Avoiding Cliche

[Brian Rogers]

Not sure if this post belongs in the Cliche topic but on this thread we started getting into the feasibility of aliens within books, then within our reality as well. Thought this would be interesting!

Just read an interesting theory as to why we have not discovered life elsewhere in the Galaxy even though the number of stars that have an Earth-like planet within a habitable zone is HUGE.

There are explosions called Gamma Ray Bursts which can occur when two neutron stars collide or when other certain combinations star-collisions occur. These blasts can last for 1-2 seconds or up to a minute and a short burst can produce the equivalent energy our sun produces in its entire 10 Billion year life! The blasts are the brightest events in the universe we know of and the explosions can be lethal to planets with atmospheres that could develop life through the massive gamma radiation and cosmic rays, etc.

In the core of our Galaxy there approx. 25% of all the stars. We are out on the outer edges with much less density of stars around our Local Bubble. It is predicted that within the last billion years there was something like a 90% chance Earth has been struck by a GRB but because they would occur much closer to the core of the Milky Way, almost 50,000 light years away, the damage is minimal, perhaps a small extinction event that we can recover from. BUT for those planets which could have contained life near the burst in the core the likelihood they have been struck in just the last 500 million years is 98% - and they are close enough to be wiped out by such an explosion.

There are other factors to this theory as well, but it would explain the "big silence" when we look toward the center of the galaxy and see many potential planets that could conceivably contain life, but in the end show no signs of it.

 

[Wanderlog]

Spectrography would aim to discover oxygen - ie a continuous chemical imbalance in atmospheric gases which couldn't exist by geological means - in a distant planet's atmosphere.

Ah! Here comes another cliché.

Oxygen atmosphere was NOT created by plants as many people believe. This is a statement that wasn't ever proved. Moreover, nowadays plants don't support the balance of oxygen and CO2 in the atmosphere as it commonly stated. Saying so it extremely profitable to many interested parties in the modern world, so it's repeated thousandfold in mass-media, and few people ever doubt this statement.

Meanwhile, if we look closely at the physiology of plants, we would see that they consume CO2 and produce oxygen only in the daylight. In the night darkness they consume oxygen and produce CO2 in the same manner as animals do. Almost all oxygen they produce during the day is consumed back during the night. This process is slightly biased as part of consumed oxygen and carbon is transformed into cellulose forming the plant, but every plant, even huge millennium-old trees, eventually die and release accumulated chemical elements back into the common cycle of matter.

The origin of Earth's oxygen atmosphere is unknown to the modern science. There are different theories starting with disintegration of water in upper layers of the atmosphere under influence of cosmic rays and ending with disintegration chemical compounds in volcanic lava under influence of high temperature.

So oxygen found in atmospheres of other planets doesn't mean anything at all.

BUT for those planets which could have contained life near the burst in the core the likelihood they have been struck in just the last 500 million years is 98% - and they are close enough to be wiped out by such an explosion.

Before we can make such statements, we have do define what life is. If we're talking about biological life similar to Earth's, it might be true. However, we can't assert that all life in the Universe must be similar to us and be based on the same principles. Other varieties of life (especially mineral-based ones) might survive the increased level of space rays.

In addition, developed sentient races can easily detect that such an event is coming and build shelters.

 

[KyleAW]

Cliche are sometimes unavoidable, but often there is a better way.

What I could never stand is people that declare their fury at them every five minutes throughout a film/book. Yes, we get that you are a very clever person that has a higher standard of enjoyment; you are also a pain to spend time with.

Saw someone mention 'face contorted with rage', I'm going to have to rewrite a line of mine, forgot how 'cliche' that is!

 

[Stephen Palmer]

Er… regardless of where the oxygen came from, my point was that James Lovelock pointed out that a permanent chemical disequilibrium must be supported by something.

 

[hardsciencefanagain]

Are all of you forgetting that our own planet might have been inhabitable,a whileD)back?
Might I also point out aberrant metabolism rampant in the the Archaea?

 

[Stephen Palmer]

Not sure what you mean here ^^ can you explain more?

 

[hardsciencefanagain]

Habitability is a question of time, sometimes.Our Earth might have had a pretty alien atmosphere in the Hadean.

 

[KyleAW]

True, there is a matter of time and perspective to consider even with our good ol' Earth!

 

[Wanderlog]

my point was that James Lovelock pointed out that a permanent chemical disequilibrium must be supported by something.

By volcanic activity, for example?

Our Earth might have had a pretty alien atmosphere in the Hadean.

Of course. As it was said earlier, we have pretty slim chances to find an alien civilization being on the (approximately) same stage of development.

 

[KyleAW]

we have pretty slim chances to find an alien civilization being on the (approximately) same stage of development

There is quite a good chance that it exists however! Space is a rather large place

 

[Wanderlog]

There is quite a good chance that it exists however! Space is a rather large place

No doubt. However, for us, "doesn't exist" and "we can't discover and contact it" are equivalent.

 

[KyleAW]

Meh details, details. We can conceptualize teleportation and magic can't we? (Though rather on topic, use of these to find places far, far away is rather cliche...)

Also I see you are listed as 'an alien from a distant planet', it seems I have made contact ^_^

 

[Stephen Palmer]

Habitability is a question of time, sometimes.Our Earth might have had a pretty alien atmosphere in the Hadean.

It did, but the organisms alive at the time absolutely loved it.

Add - maybe late Hadean. But you get my drift!

