To Kindle or not to Kindle...

[portman]

Hi Guys - Sorry if I've stuck this in the wrong section - I thought general book discussion was the way to go...

Simply - Is it worth getting a Kindle? Although I'll always prefer proper printed books, I'm finding I'm reading less these days (well it's one of the reasons anyway) because I don't get chance to read in bed anymore as my wife suffers from insomnia and I can't have the light on. And I just can't seem to get on with a reading light. So I was thinking about getting a paper white one with the lit screen. So are they any good? My wife has a Kindle Fire but it's usless to read on - too heavy and it hurts my eyes after ten minutes.

Or should I not bother...I have to say durning the day I'll be reading a proper book anyway.

What are your veiws?

Cheers

Port.

 

[Brian G Turner]

I was initially very sceptical - I like books, holding them, etc, so why should I bother using a Kindle?

However, I bought a basic one for business purposes (to test magazine layouts for a project I was producing) and tested it out with sample magazines, and a couple of books.

Ever since then, I haven't looked back.

In about 15 mins, I'm going to walk away from my computer, and sit down in the front room with my Kindle Fire and read a good novel on it, while listening to music I've also set up for it.

They are just so useful and versatile.

These days, I tend to buy physical books only for favourites I buy new, or second-hand ones for research.

Even better - as an aspiring writer, I can call up my Kindle books on my PC, and search through the text to examine specific examples of prose, structure, etc.

 

[Ray McCarthy]

But a Kindle fire is really an LCD Tablet with an eReader App. No different to an Android Tablet (it's actually customised Android).

The real advantage Kindle formats are the eInk based Kindles, which are not much use for anything other than eBooks, that is their advantage too.

LCD backlights are too blue. That suppresses Melatonin at night vs an incandescent / halogen reading lamp, so bad for late reading compared to eInk (don't use LED or CFL as reading lamps late at night either, too blue, colour temperature is a poor guide due to poor colour rendition of CFL and especially poor LED).
Backlights never adjust properly to ambient light
LCD and especially back light is power hungry. The CPU in tablets like Fire are power hungry too to enable video and colour.

The eInk takes no power at all except when you turn page. It's the closest approach to paper as it's purely passive. It uses what ever lighting you read a book with. The early ones were a bit grey. The latest Kindle Touch drops the added LED front lights used on the Kindle Paperwhite as it doesn't need additional light. The Kindle Paperwhite only needs its LEDs if it's too dim ambient light to read an old paperback.

for eBooks you only need 6" eInk Kindle. For PDFs (or old scanned books made into PDF) you need the Kindle DXG, about 11" (only on Amazon.com, but worldwide shipping).

I convert websites and documents into eBooks. I proof read my own texts on Kindle (Word/Libre Office -> export HTML -> Mobi Creator, which is what Amazon does, but I'd rather not put my own stuff in their cloud, so I use USB transfer).

I rarely use Kindle Reader App on my Tablet, phone, Netbook or 1600 x 1200 laptop. I've owned 1st type Paperwhite and only gave it to wife to get a Kindle DXG. One son has 2nd gen Paperwhite, daughter has latest Kindle Touch, two other sons have 3nd gen Kindles (no touch or keyboard), slightly greyer.
None would part with them.
All have lots of regular books, laptops, smartphones, and some have tablets too.

I've compared now five eInk models Kindle and all are superior to Fire, regular Android Tablet, Big phones, netbook, laptop etc for simply reading. All do search and annotation. The models with touch OR keyboard are best for annotation. For a lot of annotation, the best current model might be large DXG as it has real keyboard. It's actually "old stock" and pre-dates the Paper White (4th Gen screen I think).

 

[Idoru]

I was sceptical too, but I'm a bit of gadget junkie and so got a basic one as a present. I loved it. I've now got a Paperweight and I read all the time. I've also made the mistake* of following loads of authors on Twitter who recommend books that I end up buying. I end up buying them there and then on my phone and having them delivered straight to my Kindle. It's got so bad** that I end up connecting my Kindle to the wireless and find two or three books that I can't even remember buying.

