How old is "Too Old" in a Young Adult Novel?

[Teresa Edgerton]

I think that there are a lot of things that will encourage a love of books and reading: reading to your children, giving them books, letting them choose their own books, having many books in the house, letting them see from your example what a joy reading can be. But, in the end, it comes down to the child. You can make it easier for them to read early, if they are so inclined, but a child who prefers other activities will only resist if you try too hard to get them to read, and a child who loves reading is (fortunately) very difficult to discourage.

So I am in favor of doing everything possible to foster a love of reading. More often than not, it will succeed. But a lot of it comes down to whether or not your children inherit your own inclination. If they don't, then you need to learn to appreciate their own gifts and interests that you may not share.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

Most people don't write as quickly as you do, springs. By the time they've finished the book, there is no telling what the market may be. Writing the best book we can in the way that best suits the story is the only thing we can control.

But that's all the more reason to stop and occasionally ask yourself where it's fitting in with. To spend years on a book only to find there is no easily discerned market would be even more galling. I'm not suggesting changing it massively or writing something you hate, I'm just putting out that it may be useful to at least consider it betweeen drafts: where am I going with this, who am I writing it for and will it appeal. Says me who is the devil's own for not asking such salient questions.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

To spend years on a book thinking it will fit the market, only to discover when it is done that the market has disappeared, would be plenty galling.

Besides, YA is not really a genre, and it is not going to entirely disappear. And of course neither will books for adult readers. Fantasy for either age group may crash for a while, but publishers will still be reading and still buying books for both those age groups if they find them extraordinary enough. There are fads in sub-genres, style, viewpoint, length, etc. But YA fiction has been around since I was a teenager. Since long before that; they just didn't call it that. It's not going anywhere. Of course agents have to think about what they can sell now. They have mortgage payments and rent and things that they can't put off. But if you aren't even planning to have a book ready to submit for years, why be influenced by temporary changes in the market?

 

[Ray McCarthy]

I have to disagree that where adults are avid readers the children will inevitably be reading before they start school.

I agree it's not universal. My brother has maybe read three books ever. But my sister and I both read lots. However research in UK suggests that for many schools the parent's "literacy" and reading habits have far more effect than the school. Thus without smaller class sizes, streaming and individual attention from good teachers, children of parents that don't read at all, are quite likely to leave even secondary school almost illiterate.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

To spend years on a book thinking it will fit the market, only to discover when it is done that the market has disappeared, would be plenty galling.

Besides, YA is not really a genre, and it is not going to entirely disappear. And of course neither will books for adult readers. Fantasy for either age group may crash for a while, but publishers will still be reading and still buying books for both those age groups if they find them extraordinary enough. There are fads in sub-genres, style, viewpoint, length, etc. But YA fiction has been around since I was a teenager. Since long before that; they just didn't call it that. It's not going anywhere. Of course agents have to think about what they can sell now. They have mortgage payments and rent and things that they can't put off. But if you aren't even planning to have a book ready to submit for years, why be influenced by temporary changes in the market?

But that's my point. We know there'll always be a YA and adult market. To not be thinking, somewhere in the back of your mind, that you might be subbing to one or another seems odd. That's different from deciding not to write dystopian or sf just now because the market doesn't want it - even at my speed the market might well have got over that by the time I finish.

All I know is once you set something in the hinterland of teen characters without teen preoccupations, or adult characters mixed with teens, doing things outside of expectations of a teen audience, selling it becomes much, much harder.

You can still write the story you want - it's just adding the discipline of stopping every so often and considering where you want to place it. But it depends what people want from their career.

On the other note, I'm from a family of four kids, all of whom grew up surrounded by books. Two of us are big readers, one not so much so, the other isn't a reader at all. I think we can encourage it, but if someone wants to read they'll get the bug and if someone isn't so keen, they'll never be changed into someone. and that's what makes the world so interesting.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

All I know is once you set something in the hinterland of teen characters without teen preoccupations, or adult characters mixed with teens, doing things outside of expectations of a teen audience, selling it becomes much, much harder.

But that's my point. If the story you want to write is about teen characters and the more the story develops the more you see that the characters are concerned with teen preoccupations -- if that is what that particular story requires, if that is the best way to write it -- then write it that way and don't worry about whether it is the kind of thing publishers will be eager for when it comes time to submit it at some nebulous future date. (For one thing, whether they are looking for YA or not when you start submitting, they may change their minds two months later.)

But if, from the very beginning you have an older protagonist and a long list of things that are not quite YA, or only rarely appear in YA books where everything else fits to perfection, then write it as adult, and unless it starts naturally skewing around as YA as you write, then don't try to squeeze it into a genre where it isn't comfortable. Basically, you don't mix and match just because you think it may make the story easier to sell at some nebulous future date. However, you may need to write a ways into your story to figure out who it is really about and what it is really about. You can't find that out if you are too rigid. That's why I say write it and see.

 

[HareBrain]

Teresa, doesn't your last post presuppose that the story will naturally turn out to be either YA or adult? What if it naturally does fall between the two? I think that's what springs was saying. And if it does, it might well be the case that "the story you want to write" will be a very hard sell.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

Teresa, doesn't your last post presuppose that the story will naturally turn out to be either YA or adult? What if it naturally does fall between the two? I think that's what springs was saying. And if it does, it might well be the case that "the story you want to write" will be a very hard sell.

Yes, that's what I'm trying to say. (Badly.) If you find yourself falling between both, then I think that's when you need to make a decision what it is or isn't. I'd love crossover to be more widely accepted, I love the conflict between teens and adults, but at some point one or other needs to lead the story. Which means, unless the writer wants hellish rewrites at the end, it's better at some point to stand back and ask yourself whose story you're telling, and to what audience. Once you know that, then write the story you want.

