Magnificent Century (Muhteşem Yüzyıl)

[Anushka Mokosh]

That's exactly it. In fact, much of what we just said is exactly what my wife and I were discussing straight after.

I think it's a testament to the series that it can do such a great job with the characters - overall, at least. The trouble with the Isabella plot - IMO - is that it turned characters that we had previously sympathised with, into ones we did not - not least Suleyman himself.

Yes, it is why I disliked Isabella in part aside from her just irritating me. She wasn't bad per se, but she got there at the expense of other characters and I didn't get why people were singing her praises.

 

[Anushka Mokosh]

Another thing that is very note-worthy about the show, at the very least in the beginning, are the battle scenes. Like it this episode. At the 3:05 mark. They are very nicely shot without necessarily a cast of 1000 to make it very eye-catching and yet in a way, doesn't shy from dark aspect of it with just enough blood to bring it across that people are dying and not make it overly gore-y. I really like the employed style of filming.

 

[Brian G Turner]

I presume there was simply no budget for the battle scenes, so they opted for a style of presentation I'd expect to see on stage in a theatre - such as in a Shakespeare. But I agree - because of that, they're really effective, and think they translate well to the screen.

Also! Just watched 39 - and, OMG, they still know how to do cliffhangers! A triple one this time - Nigar standing on the balcony, Hatice found the letter in the violin case, and Hurrem just refused to see Suleyman. And that was all after the massive confrontation between Hurrem and Valide with all sorts of repuercussions (Heart! Notebook! Daye!). Which - for anyone reading who has never seen the series, it'll all sound a bit trite. But they are continuing escalations in plot lines that have been developing since the opening.

It's very clever how they play their audience. I was cheering when Hatice found that note. It's time for Pasha to be called to account.

 

[Anushka Mokosh]

I've been slowly re-watching the show. New job on a 8 to 4 basis has been kind of a time hogger especially with classes in the mix, but I finally reached the episode 25.

Spoiler: Spoilers for EP. 24 & 25

The scenes with Leo's death are so heartbreaking. I don't think I ever forgave Ibrahim-pasha for how he handled that situation. It was so cruel it was bone-chilling especially since Hurrem was pregnant with Bayazid at the time. Forcing Hurrem to choose between herself and her unborn child on one site and Leo on the other side was so heartbreakingly cruel. I felt so bad for Hurrem in that scene and even more so for Leo. In a way, Leo choose to die, but Ibrahim giving the choice to Hurrem practically destroyed her.

Another thing I hated in that episode was how Victoria said that Matrakçı Nasuh was the one carrying the letters just to hurt Ibrahim without taking into account that it meant Matrakçı might also lose his life. I didn't really hate it as part of the plot, but I hated Victoria for doing it because Matrakçı Nasuh was one of my favourite characters and he was blameless in the entire situation. Ibrahim being so violent against him was also something that I hated from Ibrahim. He kept attacking Matrakçı for being so blinded by love for a woman yet he was equally blinded by Hattice and could have lost his life had Suleiman not been merciful as he was. Forcing Matrakçı to kill her was another cruel thing he had done.

These two events where he made two people kill were what cemented my dislike of Ibrahim. While with Hurrem, I could understand it even if Leo was blameless since he hates Hurrem, Matrakçı was his friend. Such cruelty towards a friend seemed rather unwarranted since Matrakçı was effectively blameless in the entire situation.

 

[Brian G Turner]

Re: Season 1 finale:

Spoiler

It was intense, wasn't it?

I thought it was superb the way that Ibrahim was revealed to be such an incredible villain, after he'd been made to be such a sympathetic character via his love for with Hatice. The transition was, frankly, masterful.

And, indeed, his dealing with Matrakci just showed how aggressive and malicious he could be.

 

[Anushka Mokosh]

Re: Season 1 finale:

Spoiler

It was intense, wasn't it?

I thought it was superb the way that Ibrahim was revealed to be such an incredible villain, after he'd been made to be such a sympathetic character via his love for with Hatice. The transition was, frankly, masterful.

And, indeed, his dealing with Matrakci just showed how aggressive and malicious he could be.

Spoiler

Yes, I really love how intense the episodes sometimes are.