I don't really like recommending people to part with their hard-earned cash, but for me it was a very worthwhile investment. I buy and read many, many books; I've discovered loads of new authors; I've read books I never would have done otherwise, many of which are in translation; most of the books I buy are a couple of quid; I have access to hundreds of books so always have something to read; if I'm reading a series I can download the next one immediately (if it's been published!); I've got the Kindle app on my iPhone and my Android tablet (I said I liked gadgets ...), so really can read whenever I want. I don't really use the apps very much, for the reasons given above. That said, I think illustrated books and magazines would work much better on my Android tablet than on the black-and-white Paperwhite.


* Not really a mistake
** Not really a bad thing.

 

[Ray McCarthy]

Also the easiest way to read old public domain eTexts:
http://www.gutenberg.org/

also some can be found on archive.org AKA "The wayback machine".

That said, I think illustrated books and magazines would work much better on my Android tablet than on the black-and-white Paperwhite.

The eInk is best for reading, though it will render sensibly inserted images in monochrome.

Illustrated books & Magazines, esp where the text is dressing on the images, and Magazines are still best on paper, or at worst a very large Tablet or greater than HD resolution laptop (HD is actually a reduction in computer resolution, more than 1080 lines was becoming common on Laptops and LCD monitors till HD TV became popular.)

Now 1920x 1080 TV panels are used to reduce cost, for decent laptop / monitor reading of magazines, PDFs and Coloured Books, you need 1200 vertical minimum, and 1800 is better. 4:3 is more useful than 16:9 TV format too as then you can have 15" to 16" screen, but reading a page in 16:9 format landscape needs 17" to 20" screen (in both cases 1200 lines minimum, 1080 so called "full HD" simply isn't enough for full pages.

 

[thaddeus6th]

Not sure if it's still up, but the Sacred Texts website have/had a large collection of free works (not just religious, they also have classical, history etc etc).

 

[Ray McCarthy]

Most of those seem to be on Gutenberg, sometimes in better quality. You also may need to "unzip" the file, format it and convert to eBook. Amazon's own "free" conversion system simply uses the freely available Mobicreator, and gives Amazon a copy forever. You can do better "at home".

Perhaps I should do an article on Mobicreator, Calibre (needed to convert epub), how to save and convert multiple webpages as an eBook, how to manage images for Kindle, PDF recreation (changing margin/size) or export to images or text etc.

 

[mosaix]

Books for me.

 

[Brian G Turner]

But a Kindle fire is really an LCD Tablet with an eReader App. No different to an Android Tablet

I'm simply pointing out that I'm now happy to read books electronically, after being cautious about it.

The Kindle Fire HD I bought offered more features at a far better price than any general Android tablet. The fact that I can listen to music on it while reading, and also stop to make notes in my writing files on the same device, means I now use it instead of the basic Kindle, which I also own.

Perhaps I should do an article on Mobicreator, Calibre (needed to convert epub), how to save and convert multiple webpages as an eBook, how to manage images for Kindle, PDF recreation (changing margin/size) or export to images or text etc.

That might be a good idea.

 

[Ray McCarthy]

I'm simply pointing out that I'm now happy to read books electronically, after being cautious about it.

I understood that, honest.

I was just trying to point out advantages and disadvantages of eInk vs LCD. Obviously Amazon must be selling the Fire close to cost, it's good value for a tablet. Once you ignore Apple and Samsung there are cheap tablets of course. My 6" tablet has an amazingly rubbish quality LCD screen compared to my 13 year old laptop though (very shiny vs matte finish, poor viewing angle and poorer colour) . So I recommend people check out cheap Tablets physically rather than rely on online reviews. Shiny can result in eye strain if any movement in reflected image and also reduces readability. The eInk displays are not as non-reflective as my 2002 laptop, but far less reflective than any newer Laptop, tablet or phone I have. So fine when there is bright sun in one window, or bright spot lamps etc.