I got so badly burned with this with Inish - I wish I'd stopped, much, much earlier and really thought about the market I was aiming for. I'd have Belfast-noired it (black, gritty adult stories set in Belfast, currently in vogue), and made it adult. Instead, I ended up with a mish-mash.

 

[AnyaKimlin]

And like Springs I've had the issue of an unsaleable book but not because agents were having issues with the story, writing or characters (quite the reverse). Mine was for different reasons, because basically there isn't a sub genre available for it. One agent did suggest Brandon Sanderson had mentioned doing something similar so it maybe saleable in the next few years but that's after I've subbed it to most of the agents who would consider it.

I'm going to give mine one last try with the new rewrite or publish it myself.

 

[Drift Dean]

I read a statistic that was in the NY Daily Times some time back. 55% of YA readers who purchase and read YA books are between the ages of 30-44. Nearly 80% are between the ages of 18-44. Leaving a small percentage of readers of YA between 12-17.

In my opinion, given that science, a YA should start out with young protagonists but must have some adult crossover appeal. It must be there if you want to sell your book to the majority demographic that buys it. The essence of YA appeal to young adults and adults, is that it takes us back to the "feel good" times of our lives while also relating to the kids who are currently in that age range. It's a delicate balance. At some point, a YA genre read must adopt an adult storyline of some sort while still keeping the protagonists in the writing young/old enough to appeal to both tween and adult. Again, if you want to market to the above statistics.

Hate to beat a dead horse with a Twilight reference, but that is exactly what Stephanie Meyer did with that story and that is why is was so appealing to a broad base, which made it successful.

Just my thoughts.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

If you find yourself falling between both, then I think that's when you need to make a decision what it is or isn't.

Sure, but you won't know that until you've written some of it, maybe the whole first draft. I have nothing against hellish rewrites, you see.

The upside of being able to write as fast (and as well) as you do is that you produce polished work in a very short time. Someday that is going to serve you very well, because that is how you keep a career going. But the downside is that your ideas may not always have sufficient time to germinate. Perhaps if you had done more rewrites (without an agent pushing you in a certain direction) you would have figured out for yourself that the book ought to be "Belfast-noired." Then the book you eventually sent out would have been what it ought to be, and perhaps stood a better chance of finding a publisher. Of course we will never know.

 

[HareBrain]

This is coming at it from the other direction, but it relates to what makes a novel YA or not.

I've just started reading Black Swann Green by David Mitchell, which is a first-person story about an intelligent thirteen-year-old, dealing with the kind of subjects you would expect to be of interest to young people, such as fitting in, peer groups, gaining independence, learning about sex, etc. So far, nothing has happened that would be out of place in a YA novel, but I would never class it as YA -- it's definitely adult.

One reason, I think, is that it's set in 1982, and so might be assumed to only really appeal to those who were around then, especially those who were kids at the time. Another reason might be simply that I've always perceived Mitchell to be an adult writer. But I think there must be more to it than that. Just out of curiosity, I'd be interested if anyone else who's read it could help me pin it down.

 

[tinkerdan]

Back Swann Green bears a lot of similarity to To Kill a Mockingbird. In that they both seem to be autobiographical in nature. The largest difference is that Harper Lee tells the story almost like a long hard series of flashbacks that an adult character has and almost makes the mature sounding six year old seem a surreal mature, but is forgivable in respect to how the story is framed. David Mitchell tells his story from a more direct perspective of the 12 to 13 year old as the events occur.

It might be the subject itself that makes this seem more mature than just YA and draws it from the age range of the main character. It might also be the way the plot is presented and the way the story builds.

One problem I found very annoying with the writing was that the narrator speaks with multiple contractions (that alone would just make it quirky and add to the character building). Unfortunately the rest of the character's dialogue mirrors his narrative with just as many contractions and more often than not his favorite is the 'd've double contraction. This shows up an annoying amount of times in the narration and then starts sporadically showing up in the dialogue of other characters. For me that created a sort of universal character trait causing them all to sound like the same character with variations on a theme (being demonstrated by their actions); otherwise they all sound like the same person in dialogue. But that's just me and how I perceive patterns in fiction.

 

[HareBrain]

It might be the subject itself that makes this seem more mature than just YA and draws it from the age range of the main character.

I'm not seeing that at the moment, but I'm not far into it. Maybe I should have saved this for when I finished.

One problem I found very annoying with the writing was that the narrator speaks with multiple contractions

Yes. I count myself a fan of David Mitchell, but to my shame, this book has sat unread on my shelf for eight years, because when I first started it, I got annoyed by shouldn't've. I still think it's clumsy, but I can get over it. I was also put off somewhat by what I perceived to be him trying too hard to set the 1982 setting, making it feel at times like a TV retrospective. Which is a pity, because I now think they detract only a little from the overall thing. It's (so far) a brilliant book.

 

[VKALFIERI]

In my writing course we defined YA fiction as lying somewhere between 12 to 18 year old and 21 at most. So, given that I'd say YA could be any story aimed at those age groups.

It's hard to define, though, and as others have said; it depends on what the publisher defines as YA. And you'd be better served reading the individual guidelines for publishers to whom you wish to submit your MS.

 

[russ2]

I think the reader needs to relate to the main character so the hero should be YA age for a YA book. I know my nephew, Brandon who's 12, would think 18 is ancient and switch off. But then he's not YA age yet. I think YA is for teenagers. I saw a writer speak once and he said YA finished at 16 as after that everyone was on the same reading age level. So YA must be 13 to 16. (teens). So maybe 18 is pushing it a bit. No more than 18 anyway.

 

[Stephen Palmer]

YA is typically 12-16. Most readers of that age want to read about characters who are the same age or slightly older than themselves.