I like how the show keeps playing with us in regards who the villains are and how I feel sympathy for some characters only to have them trample all over Hurrem, most of the time entirely without a real reason, and then my sympathy just deflates as they show that they aren't very nice people.

I completely agree. I also hated how he seemed to replace Matrakci with Bali-bey as a friend. It made his friend seem to disposable.

 

[Anushka Mokosh]

Spoiler: Episode 31

I hated Hatice in this episode. Her treatment of Hurrem was so despicable. I understand that Hurrem had inadvertently caused her distress with words about an affair between Isabella and Ibrahim, but Hurrem was simply mistaken. She did have an interest in taking down Ibrahim, but she actually thought that Ibrahim was having an affair. Hatice knows that Suleiman isn't having an affair with Isabella yet she intentionally makes Hurrem think so just to hurt her.

I also really hated that Suleiman kissed Isabella at the end, but we already discussed that earlier in the thread.

 

[Anushka Mokosh]

Spoiler: Episode 43

The look on Valide's face when Suleiman announced his marriage to Hurrem was priceless. She looked like she's about to have a stroke. And when she aksed him if he wanted to kill her and then so perfectly passed out was just perfect, I just couldn't stop myself from giggling slightly. It was so theatrical. XD

Hurrem cancelling Ibrahim's assassination for Hatice's sake was really touching especially in light of Hatice's earlier behaviour when she had Hurrem at her mercy.

The trap Valide sets for Hurrem is just so nerve-wrecking even though I already know how it ends.

 

[Anushka Mokosh]

Spoiler: Episode 44

The scene between Hatice and Hurem was heartbreaking.

I am constantly annoyed by Nigar's feelings for Ibrahim because he always abused her. I never saw one good thing in his treatment of her to justify such martyrdom-love from her.

Bali-bey and Aybige were hilarious. His face when he realizes which is the real one is hilarious. Aybige is such a tomboy and I loved how she had hit the nail on the head with why Mahidevran hates Hurrem. After the slight against Hurrem by Valide and hers gang, Aybige was the nice and polite one. I did not like Mahidevran lying about Hurrem being such a treacherous person since the one more likely to betray her allies is Mahidevran. TBH, I don't even think Hurrem betrayed anyone since her first betrayal of Maria/Gulnihal. Hurrem even sometimes pulls her punches just to avoid hurting some people like how she retracted her order to kill Ibrahim in order to spare Hatice. Valide made a huge mistake when she refused Hurrem's hand. She should have expected it would reach Suleiman sooner or later and he already sees her as someone dead-set against Hurrem for no actual reason.

It was nice hearing singing to Nigar since I could really enjoy the song as translation wasn't necessary, but I really didn't like that sham of a wedding and the way it played out. Nasuh had not deserved that. I felt so sorry for him. I also felt sorry for Hatice. Despite certain dislikes I have about her as a character in regards to her actions against Hurrem, it was really sad seeing her all alone while Ibrahim went to have alone-time with his new mistress, Nigar.

 

[Brian G Turner]

Spoiler

I found the conflict between Hurrem and Hatice a bit forced - after all, Hurrem saved her baby.

Hurrem's attempt to have Ibrahim also felt somewhat rushed - it seemed to come from nowhere, and disappear just as quickly.

However, the confrontations with Valide and Hurrem were long in coming, and brillient to watch - absolutely made up for Isabella.

 

[Anushka Mokosh]

Spoiler

I found the conflict between Hurrem and Hatice a bit forced - after all, Hurrem saved her baby.

Hurrem's attempt to have Ibrahim also felt somewhat rushed - it seemed to come from nowhere, and disappear just as quickly.

However, the confrontations with Valide and Hurrem were long in coming, and brillient to watch - absolutely made up for Isabella.

Spoiler

I think they meant to justify it as Hatice seeing Hurrem as just a slave girl of Suleiman and all that about duty to their family shebang, but it really reflects so poorly on Hatice when she treats Hurrem like that despite Hurrem saving her.

Well, she relented from assassination for Hatice's sake. Hurrem in a way still yearns to be accepted by the dynasty because she admires them and envies them a lot. She sees Ibrahim as a rival and as a threat to her children because he so obviously favours Mustafa and his involvement tends to always be in Mahidevran's favour.