These things are so cheap compared to a Mac Air, iPad or decent Lenovo laptop you can justify a Kindle Touch, Kindle Fire and big Kindle DXG as they are complementary. If you have decent tablet and/or laptop and don't need PDFs, then the £75 / €90 approx Kindle Touch is best place to start. You'd buy a Kindle Touch, Kindle Fire and big Kindle DXG (all three) for less than price of decent iPad or Laptop.

I prefer to buy physical books, but I'll buy cheap books for Kindle and reading the old Public Domain eTexts/ eBooks isn't sensible without an eInk screen (but I read a huge amount and still after 18 years of laptops and 35 years of computers I prefer eInk or paper to the best LCD screens on phone/tablet/laptop for reading more than a few pages.).

 

[Idoru]

The eInk is best for reading, though it will render sensibly inserted images in monochrome.

This is exactly why I got the Paperwhite rather than the Fire. I've got a really good tablet so just wanted something that was designed just for reading.

 

[Jen526]

I can't speak to LCD screens at all, as my Kindle is from the generation before the Fire came out when eInk was the only option, but I'm another person who was skeptical, but once I got my hands on one, it's been an integral part of my book-reading experience and I've never looked back. I still buy hard-copy books from authors I particularly love and want in my library, but most of my reading is on Kindle these days. Some things I love about it that I don't think have been mentioned:

- Using a reading light is much less complicated with a Kindle than a regular book, in my experience. Since you're not jostling the book around with every page-turn and you don't have that sort of "shift" in the book's center of gravity as you move from front-to-back of the book, it's not as much of a pain to get the light into a workable position and keep it there.

- The ability to send a sample chapter or two to the Kindle with just a quick click on the Amazon site is amazing. I regularly go on a "sampler" spree of just downloading samples of any book that catches my eye even a little bit, and then as I read the samples, they either get removed if the title doesn't seem worth continuing or put into the "wishlist" folder for reference the next time I splurge on new books. The number of new authors I've discovered thanks to this feature is fabulous.

- I also really love that a fair number of older, out-of-print books are showing up with new Kindle releases nowadays, where a new hard-copy print run might not be economical for the author or publisher. I like that I can buy the Kindle copy and have the money go to the author (unlike the purchase of a used hard-copy version).

 

[clovis-man]

My wife has a Kindle Fire but it's usless to read on - too heavy and it hurts my eyes after ten minutes.

Have you tried either the "sepia" or the "white letters on black" options with the Fire? Might be better on the eyes. Can't do much about the weight, though. However, it doesn't weigh as much as an average size hardcover. I just prop mine up on my chest as I read in bed. And if I fall asleep, I don't lose my place, the device goes to sleep along with me.

But I also have to admit that I primarily use the Kindle Fire's book capability for acquiring and reading older, out of print volumes that are otherwise hard to find or too expensive. And it's a bonus that public domain books are quite cheap on Kindle and readily available.

 

[tinkerdan]

I'm all for using the kindle-It makes for a neater stack of books next to my work.

One thing to consider though is once the charger plug or the battery tank on you the price and difficulty of getting that fixed may necessitate purchasing a new one. That much said, that goes for many of those tablet devices.

But you can purchase a reasonable tablet sometimes for less and put kindle for chrome on it. The caveat to that is that I have a chrome book and can testify that there are severe problems that result in whole lines of text missing from pages because of issues dealing with paging on the amazon chrome interface and very little response from them when you lodge a complaint.

When you actually realize a line is missing you can fudge it by changing text size but it shows up again; like a bad penny.

So for less grief I'd go with the kindle.

 

[Ray McCarthy]

Have you tried either the "sepia" or the "white letters on black" options with the Fire

Still just an LCD, so inherently proven harder on eyesight than eInk, for a number of reasons. There is no point in a tablet or LCD for JUST reading texts, especially Gutenberg, the Kindle Touch is best value model kindle for straight text eBook / Novels (post PaperWhite current version, not the pre PaperWhite Touch).
No comparison Fire (It's just an LCD Tablet, not an eReader) vs eInk based current model Kindles for battery life or simply reading text.

chrome book

Not even a proper tablet or laptop, but Cloud based terminal. Kindle Fire, Netbook, decent Tablet all better than a Chrome book. I'd bet too that Chrome Book breaks UK, Swiss, Norwegian and all EU state's Privacy laws.

