere, was to drive up a hill and drop the phone in the holder. The effectiveness of the car kit depends on whether or not it amplifies the system - some do some don't, and line of sight. Many times my signal had to travel twenty or thirty klicks to reach a tower, but as long as there was a clear line of sight it did. The main problem with the system was having to tie the aerial down to the back bumper as ten feet of flexible steel swinging in the wind when you drive tends to scratch paint.

Cheers, Greg.
 
No Analogue Mobile phone works in Europe.
Any radio system has massive sometimes x10 or more increase in range on a hill top.
Nor could any European mobile phone system EVER use an aerial anything like that. I'm familiar the Barret Radio telephones used in Australia. They are not cell phones. They are the only kind of system that uses large aerials. They are analogue. There are "Patch systems" to connect them via an unattended base station into the phone system.
No cell phone system anywhere ever used 10ft aerial.
As a former RF & Communication engineer, I'm sure your conflating three kinds of system. The Rural systems with 5ft to 12ft aerials never existed in Europe except for military and NATO.
 
Hi,

Well since my work car had one I'll respectfully have to disagree. Bear in mind that I can only speak for New Zealand. But here's the modern equivalent to the system I had fifteen years ago - only a twelve inch aerial. (Must be very deflating for users!) http://www.ipmart.com/usa/product/W...na,,For,Multiple,Users,319815.php?prod=319815 (apparently they work just as well with digital cells.)

If I'm conflating things I don't know. All I know is that I stuck the cell in the cradle and its range / number of bars magically increased.

As for the radio telephones - never had one. They were marketed in NZ under the brand Team Talk. But I went straight from having a basic RT when I was in Gisborne to a cell with car kit when I moved in 1996.

Cheers, Greg.
 
Just my tiny input here: from me living in the arse end on nowhere and the OH's parents living in the even more arse end of nowhere. (also the OH is am elctronics engineer)
Sat phone stuff said before is fab. A little convoluted but would work.
Being in the arse end of nowhere a satelite internet connection is a definite possibility. OH had it at parents home for years and only recently moved over with all sorts of issues. He can jig it around pretty quickly (lots of building work at the time). Anyway my main thing was that sat phones have gps and can be located. If you route through Tor on a laptop via general internet your location essentially gets hidden. Ignore all tv crime shows saying they can track people back through Tor - complete lies. Oh and don't let Tor go through a US server, all servers in the US are tagged by the security services. You can alao get an anonymous Tor email. And if you add your encryption key to it then only the right people can work out what you are sending them.

Sorry, I am very computer paranoid lol, and deal with crappy internet a lot.
 
Tor isn't entirely secure or anonymous. Also if you use Tor via Sat phone (which isn't Satellite Internet) the location IS still known.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/11/07/euro_cyber_cops_darknet_arrests/
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/10/29/history_of_tor/
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/10/27/tor_exit_node_mashes_malware_into_downloads/
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/09/19/fbi_overseas_hacking_powers/

However for Spring's scenario, only getting a connection is needed, not anonymity and a 70cm dish, modem, ODU etc from home Satellite Internet OR a cheap Thuraya Satellite phone (unobtrusive and has data port) will do that. The extra cost of anything else makes it unlikely.

If your laptop etc already has a Trojan or Rootkit from GCHQ or NSA, then of course everything is pointless.
 
I never said to use Tor via sat phone lol. Tor isn't 100% secure that is true - you should never log into anything important and never ever download through it but is does anonymise your IP - the only way to track you is if Tor routes you through tagged servers - if you use it properly you route through server after server after server - each server can see where you came from - hence why you shouldn't route through any US servers, also Russian ones and those in the UK. The people who are sneaky tag the people who are new to Tor with malware, when they log in or download, to track them, but like most things, you need to know how it works to use it properly. The arrest made recently were via websites and the whole Silk Road network rather than actually tracking down people through Tor - domain names list people's details in order to register them, even using WHOIS privacy doesn't always work and I'm sure a gov order will cause them to release info. Also if you are really paranoid you can set the Tor browser up to switch server nodes every half hour.

Anyway I only mentioned Tor and encryption keys as something the UFO people might already have set up - worried about being snooped on by various Gov people. Also if they are remote, they very well may have a satellite dish for internet - current dishes can actually give you better internet access if you are out in the remote wilds. I was assuming that UFO people might be paranoid.

:)
 
I use Person to Person VPN on port 80 for anything needed to be secure. But Only ISP provided VPN works on a Sat link, the Sat ISP is using special software at modem and at the ISP Groundstation (Italy, Spain usually for UK users). The groundstation is the real end point for the VPN. For VPN over Satellite you have to trust two things, the ISP provided VPN software and the satellite links. The Sat links (up and down) are sadly easy to listen to (You listen to client uplink on the Groundstation downlink frequency and client downlink on the client downlink), the encryption has been compromised. So even VPN or Tor traffic on Satellite is easily accessible to a private person, never mind NSA, GCHQ, etc. You need to be in the foot prints, so for Ka-Sat in UK you need to be in the correct spot and also have a receiver and dish in mainland Europe to listen to groundstation downlink.
Four locations will capture ALL UK downlink data (only four dishes!)
http://www.techtir.ie/saortv/saorsat-coverage
You can easily find the locations needed to "hear" what the Groundstations receive from users uplinks.
US Military uses extra encryption on the Iridium terminals as Iridium, Thuraya and Inmarsat are even less secure than Ka-Sat.
Most earlier Satellite Internet than Ka-Sat isn't encrypted at all in any meaningful way!

Actually getting control of a satellite is harder as the control receivers are deliberately insensitive, you need probably about 4.8m dish as well as passwords etc. Though some older USA military satellites are used by "pirate" traffic in South America all the time as they have no link security.

Similarly, your ISP or Sat ISP always knows your IP and what you are connecting to, as they have to issue your IP and route it to their edge routers or Peering router. When I was working as head of R&D in a ISP, one night abroad, the CEO asked me how hard would it be to steal everyone's credit card and bank details (for the ISP), I explained that was the easy bit. The hard bit was spending the money and hiding afterwards. I'm not sure if he was serious or testing my moral fibre.
 
Confusion has arisen lol - I was mentioning two different points - one was that they might have a sat for internet being in the arse end of nowhere. The second unrelated one was that over general internet connections Tor might be a good bet for security. Rather than using Tor/encryption over a sat link of any type.

VPNs are good.

Sat links, as you said, are handy but not particularly secure.
 
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