First I want to say that I liked this thread, because in my very short time here yet, this is the first one I've seen in which people expressed their opinions in more black and white terms and less like a review. I don't know that if this is because it is always fashionable to bash the Tinseltown or simply again a 'what I like or don't like' issue, but the reason I am pointing this out, because this is related to the problem discussed in a micro level in my opinion.
Martin Scorsese is not just right, he is also being generous. It's not about enjoying these movies, loving American main stream comic culture, how popular it is, because providing reasons for why Marvel/DC blockbusters are so popular does not refute any of the points he raises, which he directly states anyway. Popularity doesn't point to 'good'. On the contrary, it usually points to 'bad'. This is not just about art.
He is merely saying there is no room for art, because there is no room for risk and by that he means there is no room for conflict in the content. Because there is no subtance. Without conflict, there is no art. That's why this genre has grown so fast and so big and they are all the same. So he is not talking about just taking a risk with making a big production.
It's the nature of the material. They jump to universes and worlds back and forth, forcing some epic scale, but the basic world of the stories is so small, it doesn't work. It can't work. There is no substance. And they are trying to use that nonsubstance from every possible angle which keeps falling short because there is no understanding left of 'good and evil' in this sense. So comes the stretching, embellishing in tons of grey...which is never enough. Finally we arrived to the celebration of the dark. Because these stories are sterilised. They are safe. They are traditional, conservative, politically correct respresentations of some bastardised notions -heroship, being saved, evil vs good, it is not people, but the evil...etc - pretending to create some 'conflicts' to the young generations who resemble each other far more than any previous generation existed in human history, despite of the culture or the country they were born and live in. The generations whose idea of 'conflict' in sense of development is creating-maintaining artificial identity wars online; the generations who are addicted to getting triggered by these fake conflicts to feel alive, feel like doing something; beat apathy and build a vision of life through those triggers by self-help.
What are the 'conflicts' these movies created? In a major sense, transforming villains into more relatable characters than superheroes who are by definition good guys. Which started with describing both types in more grey terms, trying to make them 'realistic', more substantial and far more complicated than they were intended to begin with, which is the point stretching has started. Looks fine, what's wrong with it, right?
When they started to play on races and genders, sexual orientations, I found it good, refreshing. Esp. living in the culture I live in, it was really good news. But then I hadn't realised the actual main reason this genre developed this way because this general development had already gone through the other main stream genres. And that this was one of the last standing forts to 'attack' to create sensational response to make money without actually making anything.
So what happened? The nature of the material, its natural fan base, the soical identity politics of the product have turned this genre into some kaiju that is feeding on the fake identity and gender wars, fake victimhoods, generated sensational fandom wars and that is what it runs on. Provoking fandomships about how the characters -which are created long time ago- have been portrayed. Which is the 'correct' or most loyal version? 'Why did they kill the strongest heterosexul white male? Why did they make this character black? Why did they make that one female, and the other one gay?' I don't have any problem with any of it. On the contrary, I am rooting for it; breaking any kind of norms. I am a Middle Eastern woman ffs.
But what's the real 'entertainment' provided by these movies? Action? Seeing comic book characters come to life? Or they just stopped being comic book movies some time ago and what they provide is a very expensive, high tech, 'family friendly' cinema version of the material found in youtube channels that plays with human condition -to the point of abuse- to trigger people to take 'sides' of some group or movement so they can create new fake problems and existences, conflicts and victimhoods and stretch this toxic material further and further to some set of political beliefs?
You will say, people do the same thing with every material available that's how people work. No. We have passed a certain tipping point. There is an obvious bait and click here. Herding. OK, I get it's a phase of the social media age. Of course this won't go on forever, but there is a need of balance and LOUD criticism, different products. Do you realise how ridiculous it is that a director like Scorsese gets backlash for criticising a genre out loud?
Yes, I have seen Joker on the big screen. Yes, it is very good. But why? Because it is the story of Joker the villain in the Batman story? No. Because we have a lot of Jokers that looks like cut out from paper compared to his amazing performance and an accumulation of movies that acts like a history to the character and the story. And it is the era of the villain. It's the 21st century, we agree with him, we are on board. 25 years ago, it wouldn't have meant anything. Is there anything original in it? No. Why is it so important? Because of the fanatic fandomship. What are they going to do with our Joker? We all went to see that.
Replace Joker with John Doe, remove the Batman connection, you would enjoy that movie the same if you enjoyed the story itself. And it would have meant something 20 years ago, 40 years ago, 60 years ago. Dig further back, we would find the story of the failed, sad loser clown in crisis in many different forms. It's a very old story. But the chances are high that today, you wouldn't see this movie on the big screen and most people wouldn't even hear about it, because it is not a comic movie blockbuster.
So Scoreses is right, but it is not just Hollywood which is dependent on very specific kind of blockbusters. It's the main stream culture, politics, social issues. It's not some part of the pop culture anymore. It's become the basic mythology. People often don't like to acknowledge that 'culture' is not a positive term and a produced culture can create stupid or intelligent masses. What is going on with this particular one looks far from intelligent.