Please help me with this line before I go mad

[HareBrain]

There's one line I can't get right at the start of my WIP. Here's a short extract:

***

‘Yes, the water is clear,’ said Ibben, ‘the sea is light. We’ll sail around it. You can see enough from the boat.’

‘No, we need to get in.’

Ibben’s eyes narrowed harder. ‘In the Dwelling?’

‘The water.’

‘No need. You can see from the boat.’

***

The line in question is "The water". I want some indication of Orc's (the speaker's) thought processes on the same line, but I want it succinct.

The truthful answer to Ibben's question "In the Dwelling?" is "Yes." But at that moment, Orc instinctively recognises that he should not say this. But he doesn't have time to articulate to himself why, it's just a reaction to Ibben's hard look and perhaps a tone of suspicion in his voice.

If I have nothing except Orc's dialogue, then I'm worried either that Ibben's question seems insignificant, or that Orc's answer is the truth. I've tried various things, such as Orc looking Ibben straight in the eye to make himself seem honest, but this always comes out too long. I've tried simply ["Just the water," Orc lied.] but that doesn't get across his sudden realisation that he has to lie, and might even suggest he is a habitual liar.

Help meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee ...

 

[Hex]

er... something like: Orc caught Ibben's look and swallowed what he'd been going to say. "No," he improvised. "The water. Of course."??? Only, you know, written by you and therefore lovely.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

I'd change the Ibben's eyes change to the end of that line, and link Orc's reaction more closely to that.

'In the water?' Ibben's eyes hardened, suspicious.

'No.' He paused, careful (but you might want to play with either line - the two commas are a bit samey). 'In the dwelling.'

PS i think you're overthinking it, btw. Cake?

 

[Abernovo]

Could you swap a single word around?

Ibben’s eyes narrowed harder. ‘The Dwelling?’

‘In the water.’

I've italicised a bit, for emphasis, but do whatever is your style.
Hex's suggestion is good too.


EDIT: springs got there before me. I am redundant!

 

[thaddeus6th]

Could you have him hesitate, and then answer?

 

[HareBrain]

Thanks for the suggestions. I think springs might be closest.

'In the water?' Ibben's eyes hardened, suspicious.

'No.' He paused, careful (but you might want to play with either line - the two commas are a bit samey). 'In the dwelling.'

(Except that dwelling and water have changed places! "Oops!" thought Orc. "Tricked!")

But I don't want Ibben's eyes to only harden after he speaks, and I don't want to (for some reason) actually say he's suspicious. Maybe:

'In the Dwelling?' Ibben's eyes were narrowed, hard.

'No. In the water.'

Maybe the fact that Orc is more clearly shown to be reacting to Ibben's suggested suspicion here, and his emphatic "No", makes the stated pause and care unnecessary? Not sure -- it feels like something I'll keep changing my mind about.

PS i think you're overthinking it, btw.

But it's what I dooooo ...

Cake?

Had cake. Useless for this purpose.

 

[Ursa major]

The line in question is "The water". I want some indication of Orc's (the speaker's) thought processes on the same line, but I want it succinct.

The truthful answer to Ibben's question "In the Dwelling?" is "Yes." But at that moment, Orc instinctively recognises that he should not say this. But he doesn't have time to articulate to himself why, it's just a reaction to Ibben's hard look and perhaps a tone of suspicion in his voice.

Is there some reason you want it to be succinct, other than you think it'll represent the speed of the scene outside Orc's head? This isn't necessary: narrative time and the time perceived by the characters are not the same. And if you want the reader to realise Orc's response is instinctive, say something like:

‘The water.’ He'd lied instinctively, prompted by Ibben's hard look and the hint of suspicion in his voice. But his instincts were right: <give reason>.​

 

[Cat's Cradle]

HB, when I read this originally I actually loved how succinct those two words were..I knew there was deception behind Orc's response to Ibben, but I knew there must be a legitimate reason for his subterfuge-of-the-moment; there was weight behind the paucity of words he responded with.

But here are two ideas for consideration. First, Orc hesitates just a moment before responding (if he is thrown off by the intensity of Ibben's gaze, then perhaps he wouldn't be able to instantaneously come up with a deceptive response)..so perhaps hesitation:

"..The water."

Next, holding a person's gaze when you are lying can be difficult. Perhaps a line similar to one these two could be considered:

Orc struggled to hold Ibben's gaze. "The water."

or

Orc purposely held Ibben's gaze as he responded, "The water."

But honestly, I'm with springs here. I like it as is! There, my vote's in. CC

 

[The Judge]

Um... eyes narrowed harder?? Surely not! Narrowed further, or narrowed into slits, or became harder or hardened further.

Anyhow, back to the question, personally I think you're making mountains out of molehills (ziggurats out of ziilches). The other problem is that no matter what we suggest it's going to be in our voice, not yours.

