Censoring Ebooks: The Clean Reader Brouhaha...

whose delicate sensibilities wilt at the sight of a swear word.
Or a nipple.
But graphic violence seems to be more acceptable.
I wonder how a Country Ramble with female dog admiring those little blue and yellow and other related bird would fare?
Somewhere with an interesting name in Surrey.
 
I agree with some of this but there are caveats I would like to see implemented::
I actually agree. So long as the app is legal and the authors get their royalty, then we're simply seeing user choice in action - a principle normally supported on the internet. As a reader it doesn't bother me that some people might prefer to pay for slightly different variations of the text.
:: Yes if I'm desperate to sell to a whole segment of readers who don't like my work I could agree to this, but this sounds like we eliminate the author from this choices now. This type of egregious editing sets this company in the realm of being an editor and as such they should be entered into some form of contract with the copyright holder and have an agreement. If the author withdraws and says I don't want my work slaughtered by you then they should respect that. If they come to an agreement it should be one that financially benefits both parties.[This means it must also respect the contract the author has with the original publisher.]::
If the author says no to this publisher[Or the original publisher does not want to play with this group] there are still copies of the book out there somewhere and anyone wanting to buy those and slaughter them has the right to do so for personal purposes but not for distribution. This is why the program must be sold to the user with full editing capabilities to set their own parameters. To not do so means that they make it impossible for the user to edit that book; because the company and their program have no right [see above about agreement] to alter the book. If they change the software they should probably have a warning message that explains this to the user.

Heck, many books are published that are edited down or otherwise abridged from the authors original manuscript. Stephen King and Neil Gaiman immediately come to mind as authors who were not happy with the edited down versions of some of their books, and and were able to release full versions later. Readers originally had no choice - now they do. Is now having that choice wrong? Should be burn all those edited down version of The Stand or American Gods?

I'm not sure how this might pertain to the arguments since I would have to guess that in these cases the publisher and or the author have authorized the editions or they wouldn't be publishable. This is all accomplished through mutual consent.

What about all those abridged classics? Where's the brouhaha about those for depriving the reader of the original author's words?
Once again mutual consent.
::
This next could be seen as slightly dicier; but in fact it's not.
Censoring for profanity is ordinary in film, TV, and music - again, without consumer consent, and it's been going on for decades. Classic songs by The Doors such as Break On Through and The End that you may enjoy are censored versions, with the original versions not available until long after in collectors editions. If I watch rock music channel Scuzz and they play Fall Out Boy's hit This ain't a scene, it's an arm's race then the word "God" will be muted in "Goddamn". No user choice - it's enforced by the channel censors.

Once again there is a mutual consent that there are rules that must be interpreted and then they must abide by them.
So why the big protests about user choice being available for books?

The difference here would only show up in perhaps libraries because the cited example above is a regulated mass media distribution available to almost anyone. So yes if a library wanted to use the program then that would work; though again mutual consent should somehow apply [because right now on smashwords an author can chose to not make his work available to libraries and I might guess that that could apply in other areas.]
If I were published, and this was applied to my writings, then of course I'd probably be indignant.
[no comment]
But consumers generally welcome choice, and is apparently a good thing - unless you personally disagree with the choices made.
Authors have never in any way endangered the consumers choice. They can chose to buy or not to buy-to check out from library or not to checkout from library. Authors might chose to say-no do not condense my story or no do not censor and still not remove the consumers ability to chose.

In some basic sense I agree with what you are saying and as a hungry author I'm sure I would be tempted to let all of these things slide in reference to my work; if I could get my work in the hands of more people.

Profanity is not something I feel is dangerous and is not something I feel I need to staunchly defend to my own loss so the removal of profanity doesn't bother me.

What does bother me is what comes next or in many cases what come accidentally along with the filter. There are parts of my work that might be considered even more dangerous than profanity that can't be easily filtered without destroying the story and I'm pretty sure that anyone honestly upset by the profanity might likely be more upset about those more important areas of the writing and should not read it for that reason. What I'm referring to are the ideals and notions that lie within character thoughts and motives and there is no effective filter that can be used on those that does not destroy the work. I think that these high minded people should look at the profanity as the warning sign that behind all of that might lie the more insidious ideas that will erode whatever moral platform they are trying to defend by bleeping out profanity. They should be happy the profanity is there to make them put the work down; because if they are that closed minded then the book will never be a benefit to them : They won't want to understand it.
 
