Are bookshops failing us?
- Thread starter Jo Zebedee
- Start date
The Bluestocking
Bloody Mary in Blue
I live in the 2nd largest city in the country. We have 2 branches of the only dedicated bookseller less than a quarter of a mile from each other (and nowhere else), 2 branches of the only surviving chain of genre booksellers (except that one only sells comics and the other doesn't deal in books that much), a second hand bookshop, several branches of a chain newsagent that sells books, and a whole lot of charity shops. What's killed the second hand book dealer here has been the charity shop. They don't pay for stock and they don't pay staff and they still charge more than the remaining second hand dealer.
Connavar
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Apr 1, 2007
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I count myself lucky as I live in Melbourne, Australia which is generally regarded as the country's 's cultural capital (Adelaide may have something to say about this as well as our 'rival' Sydney) not to mention the world's 'most liveable City' (fourth year in a row and something like 7 out of the last 10 years) as problematic as these types of awards can be...so we are probably doing something right.
Well you aussies also have the English language as first language and that is a big advantage on the rest of us. Nice for you to have so much to choose in Melbourne bookshops. We must keep the real stores alive wherever we are in the globe.
FACT: World happiest countries
1. Schweiz
2. Iceland
3. Denmark
4. Norway
5. Kanada
6. Finland
7. Holland
8. Sweden
9. Nya Zeeland
10. Australia
2015 World Happiness Report
Both of us are in pretty happy, liveable places and the culture cities must help
Weeell...seeing that I'm both a Swiss AND Australian citizen I figure I'm still ahead of you....Both of us are in pretty happy, liveable places and the culture cities must help
You make a good point though. Having English as a first language is a pretty big advantage these days.
Ray McCarthy
Sentient Marmite: The Truth may make you fret.
Here they mostly only put out the sort of titles currently in Tesco. Though you can be lucky. A lot of hardbacks, SF & F they dump!
I must see will some take a 25c per copy bulk rate to keep stuff they don't want!
Oxfam are sometimes barely below Tesco new book prices.
Most Charity shops are 2 Euro with some shops (Sue Rider) at 1 Euro.
There is one really enormous good 2nd hand shop, but he's rarely open, hardly anything has prices marked. I suppose Easons has largest selection. They charge more than UK Recommended here for everything, claim it's due to currency fluctuations Sterling - Euro. That's after taking Irish VAT on books & Magazines into account. They are also the main Irish wholesale supplier.
Tesco is hurting the real bookshops FAR more than the Charity shops. One bookshop told me so. They only stock titles practically g'teed to sell well titles and undercut the bookshops (who mostly have their wholesale prices too high due to Eason's currency hedging).
I suspect charity shops (except Oxfam) only really affecting 2nd hand shops.
Overread
Searching for a flower
Bookstores are failing us - but so too is the government failing bookstores.
The highstreet itself is a very injured beast; the rates and rentals are high; the roads not best suited to heavy traffic; the parking iffy and expensive and the big series of chain stores outside of town with the free open easy parking just off the main road do most of what many want.
It's a big reason we are seeing so many charity shops because they don't have to pay rates; don't always have to pay staff and don't have to pay for stock. Food outlets do well also because of the constant stream of customers on a daily basis whilst clothing and shoots are, from what I've seen, solid but iffy - that is to say bigger chains seem to do well but the smaller ones there's a LOT of switch-around (which suggests short term viability, but not long term). Furthermore many of the stores we do have are getting pushed out of the good regions and into the more marginal and back-streets. The rent is less, but you also get far less footfall of customers and some areas can even turn away others (they don't want to walk that far or go into that area that looks a "bit dodgy").
Bookstores also have an added problem - stock. Your average customer only wants current, top selling titles and casual customers are always greater in number than specialist. Thing is your specialist now has a vast wealth of options and each specialist is going to want different niche titles. So yes a specialist is going to be the sort of customer who can and will spend more as an individual, but you can't keep them stocked up on the shelves easily unless you've a niche genre and large store - and as we said with the rates and rent that is less and less viable.
