Jonathan Strange & Mr. Norrell - BBC TV series

[HareBrain]

I really hope we get more.

I hope so too. Has there been any mention of a second series? (Which I'm assuming would be written from scratch.)

In the meantime, if people want more more fantasy set in that kind of period, I can't do better than recommend Teresa Edgerton's Goblin Moon, which IMO has similar charms to Clarke's book. And it now only costs about a shilling!

https://www.sffchronicles.com/threads/560376/

 

[Droflet]

As Harebrain has previously pointed out, this show is a tad sluggish at times. Yet it still has enough going for it to interest even non fantasy reading heathen like me.

 

[Ursa major]

the leads Bertie Carvel and Eddie Marsan as the title characters

They were both excellent. I don't recall seeing Carvel at all before, and I've only seen Marsan briefly as, if I recall correctly, an escaped convict in an episode of a 1990s sitcom (although I know he's also been in lots of films since then).

One of the (completely unexpected) delights of the last episode was seeing Norrell suddenly becoming gloriously happy, the sun seeming to shine out of Marsan's face. Quite remarkable.

 

[clovis-man]

After watching the first episode, I decided to watch the remainder only after reading the book. My ordered copy being slow to arrive, I downloaded it on Kindle and have been absorbed in it. I think I'll like the BBC version more after I finish reading. Or at least, I'll be able to follow it better.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

I hope so too. Has there been any mention of a second series? (Which I'm assuming would be written from scratch.)

In the meantime, if people want more more fantasy set in that kind of period, I can't do better than recommend Teresa Edgerton's Goblin Moon, which IMO has similar charms to Clarke's book.

Thank you! There are moments when my mind plays tricks on me and I can see one of my characters walking along one of the streets or crossing one of the crowded rooms at a soiree.

One of the (completely unexpected) delights of the last episode was seeing Norrell suddenly becoming gloriously happy, the sun seeming to shine out of Marsan's face. Quite remarkable.

I have a few episodes to go before that one will be available, but in the meantime I think Marsan does an excellent job of portraying Norrell's insecurities so that even when his actions are self-serving (and sometimes a little cruel) it's hard to dislike him.

But I still don't like what they have done to the Gentleman with the Thistledown Hair. I don't like the way he looks and I don't like the way he's being portrayed, although I am sure that is as the director chose it to be, not any lack of skill on the part of the actor.

I think I'll like the BBC version more after I finish reading.

It will be interesting to find out if you do. You'll understand more and be able to fill in some of the gaps, of course, but fresh from reading the book you'll probably see a lot of places where the series is different from the book that the rest of us are missing. Maybe you'll feel the changes are justified, maybe they will annoy you, things in the script that those of us in a happy state of ignorance due to bad memory aren't bothered by at all.

 

[clovis-man]

...fresh from reading the book you'll probably see a lot of places where the series is different from the book that the rest of us are missing. Maybe you'll feel the changes are justified, maybe they will annoy you, things in the script that those of us in a happy state of ignorance due to bad memory aren't bothered by at all.

Hard to imagine a dramatization of a book of this length to not be curtailed or edited down in some respect or another. I won't mind (I hope). Just want to get the complete picture.

I'm reminded of the classic film noir classic The Big Sleep (1946) with Bogart and Bacall. The tenor of the times required the details of the original Chandler novel to be messed with big time. But still a great film. The Robert Mitchum remake of 1978 was much more faithful to the book, but utterly failed to capture its essence. After all, film-making is an art.

So I'll keep an open mind.

 

[clovis-man]

Finished the book a few days ago and am now working my way through the mini-series. First, I have to say that the book was one of the best reads for me over the past decade or so. So I might be expected to nit pick over the dramatization. Not so far. I am thinking that the characters as portrayed on film are pretty much on point. Especially Mr. Norrell. He evinces the anal retentive little twit to a fare-thee-well. Childermass has just the right mix of sullen skepticism and hidden knowledge. The man with the thistledown hair is perhaps a little too one-dimensional. More menacing and intimidating as opposed to the neurotic paranoid in the book. But I have more episodes to watch. Great fun so far, even if some sequences of the book get a little jumbled at times.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

The other day I caught up with all the episodes I had missed and have only the last episode left to watch (that will be broadcast tonight, and I'll probably view it tomorrow morning). Watching three in a row definitely enhanced the experience more than watching them one at a time as I did with the first three. It improved the pace and actually increased suspense (even though, having read the book I did know how it would all come out) by allowing anticipation to build, rather than giving it time to wear off a bit during the days between episodes. I think that maybe if they had broadcast it in fewer and longer episodes it might not have lost so many viewers as the series progressed.

 

[Droflet]

Saw the final episode last night. For those of you who haven't read the book it's bloody good.