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I'm writing my new app that allows me to republish without permission as it live edits the downloaded full text (just as Clean Reader does).
Modes:
1) British to American
2) American to British
3) make tame expletives stronger (2 settings, nasty and foul), or strong ones weaker (2 settings).
4) Replace any word that might be a body part with with tamer , slang (US or UK) or medical term, or vice versa

What does the USA "Clean Reader" do with "Fanny"? It may have a tame USA meaning, rude UK meaning or be a name of a person.
Or Faggot? (Stick, item of mince meat or type of person)
Is "Bitch" really profanity? Why do "Clean Reader" change Female dogs to Witches?

I'm sure mine will sell much better because it will be free. You only have to buy the books, which by special in book advertising (turned on later) will price match iTunes, Amazon, Smashwords etc.

I'll not tell you that I'm storing which settings you use on which books. All suppliers get correct price per copy. So no-one is cheated, right?

Like "Clean Reader" I decide what changes are automatically applied, though you can email suggestion for cleaner or dirtier.

I'm calling it "Spicy Sugar" Reader.

Should I have a "random settings mode"?
 
But there are the make it dirtier and more explicit settings ... (Spicy)
Should it search and download (in)appropriate artwork to match the settings?
 
all right alright,
'Sugar & Spicy'n & Ever'thin' Nicene'

But I think that it should be designed to download and mate with the novel then spit out this message.

"Has been returned to author for further edits."
 
Ultimately, I think the kind of people in the US (who are, for me, as exotic as unicorns, since I have never met one and only heard of them) for whom this application is (possibly) developed aren't ever going to read your book the way you intended it anyhow.
 
These are not at all the same. When you preach, they hear the words you say and want them to hear in the order and word choice you intended. This is akin to you preaching, but while you preach, someone like me randomly picks a dozen words I don't like and without you even knowing, I cut off your mic while you're preaching and substitute my own words. You have no recourse, no way to know what words I'm cutting, and no control over what I replace it with. I could drop every "Jesus" and change it to "Satan" and you would be none the wiser and powerless to stop it. Does that make sense to you? I can completely alter the tone and meaning of what you're saying. Does it make it ok just because the audience might like what I'm doing better than they would have like hearing what you actually said?

Yes, your audience may interpret what you say different than you intend, but they will do it based on what YOU said, not some third party. So you're absolutely wrong in saying they don't hear what you say... they hear literally exactly what they say, whether they like the words or not. They can choose to ignore what they don't like, but they still have to hear it the way you intended to say it and base their reaction off that. If you tell the story of the Good Samaritan and they hear it as praising the robber, that's not your fault. However, it COULD be my fault if, without you knowing, I altered the story and now it actually sounds that way.

You make some good points and the analogy holds to a degree. But I can't remember ever reading a book where the profanity was the central point of the story. The closest I can come to that would be "On Golden Pond," where the unabated profanity by the ex-professor was his way of expressing his anger.* Replacing "Jesus" with "Satan" would amount to changing the central point of the story much as would the replacing ISIS with USA.

* (I liked the story well enough, but even as a teenager I thought that the anger could have been portrayed much more realistically in sarcasm or such; a much more likely coping mechanism in an ex-professor. If he had been more blue collar, I might have bought it a bit more.)
 
Ultimately, I think the kind of people in the US (who are, for me, as exotic as unicorns, since I have never met one and only heard of them) for whom this application is (possibly) developed aren't ever going to read your book the way you intended it anyhow.

I don't think that's true to be honest. I've known quite a few of these unicorns over the years and my children are related to a number of them. They are mostly normal people and that's why they want to read the books without compromising what they believe.
 
But I can't remember ever reading a book where the profanity was the central point of the story
I'd usually stop reading and put it in the bin.
Or maybe even do that if the text is unreadable (which may not involve profanity at all).
I think I started to read Catch 22 when I was a teen.
1) I believe this application isn't really user editing, it's republishing, and they think they have a loop hole to make it legal. I'd be surprised if it is, even if full royalty is paid.
2) If successful and not declared illegal, my version will be done by someone.
3) They can change their minds at any stage what the database is for substitution. It's a simple automatic search & replace (decided by them) after you download (they kid themselves it's not republishing, it's "republishing on demand").