 

[Stephen Palmer]

By volcanic activity, for example?

What gases would these volcanoes expel?

 

[Brian Rogers]

Wanderlog I'll give you your first statement. Life not-as-we-know-it may still exist even after a GRB event, however the "life" I was referencing was the type which possibly could interact with us should we find signs of it. There are always exceptions to a rule, I just thought this GRB theory was actually quite intriguing as it would then constrain life-as-we-know-it to be formed in similar low star density areas of galaxies, giving us more parameters to bound our searches. The more parameters the more likely we are to find something in humanity's existence. Because

As it was said earlier, we have pretty slim chances to find an alien civilization being on the (approximately) same stage of development.

Your second point however,

In addition, developed sentient races can easily detect that such an event is coming and build shelters.

I find to be difficult to believe. Sentient races at our level of development have no protection against such an event. The time we see the GRB occur in the sky is when the radiation also hits the planet. The biggest issue is that GRBs are so powerful, one occurring a few thousand light years from a planet is still deadly to life on that planet. A race of beings would need to be FAR more advanced than us to "predict" all the potential star collisions and assuming they could do this, they would then need to determine if their planet could sustain carbon based life (if their ecosystem is indeed affected the way ours would be) after an event or if they need to move their entire race to a periphery system far enough away from the star collisions the way Earth is set up.

Unfortunately I think this GRB theory does explain why high density areas within the galaxy are indeed "lifeless" for all intents and purposes. But on a happier note if we could verify this by looking at radiation on planets of 30-50,000 light years away (which we can't yet I don't believe) then we would better know where to look that wouldn't be so affected by these events!

 

[Wanderlog]

We can conceptualize teleportation and magic can't we?

Yes we can. But it won't be SF, you know. If we write SF-like fantasy (similar to Simak's books), it can be a valid approach.

Also I see you are listed as 'an alien from a distant planet', it seems I have made contact ^_^

Oh. I didn't think about it.

What gases would these volcanoes expel?

Any gases I believe. Why not? In the end, we don't invoke any processes that are completely unnatural. Essentially, most industrial processes boil down to melting, burning and mixing minerals. That's what exactly happens when a volcano erupts.

however the "life" I was referencing was the type which possibly could interact with us should we find signs of it.

But why can't we recognize a non-biological life? Yes, I can figure out a couple of good reasons (my current WiP describes an electromagnetic-based life form, and no one can understand if it's sentient). However, in general, we can usually discern at least traces of rational activity at close distance. It puts chaos in order and decreases entropy, which is highly unusual for dead matter.

Sentient races at our level of development have no protection against such an event.

Our level of development is extremely low. Our civilization is pretty young, you know, and our species appeared not so long ago on the galactic scale. In a hundred year we'll have the ability to protect ourselves against such a blast. If a carbon-based species has two or three million years to evolve from, let's say, small cave animals (caves provide a natural shelter from space radiation) into a well-developed civilization, it can survive even a major blast. And if the species lives on a planet with high content of heavy metals, it can be even more immune to external radiation.

I think this GRB theory does explain why high density areas within the galaxy are indeed "lifeless" for all intents and purposes.

Maybe so. But we can't say it for sure while we don't know what exact varieties of life may exist in the Universe.

 

[Stephen Palmer]

Any gases I believe. Why not? In the end, we don't invoke any processes that are completely unnatural. Essentially, most industrial processes boil down to melting, burning and mixing minerals. That's what exactly happens when a volcano erupts.

So, to continue the point about atmospheric gases in permanent disequilibrium (Lovelock), your volcanic gases include oxygen and methane?

 

[Zebra Wizard]

Simply put

The general populace misunderstand what cliche actually is these days.

They label anything that is normal/average/believable as cliche.

people are just quick to throw the word cliche around, which pretty much means using a recurring/regularly used trope.

 

[KyleAW]

Pretty much Zebra, one man's cliche is another man's story.

 

[Mirannan]

Wanderlog I'll give you your first statement. Life not-as-we-know-it may still exist even after a GRB event, however the "life" I was referencing was the type which possibly could interact with us should we find signs of it. There are always exceptions to a rule, I just thought this GRB theory was actually quite intriguing as it would then constrain life-as-we-know-it to be formed in similar low star density areas of galaxies, giving us more parameters to bound our searches. The more parameters the more likely we are to find something in humanity's existence. Because


Your second point however,


I find to be difficult to believe. Sentient races at our level of development have no protection against such an event. The time we see the GRB occur in the sky is when the radiation also hits the planet. The biggest issue is that GRBs are so powerful, one occurring a few thousand light years from a planet is still deadly to life on that planet. A race of beings would need to be FAR more advanced than us to "predict" all the potential star collisions and assuming they could do this, they would then need to determine if their planet could sustain carbon based life (if their ecosystem is indeed affected the way ours would be) after an event or if they need to move their entire race to a periphery system far enough away from the star collisions the way Earth is set up.

Unfortunately I think this GRB theory does explain why high density areas within the galaxy are indeed "lifeless" for all intents and purposes. But on a happier note if we could verify this by looking at radiation on planets of 30-50,000 light years away (which we can't yet I don't believe) then we would better know where to look that wouldn't be so affected by these events!

Indeed. A GRB is one of those events of which it can be said that the only real defence is not being there when it happens.

This is relevant, because GRBs are directional. A GRB would likely blanket the entire solar system, but any future colony on (say) a planet of Alpha Centauri would be safe.