Definitely. Hurrem vs Valide is one of the best conflicts in the show especially because their interests are so aligned in everything but the way harem should function in regards to Hurrem herself. One can argue that Valide created Hurrem as her biggest adversary because Hurrem's actions are rooted in large part in wanting to be accepted and respected in harem. Valide was always pushing her down, favouring Mahidevran, always treating Hurrem as less. Hatice followed her mother's lead. Arguably, Hurrem getting her freedom and getting married to Suleiman were all a consequence of Valide excluding Hurrem from everything, tearing her down, provoking her by saying she's "just another slave girl", saying that just because she had Suleiman's children she's no better than any other slave girl, allowing blatant disrespect of Hurrem in the harem (despite Hurrem being a legitimate sultana and introduced into inner harem circle by Suleiman himself by giving Hurrem sable fur early on), and making her feel like she was being humiliated by the family. Not to mention the preferential treatment of Mahidevran by comparison despite Mahidevran's behaviour at many events being worse than Hurrem's and yet Valide demanded respect for Mahidevran. This preferential treatment really made Hurrem feel like she had to fight for herself (since Mahidevran had such a preferential treatment despite being as much of a slave girl as Hurrem and simply elevated by birthing a son which is something Hurrem did too and yet Hurrem got no benefits for it) thus shaping her as a person.

 

[Anushka Mokosh]

Spoiler: Up to episode 50

I was such a shipper on board for Aybige and Bali-bey. The attempts of Valide and Mahidevran to pair her with Mustafa devastated my poor shipper heart. It also pisses me off since they have so little regard towards harem rules now despite being such sticklers to rules when it comes to Hurrem. Just a bit earlier, Mahidevran had reminded Nora/Efsun about the harem rules prohibiting Mustafa from marrying before he goes to sanjak, but now, they don't seen to be very worried about respecting those rules. Mahidevran's attempts to force a change upon the tomboyish and self-reliant Aybige really pissed me off too. They are so obsessed with changing anyone who doesn't suit their fancy.

In other news, the continued warring between Valide and Hurrem seems to be very self-destructive on Valide's side. She keeps making decisions that make her seem petty and cruel, especially as she brought back Fatma and Fidan after they mutilated Hurrem's face in the rebellion with Valide herself orchestrated. Even though it was confirmed to Suleiman that Valide was behind it due to Daye's signature, this only incriminates Valide further and makes her seem cruel, petty, and unwilling to put it behind them.

I keep hating Ibrahim's behaviour towards Nashu. It seems like such unfair behaviour towards a supposed friend. During the entire affair, I felt so sorry for Nasuh. Both Nigar and Ibrahim treated him so abhorrently. Daye finding out will complicate things now for certain. Hurrem had also certain now that something is going on. There is no way she'll let it slide.

Ibrahim's hubris and hunger for power are his fatal flaws and it is showing more and more. His relationship with Nigar, the sculptures he keeps in the garden, the sculpture of himself he had made, etc. all steam from those flaws in his character. All the little traps Hurrem sets him up to don't do him half the harm he does to himself. She just has to make sure Suleiman finds out what Ibrahim does.

 

[The Judge]

I watched the first episode last night, and though it was interesting in some respects (my knowledge of the Ottoman empire is limited to Venetian intrigues, the gates of Vienna, and the Battle of Lepanto) for me it was the type of costume drama where they've spent all the money on the costumes, and the script got what was left in petty cash.

I appreciate my judgement could simply arise from culture clash though, since for me the longueurs, continual thousand-yard stares and go-nowhere internal monologues were as wearisome as what I imagine were meant to be the comedic scenes with the cook and the eunuchs (which to my mind just showed humour really doesn't travel). Worst of all for me was the depiction of the slave and harem women, and the characterisation of Alexandra herself who leapt from near-suicidal desperation into gagging-for-it whoredom via stupid acts of screaming pettiness which didn't deserve the name of rebellion. I know she had the dream, but I still found the transformation wholly unconvincing, and if she is meant to be an intelligent woman, gawd help us.

Having said that, it was effortless viewing, and though the CGI was amateurish that's never a deal-breaker for me; the settings were beautiful, the costumes suitably gorgeous, and the glimpses of Ottoman rule interesting (eg the literally kissing of the hem of his garments, the violent manhandling and subjugation of the Venetian ambassador). And Ibrahim was sexy as hell... So I may well watch another episode or two.