The other thing is a lot of bookstores are now trading online; they near on have too to keep up with the costs; by which point if they do their online well they will quickly take more there with less overhead which gives a big incentive to close up and trade online - often through Ebay and Amazon retail outlets. I know a lot of hobby shops have gone this way as its the only way they can survive.
Now I love bookstores, second hand and new, but its fast the case that if I go in I can find titles, but never quite the ones I want. Either they've only got 1 or 2 books in the series or they don't have them at all. Now I can order it in - by which point I have to come into town again to pick it up. A home delivery system I think would do many a bookstore a lot of good in that regard - however then again if you're doing home deliveries and you're online - why have a shop at all?
Personally I think government should start to realise that the market has changed and that gouging the small and highstreet stores isn't going to work and that long term its just pushing more and more retailers and customers into the online market; where honestly its not friendly to multiple small stores. Unless you can capture a niche no one else fills and advertise a LOT chances are online ends up boiling down to a much smaller number of national servicing retail outlets (and often as not if you look behind the scenes a good few are owned by the same group).
So it cuts down on market diversity; cuts down on competition; increase the chance of big companies using big tax dodges (Amazon - because if the dodge is legal and there then well paid accountants will use it); and likely, I think, increases unemployment because now you've got a few big warehouses rather than a large number of little shops and all the infrastructure they had.
Interestingly second hand book stores seem to be doing well; I suspect because their stock is oft dirt cheap - then again on Amazon there's a range of retailers selling second hand books in good condition for £0.01 with only £2 postage or so from America. With stores willing to have profit margins that tiny can even our dogged second hand stores hold out - esp when they are having the market squeezed by more and more charity shops*?
PS on the subject of Tescos they will sell books as a loss leader. They did that with Harry Potter; they were selling books retail for less than wholesale. Thus meaning that any bookshops could not compete with price at all. Tesco's did it because they knew if they got you in to get the book then chances are you're going to buy a lot of other things in other areas of their huge stores.
They can take the loss there and bulk up on profit in sales in other departments.
Other big retailers can do the same thing - its one of those cases where a fixed single price for a product set by government would; at least; even the odds for the smaller retailer against the giant (and honestly it also does government good as it means you don't get mega-companies who suddenly have a VAST amount of public influence and power).
*I will say charity shops tend to not do themselves much of a favour; indeed whilst some are very good a large number have very poor displays; often very jumbled and no focus - plus shelf space is oft limited because they try to sell everything all at once so diversity is reduced within a niche - but you can still find one or two gems if you're willing to hunt.
The highstreet itself is a very injured beast; the rates and rentals are high; the roads not best suited to heavy traffic; the parking iffy and expensive and the big series of chain stores outside of town with the free open easy parking just off the main road do most of what many want.
It's a big reason we are seeing so many charity shops because they don't have to pay rates; don't always have to pay staff and don't have to pay for stock. Food outlets do well also because of the constant stream of customers on a daily basis whilst clothing and shoots are, from what I've seen, solid but iffy - that is to say bigger chains seem to do well but the smaller ones there's a LOT of switch-around (which suggests short term viability, but not long term). Furthermore many of the stores we do have are getting pushed out of the good regions and into the more marginal and back-streets. The rent is less, but you also get far less footfall of customers and some areas can even turn away others (they don't want to walk that far or go into that area that looks a "bit dodgy").
Bookstores also have an added problem - stock. Your average customer only wants current, top selling titles and casual customers are always greater in number than specialist. Thing is your specialist now has a vast wealth of options and each specialist is going to want different niche titles. So yes a specialist is going to be the sort of customer who can and will spend more as an individual, but you can't keep them stocked up on the shelves easily unless you've a niche genre and large store - and as we said with the rates and rent that is less and less viable.
The other thing is a lot of bookstores are now trading online; they near on have too to keep up with the costs; by which point if they do their online well they will quickly take more there with less overhead which gives a big incentive to close up and trade online - often through Ebay and Amazon retail outlets. I know a lot of hobby shops have gone this way as its the only way they can survive.
Now I love bookstores, second hand and new, but its fast the case that if I go in I can find titles, but never quite the ones I want. Either they've only got 1 or 2 books in the series or they don't have them at all. Now I can order it in - by which point I have to come into town again to pick it up. A home delivery system I think would do many a bookstore a lot of good in that regard - however then again if you're doing home deliveries and you're online - why have a shop at all?