 

[clovis-man]

Late getting this note in, but FWIW: After watching the entire series, I find that the imagery is pretty good, the characters nicely drawn and the storyline not too fractured. In other words, I found it entertaining. However, the book was a minor masterpiece. I would compare the two in this way: If I had not read the novel and the mini-series was my first and only exposure to it, I would not be persuaded to read the book.

 

[Andersson]

I started reading the book several years ago but never got very far because I found the style to be too dry. However, since the story and setting seems like something that would interest me I decided to give the TV show a chance and I’m glad I did since I very much enjoyed it. Still, the ending did leave me a bit unsatisfied and so I’m wondering if someone who read the book could fill me in, if indeed it was more detailed in the book?

SPOILERS BELOW

Basically it’s the whole thing with the Raven King and the prophecy that’s bothering me. There was one scene near the end when Childemass (?) and Vinculus are riding towards Norrell’s house and sees the black cyclone thingy (the fairy king’s spell) disappearing back into the sky. Childemass says that they are too late (to rescue Strange and Norrell) and Vinculus responds with something along the lines of “Don’t you see, they were the spell”. I take this to mean that all of the events of the story (magic coming back) where part of a great spell/scheme by the Raven King. But what was the purpose of this spell?

My theory is that the Raven King closed the king’s way (access to the fairy lands) because he had somehow made an enemy of the Fairy King (or he simply realized that the Fairy King was becoming too dangerous and uncontrollable). Denied access to the fairy lands the Raven King was deprived of a lot of his power so he had to come up with some way to get rid of the Fairy King so that he could once more open the way to fairy (and thus restore his full power). To this end he orchestrated the series of events in the story in order to kill/replace the Fairy King. Strange and Norrell (and everyone else) were only pawns and in the end they were sacrificed by the Raven King once they had fulfilled their function. The only reason either of them could do any magic was that the Raven King had given them some of his magic to allow them to play their parts (this would explain why there were no other magicians and why Strange was able to learn it so quickly).

This interpretation would give us a rather bleak story of a conflict between two power hungry and ruthless individuals (the Raven King and the Fairy King) that cause a lot of pain, suffering and death among a number of mostly good hearted people (Strange, Norrell, Arabella, Lady Pole and her husband, Stephen and so on). The ending isn’t particularly uplifting either. Yes, the Fairy King gets his well-deserved punishment but that only means that the Raven King is now free to return to his full power and presumably attempt to seize control over England, causing a civil war between the north and the south.

I could be way off on this since, like I said, I’ve only seen the TV series. Is the character and motives of the Raven King made any clearer in the books?

 

[Idoru]

I have read the book but such a long time ago that I can't actually remember how it ended! My interpretation of the TV show, though, was that Norrell and Strange were themselves the Raven King's spell. They only existed in order to bring him back. However, this didn't work because they realised what was going on and they sacrificed themselves to save England. So the Fairy King got his punishment and the Raven King is still powerless. But Norrell and Strange are gone. Although not dead, so there could be a second series should the BBC want one.

 

[clovis-man]

I could be way off on this since, like I said, I’ve only seen the TV series. Is the character and motives of the Raven King made any clearer in the books?

Long question. Even longer book. I won't go into detail, but I found the ending of the TV series to be something of a jumble. The book allows the conclusion to unfold in unhurried and satisfying fashion. And some of the specifics are quite different as well. But to get the full benefit, you'd have to wade through 900 plus pages of a novel with a style you profess not to like. Something of a dilemma. I found the narrative to be enjoyable and highly literate. But then I also grew to love Patrick O'Brien's style in the Aubrey/Maturin series of naval adventures. I think you have a decision to make. Good luck.

 

[Andersson]

Long question. Even longer book. I won't go into detail, but I found the ending of the TV series to be something of a jumble. The book allows the conclusion to unfold in unhurried and satisfying fashion. And some of the specifics are quite different as well. But to get the full benefit, you'd have to wade through 900 plus pages of a novel with a style you profess not to like. Something of a dilemma. I found the narrative to be enjoyable and highly literate. But then I also grew to love Patrick O'Brien's style in the Aubrey/Maturin series of naval adventures. I think you have a decision to make. Good luck.

I found some more information regarding the history of the Raven King (edit: forum won't let me post a link) and it seems that maybe he wasn't quite as evil as he looked in the show (apparently he was considered a good, though strange, ruler). I don't think I'll be reading the book any time soon, I'm currently busy with the complete works of H.P. Lovecraft, and I have probably spent enough time wondering about the ending so I'll leave it at that.

I will say that thinking about and analyzing a story after it has ended is usually a very good thing. For comparison, I recently watched the latest Avengers movie and while it was pretty entertaining at the time I can barely remember what the story was.

 

[Siberian]

Two more episodes to go. I like what I've seen so far. I read the book about 7 years ago so don't remember much. I noticed Strange is introduced much earlier than in the book (a good thing, too) and Mr Black's love interest is missing. It's a pity because so far it seems all he does is being someone's servant/slave.