 

[tinkerdan]

Not even sure about the privacy laws or what you might be referring to.

Not even a proper tablet or laptop, but Cloud based terminal. Kindle Fire, Netbook, decent Tablet all better than a Chrome book. I'd bet too that Chrome Book breaks UK, Swiss, Norwegian and all EU state's Privacy laws.

But my chrome book seems to be the best for one of the more problematic users in my house.

Also many of the tablets out there are using some form of Jelly-bean or other weird designation that comes with chrome within it.
That was the only reason I mentioned Chrome and the Kindle for Chrome app.

I'm not sure what else someone with one of those tablets would use for kindle books and the microsoft tablets are more expensive than the kindles, though they do much more. Still they are quite limited at the price they have attached.

I don't do Apple so have no idea about those.

 

[clovis-man]

Still just an LCD, so inherently proven harder on eyesight than eInk, for a number of reasons. There is no point in a tablet or LCD for JUST reading texts, especially Gutenberg, the Kindle Touch is best value model kindle for straight text eBook / Novels (post PaperWhite current version, not the pre PaperWhite Touch).
No comparison Fire (It's just an LCD Tablet, not an eReader) vs eInk based current model Kindles for battery life or simply reading text.

Without getting into the technological advantages/disadvantages of various devices, I was simply offering a suggestion for the OP to try with a unit he already has in hand. In addition to a choice of print sizes, colors and backgrounds, the Fire also allows the user to pick a preferred brightness level. Just FWIW.

 

[Ray McCarthy]

Microsoft don't do sensible tablets at all.
Apple ones are x2 at least overpriced for what they are.

Any kind of Tablet, inc Fire (stupid Amazon putting "Kindle" in name of it) is more general purpose than a dedicated eReader and poorer to read text and much poorer battery life. It's complementary. For lots of reading text there is no alternative at all yet to eInk screens. There are some non-Kindle eInk screens.

There are four main kinds of eBooks:

1. Amazon: You need a Kindle reader application (which includes built in app on a Fire) or a real Kindle eInk reader due to DRM.
   
2. Other Publishers with DRM based on Adobe, usually ePub.
3. eBooks with no DRM. Usually available as Kindle compatible (Mobi format), plain text, HTML, ePub etc. Can be converted easily to epub (not Kindle app) or mobi (Kindle)
4. PDFs. Often scanned, so can't resize for a smaller than 11" screen

It's possible to remove DRM, not illegal outside USA for personal use, but stupidly illegal in USA.

A Kindle App, or other eReader app for phone, Tablet, netbook, Kindle Fire, laptop, PC etc DOES NOT make an eReader. It's simply poor way to read eBooks on general purpose equipment with usually LCD screens.

Real eReaders have eInk screens (there is now a similar Chinese tech, but it's very grey, like eInk in 2007) and are not much good for anything other than reading as display response time is slow and only 16 shades of grey. They are mechanical. They ALWAYS suit the ambient light level, use ZERO power except for page turns and are closest tech to reading paper. Not all are Kindles, but since anything can be converted to Mobi format and Amazon is largest supplier of eBooks with DRM and subsidizes them a Kindle Touch (or Kindle DXG if you need lots of PDFs). The Paperwhite does have a front light so you can read in the dark, but really Touch is fine if you have enough light for an old paperback. The LED front lights on Paperwhite can only be dimmed, not turned off, so waste battery and help suppress melatonin when reading late at night (all "white" LEDs are in reality blue/violet with yellow phosphor).

 

[Ray McCarthy]

I was simply offering a suggestion for the OP to try with a unit he already has in hand. In addition to a choice of print sizes, colors and backgrounds, the Fire also allows the user to pick a preferred brightness level.

I understand that. This is not specific to Fire. The Kindle Reading App does that on every device. Some people are perfectly happy to read on an LCD. But many people will find LCD (or AMOLED) MUCH more tiring than an eInk display or paper. It's inherent to the technology and is only slightly allieviated by Kindle App settings. I've tried phone, tablet, 3 x laptops, CRT, LCD monitor and there is NO setting I don't find tiring. The eInk Kindle screen though, I can read solid (with breaks for nature) for 16 hours. For several days too, without a recharge (weeks of more normal use). Important to turn off 3G or Wifi of course.