This isn't about profanity or "rude" words or Children. It's cynical deliberate republishing to suit a certain demographic. I suspect they have talked to lawyers that are not good enough, or don't understand what the app is really doing.
 
They are mostly normal people and that's why they want to read the books without compromising what they believe.
It needs to be done honestly
1) They don't read it
OR
2) They get Official publisher Bowdlerised versions.
This is a cheat. So far they are getting away with it because they are paying for every copy they republish. There is no ultimate difference between giving 20,000 people a copy you edit first and a full copy you remotely edit on their reader (everyone is getting the same republished versions, there is only end user choice of the versions (cleaned or ultracleaned). The user is NOT editing / censoring. What they are doing is not possible on printed books. Everyone is getting the SAME two alternate texts. That is republishing (breach of copyright) even if you pay for each copy.
 
Um. In what way is this not about user choice? It's not that the user accidentally installs this and is astonished at the effect it has on books. It's a deliberate decision. The issue with censoring a book yourself is you have to read it -- that is, you have to read something you find offensive -- this way, you don't have to.

Yes, it could be a slippery slope (but so could lots of things) and yes, it's about control being with the user instead of the producer, but if there's a demand for such things, and they let people access fiction they would not otherwise read, I think it's a good thing.

(arguably)
 
I'm writing my new app that allows me to republish without permission as it live edits the downloaded full text ....
You're missing a huge opportunity here: changing the gender of characters**. (This is probably easier to achieve if the 'sexual content depiction' setting is set to 'low' or 'none'.)


** - The names could be automatically switched, I suppose, but it would probably be better used in conjunction with the 'change character names' function.
 
In what way is this not about user choice?
It's only the same choice as buying an original text or one of two official republished Bowdlerised version.
The user is making no changes (choices) to the wording. The Clean reader people are making the choices. They decide the two levels of forbidden "bad" words and the substitutes. Everyone that buys into this gets the same two alternate versions. That's 3rd party editing / republishing. It's irrelevant that it's done on the users eReader app, the only user choice is picking the one of two official republished Bowdlerised versions, not any of the changes.

It's about control being with the user instead of the producer,
No. The third party database of "Clean Reader" folk is in control.
This doesn't involve user editing/censoring/choice. The "Clean Reader" folk's database is their choice and blindly applied! The ONLY the control the user has is to report more words and chose two alternate versions. The "Clean Reader" people decide what the two alternate versions are, not reader, publisher or author.

Initially I was cross at this abuse of copyright. Now I'm getting excited about the financial return, if this is mysteriously legal. I'm sorry but I'm broke. It's my choice to embrace the dark side of the force and do it better than "Clean Reader".
 
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changing the gender of characters
My beta testers will suggest stuff like that. Full LGBT spectrum! More complicated. You actually have to parse the stuff. So far we (and "Clean Reader") is just mindless Search & Replace at "run time" based on the database automatically updated from the cloud every time you download a title.
 
You're missing a huge opportunity here: changing the gender of characters**. (This is probably easier to achieve if the 'sexual content depiction' setting is set to 'low' or 'none'.)


** - The names could be automatically switched, I suppose, but it would probably be better used in conjunction with the 'change character names' function.

This. Brilliant.

I await the software so that I can get stuck into Andy Karenina and Jim Eyre
 
I await the software so that I can get stuck into Andy Karenina and Jim Eyre
You'll have a long wait. The basic version I can do easily, names and gender is probably beyond my abilities, based on lack of my progress parsing free form text for adventure gaming.

Of course for amusement I could easily add consistent random name replacement for any names I put in a database. But all She / He / Her /Him etc would be unchanged. Names not prelisted would be left as is.
 
There might be other issues: would one get Julia Caesar, Julia Sees Him or Julia Seize Him...?
 
But people choose to buy the app...

(it's not that I don't have beliefs, but I don't believe very strongly in this one way or the other so I should probably go and do something more valuable with my time. Like write Jim Eyre.)
 
But people choose to buy the app...

(it's not that I don't have beliefs, but I don't believe very strongly in this one way or the other so I should probably go and do something more valuable with my time. Like write Jim Eyre.)

As long as he doesn't go off with that loser Rochester (Edna or Edward?)
 
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