For what it's wrth, I'd probably have something like " 'No.' The lie came easily; he'd been working too long with Ranga. 'The water.' "

Or for a change of emphasis: " 'No.' For a moment he wasn't sure why he'd lied. 'In the water.' "

Or "Sudden/unexpected panic/worry/concern. 'No," he lied. 'In the water.' "

Stop eating cake. Go for a walk.

 

[HareBrain]

Just had an idea, which came from the realisation that I really wanted a physical action rather than a thought process, because (and I think this answers Ursa's question about why I wanted it succinct) there are already several thoughts described in the page or so beforehand. Does this work? (I've had to go back a bit farther for context.)

***

‘Not yet.’ Cass put her hand on his knee, but kept staring intently forwards, the wind teasing her salt-ruined hair. Orc knew what she was thinking: a zig this size was more likely to be the one they were searching for.

Also more likely to drown him.

Her fingers squeezed through the spongy rubber of his wetsuit. ‘Don’t think about whether this is it. Treat it as routine. There’s bound to be an artefact to sell in one this big.’

And they needed the money, Orc knew. He'd brought nothing up from the last two sites.

‘Hoi, outlander!’ called Ibben’s thin voice from back at the tiller. Orc turned to meet the gazes of the old man and his grandson. Eyes like dark stones, especially Esteban’s.

‘You see it?’ said Ibben.

‘Hard to miss,’ Orc said.

‘Yes, the water is clear,’ said Ibben, ‘the sea is light. We’ll sail around it. You can see enough from the boat.’

‘No, we need to get in.’

Ibben’s eyes narrowed harder. ‘In the Dwelling?’

Orc almost winced as Cass’s grip tightened on his knee. ‘The water.’

‘No need. You can see from the boat.’

***

It also points up that Cass is possibly sharper than he is. OTOH I don't want him to seem stupid.

 

[Mouse]

I don't understand the first line. At all. But I presume it makes sense in context.

I'd just put an 'uh' in. I like to make good use of an 'uh.' People don't use them enough in writing. So basically, add hesitation.

And I see you've added more as I was writing this, so this is redundant now. But who doesn't like seeing fifty million responses all practically saying the same thing, eh?

 

[Brian G Turner]

The truthful answer to Ibben's question "In the Dwelling?" is "Yes." But at that moment, Orc instinctively recognises that he should not say this. But he doesn't have time to articulate to himself why, it's just a reaction to Ibben's hard look and perhaps a tone of suspicion in his voice.

I actually see all that implied in the original piece. It's clear - to me - that Orc is purposefully evading the question, and there's talk of potential treasure and a curse of sorts all in the same scene.

Also, because of his earlier comment, he's worrying about diving safely, before thinking next on the ziggurat. So his answer covers both possibilities - evasion, and focus on the first obstacle.

So, IMO, this would be a case of allowing the reader to figure out what was happening, rather than worry that the reader isn't going to figure out every nuance you want them to get. That way, you can keep the focus on the larger elements of danger and tension.

2c.

 

[HareBrain]

HB, when I read this originally I actually loved how succinct those two words were..I knew there was deception behind Orc's response to Ibben.

I actually see all that implied in the original piece.

That's reassuring, thanks. I think sometimes I look too hard for how things might be misread, and lose sight of how unlikely it sometimes is.

I'd still be interested in whether people think the new line about Cass gripping his knee works, but otherwise I might leave it as it was.

 

[The Judge]

I like the idea of the new line, but I'd drop the "Orc almost winced" so it's a plain "Cass's grip tightened on his knee." then add something like "Orc understood/Orc took the hint. 'No,' he lied. 'In the water.' "

Re the "No" -- I think you need this as Ibben's question is getting too far from the reply, so we need to refer back to it to make the sentence gel. I'd also keep in the "he lied" as it is good to make it clear.

 

[tinkerdan]

If you wanted to give clues that he's telling a lie you might have him shift his eyes back and forth. Though that's not 100% since I saw it happen in a court of law and those responsible for making the judgments believed the witness because of their age.

PS.
I'm a bit dense here, and have trouble with zig-to-dwelling-to-what it might be that they see; through all the clear water. Mostly because I'm having trouble with how we might define Zig and Dwelling in this piece. But I'm obviously not your target audience so it most likely doesn't matter.

 

[HareBrain]

After mucho experimentato I've got this:

Orc held his gaze. 'The water.'

No idea why it took me two-hundred years to think of it. Thanks all for your help.

 

[crystal haven]

That works well for me.

 

[J Riff]

It says 'uh, er, um' here... but do Orcs say that, or do they have a special word for it like maybe Urg? Well, good luck with it, eh?

 

[Ray McCarthy]

His name is Orc, he isn't one.

 

[J Riff]

er... um.... ahhhh... oh well, I knew that of course... and er.... ehhhhh*