Personally I think government should start to realise that the market has changed and that gouging the small and highstreet stores isn't going to work and that long term its just pushing more and more retailers and customers into the online market; where honestly its not friendly to multiple small stores. Unless you can capture a niche no one else fills and advertise a LOT chances are online ends up boiling down to a much smaller number of national servicing retail outlets (and often as not if you look behind the scenes a good few are owned by the same group).
So it cuts down on market diversity; cuts down on competition; increase the chance of big companies using big tax dodges (Amazon - because if the dodge is legal and there then well paid accountants will use it); and likely, I think, increases unemployment because now you've got a few big warehouses rather than a large number of little shops and all the infrastructure they had.
Interestingly second hand book stores seem to be doing well; I suspect because their stock is oft dirt cheap - then again on Amazon there's a range of retailers selling second hand books in good condition for £0.01 with only £2 postage or so from America. With stores willing to have profit margins that tiny can even our dogged second hand stores hold out - esp when they are having the market squeezed by more and more charity shops*?
PS on the subject of Tescos they will sell books as a loss leader. They did that with Harry Potter; they were selling books retail for less than wholesale. Thus meaning that any bookshops could not compete with price at all. Tesco's did it because they knew if they got you in to get the book then chances are you're going to buy a lot of other things in other areas of their huge stores.
They can take the loss there and bulk up on profit in sales in other departments.
Other big retailers can do the same thing - its one of those cases where a fixed single price for a product set by government would; at least; even the odds for the smaller retailer against the giant (and honestly it also does government good as it means you don't get mega-companies who suddenly have a VAST amount of public influence and power).
*I will say charity shops tend to not do themselves much of a favour; indeed whilst some are very good a large number have very poor displays; often very jumbled and no focus - plus shelf space is oft limited because they try to sell everything all at once so diversity is reduced within a niche - but you can still find one or two gems if you're willing to hunt.
I agree with a lot of that, but I think rates is a local government matter.
Lower rates would help reinvigorate the high streets, and ultimately be a good thing. However, local councils have tight budgets (and even without that, many would dislike the notion of reducing their income).
Lower rates would help reinvigorate the high streets, and ultimately be a good thing. However, local councils have tight budgets (and even without that, many would dislike the notion of reducing their income).
Overread
Searching for a flower
Aye but reducing sometimes increases. I know the local town where we are is now doing 1 hour free parking in the main carpark and its packed. Towns far more active than before - yes its free, but the result is more people actually go into town. Same as supermarkets who have huge carparks and don't charge anything. They know that they will make up the income in other ways.
I think local councils and estate agents would do well to help give hte highstreet a boost by reducing the overheads they impose. Then again with inner town planning I think some are trying to kill their central highstreets and instead push retail out-of-town; less need for complex one-way systems - less need for traffic congestion problems and less need to invest in more high-density parking.
I think local councils and estate agents would do well to help give hte highstreet a boost by reducing the overheads they impose. Then again with inner town planning I think some are trying to kill their central highstreets and instead push retail out-of-town; less need for complex one-way systems - less need for traffic congestion problems and less need to invest in more high-density parking.
I also agree, but the problem is that business rates are one of the few options local government has to raise revenue in these times of cuts to central government grants. They also don't get voted into office by local businesses so as long as they keep the council tax low the residents will keep voting for them. Right up to the day when the businesses have had enough and close down - then they will find no cash cows left, no jobs and empty high street watstelands. Clearly, it is the responsibility of central government to take a lead on doing something about this.
There are also too many retail properties on, and just off, high streets. Rather than attempting to keep every single one of them all open, someone needs to make strategic planning decisions about which ones to keep and which ones to be allowed to waste away. At the moment this is a problem that is being pushed away to deal with another day. Residents have totally unrealistic opinions on this. They blame the local councils for letting shops close, when it is a business decision, while they are the ones who aren't using the shops while they are still there. They also want a high street with a butcher, baker and candlestick maker - these days are clearly gone forever. You cannot roll back time.
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