 

[Ray McCarthy]

Why an eInk Kindle is nothing like a Kindle Fire or any Tablet:
http://www.eink.com/blog/37/
also
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EInk#E-ink_Mobius

The not-Tablet dedicated Kindles use eInk

Various versions here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazon_Kindle

Most eInk displays are 212dpi. Apart from "retina" resolution phones, tablets and laptops, most LCD are 90dpi to 120dpi. A few LCD from 2002 were 133dpi. All current Kindle are 4G Byte storage, but only 3G Byte may be available to user. That's a HUGE amount of eBooks. Even adding many with images (x2 to x10 larger size than text only) free from www.gutenberg.org for last year I still have about 2/3rds free.

Currently Amazon seem to have in eInk (in order Old to New):

• Kindle DX, Actually the Kindle DXG, the 3rd version of DX. An older Pearl screen. The original DX is a greyer pre-pearl screen. 9.7". Ships worldwide from Amazon.com and has 3G (free Amazon & Wikipedia, otherwise 60Mbyte a month) and USB, no WiFi. Kindle 2nd Generation Firmware, so no Chinese, Hebrew, Cyrillic. Physical keyboard. Hardware is roughly 4th Generation Kindle. Has MP3 playback (rudimentary) and very basic Text to Speech. DXG has very limited font styles.
  
• Kindle Paperwhite 6". Pearl screen with LED front light. This is 2nd version of Paperwhite. Full international support. various versions (with or with out 3G, all have WiFi and USB). Basically 6th Generation eInk Kindle.
  
• Kindle Touch 6". Slightly different to pre-Paperwhite II Touch. (with or with out 3G, all have WiFi and USB). 7th Generation Kindle. Good International support.
  
• Kindle Voyage 6". Staggering 300dpi display, so better images and readability than any other Kindle. (with or with out 3G, all have WiFi and USB).

Some versions are cheaper if advert supported (the advert is displayed when it's off). Others are the same price in some markets. By default the Amazon web site offers advert supported version. Other than the DXG all can only be ordered from Amazon for your Country, but often in retail such as Tesco at same price. Delivery is often free and even for DXG to Ireland from USA was three days and free.

Avoid Amazon's option PSU. Use a phone 5V USB charger or your PC/Laptop to charge. A USB cable is included.

The Fire family are not true Kindles or eReaders/ eInk, but subsidised LCD Tablets. A Kindle Reading App isn't a Kindle either. Just a way to to consume Amazon eBooks on Tablet, phone or Laptop. They are MUCH more tiring to read for most people.

Leave 3G and WiFi off except when you need it. It more than x4 power consumption. Really you are better using USB to transfer. Even content bought from Amazon, select "deliver to my computer" option. The 3G option is handy if you travel and run out of stuff to read. You can "white list" any email address and then someone can "email" a document to your Kindle by 3G. But this isn't free. 3G is only free for content bought direct from Amazon, browsing Amazon or Wikipedia. Some countries may have 60M byte general browsing a month free. But the browser is poor. My Browser is painfully slow, not sure if the Kindle or rubbish local 3G!

Use USB to transfer .azw, .mobi .prc or .pdf files. Unless a PDF is designed for 6" paper, you need the 9.7" DXG. There is a way (different for DXG and later models) to store images. But making them into a PDF or eBook works better. Mobicreator is best eBook creation tool and PDFcreator (which installs as a Printer) is best free PDF creation/resizing/re-margin tool.

Calibre (free) will convert ePub to Mobi/Kindle format. A Calibre plugin will remove DRM (illegal in USA, legal in many other Countries for personal use for books you purchased).

You can change font size on eBooks, but not sensibly on PDF (a PDF can be Zoomed, but navigation around the page is horrible. PDFs do not reflow text). Any inline image can be viewed actual size or fitting the screen, depending on image size.