 

[Anushka Mokosh]

I watched the first episode last night, and though it was interesting in some respects (my knowledge of the Ottoman empire is limited to Venetian intrigues, the gates of Vienna, and the Battle of Lepanto) for me it was the type of costume drama where they've spent all the money on the costumes, and the script got what was left in petty cash.

I appreciate my judgement could simply arise from culture clash though, since for me the longueurs, continual thousand-yard stares and go-nowhere internal monologues were as wearisome as what I imagine were meant to be the comedic scenes with the cook and the eunuchs (which to my mind just showed humour really doesn't travel). Worst of all for me was the depiction of the slave and harem women, and the characterisation of Alexandra herself who leapt from near-suicidal desperation into gagging-for-it whoredom via stupid acts of screaming pettiness which didn't deserve the name of rebellion. I know she had the dream, but I still found the transformation wholly unconvincing, and if she is meant to be an intelligent woman, gawd help us.

Having said that, it was effortless viewing, and though the CGI was amateurish that's never a deal-breaker for me; the settings were beautiful, the costumes suitably gorgeous, and the glimpses of Ottoman rule interesting (eg the literally kissing of the hem of his garments, the violent manhandling and subjugation of the Venetian ambassador). And Ibrahim was sexy as hell... So I may well watch another episode or two.

The reason harem and Alexandra in the early episodes seem so hard to believe is because it wasn't really so. Girls brought to the harem were generally much much younger and were raised and educated there for the most part. They were indoctrinated to behave that way and some of them were actually sent there by their families in order to secure them a better living. But before they'd be bough to sultan, they would have to excel in many areas of what was considered education for harem girls and girls were carefully selected before they could as much as cross sultan's path. Many of the girls brought would just become servant girls, apprentices to their medics, or kalfae. Even if some were brought at a latter age, it would probably take quite a while before they met sultan if they ever did. In large part, they changed that depiction of harem in order to be able to introduce immediate threats to Hurrem's position via new women in harem Suleiman could get interested in and indoctrination would be quite hard to sell. And then, they had to make that come to terms with Hurrem's quick rise to power and prominence in the harem. It is really the reason why early Hurrem is unbearable to watch at times. They wanted to make her personal story more tragic, but they had to hurry the transition part because watching Hurrem do mundane harem things as she deals with her personal tragedy wouldn't interest their target audience. I just tend to ignore the early angsty Hurrem.

As for her intelligence, she'll remain petty and pointless for a while. She gets better later on for reasonably decent justifications where she gains mentor-ship, goes through some hardships, and learns to navigate the court. Even early on, there is still some spark of intelligence to her actions and quick uptake, but she's impulsive, petty, and reckless making it all seem like a low form of cunningness.

 

[The Judge]

I guessed that liberties had been taken with the reality of harem life in order to get her before the sultan asap, but that didn't worry me, as I can understand the need to get on with the drama. But the depiction of a society of youngish women as largely a bunch of giggling simpletons annoyed me no end, and it would have been so easy to have made her transition more realistic, even if, as you say, she remained petty and impulsive thereafter. Certainly to my mind her characterisation was the weakest part of the whole drama.

 

[Brian G Turner]

So I may well watch another episode or two.

There are times when Magnificent Century demands patience - there is pointless repetition, and some scenes drag on more than necessary. By Western TV standards, it could really benefit from a good editor.

However, IMO the patient viewer is richly rewarded.

I agree, episode 1 came across as simply "potentially interesting" to me when I first watched it. But my kids wanted to see what happened with Hurrem vs the harem. The character and plot and development became gripping for us. And some of those cliffhangers later on were astonishing...

The story arcs sometimes flirt with cliche and sometimes drag - other times they are driven, relentless, and intense. Overall, IMO there is some of the best characterisations on TV. If you make it to the end of Season 1 you'll see what I mean (especially regarding Ibrahim).

Whatever you decide though, I'm sincerely glad you at least tried it.

 

[Anushka Mokosh]

I guessed that liberties had been taken with the reality of harem life in order to get her before the sultan asap, but that didn't worry me, as I can understand the need to get on with the drama. But the depiction of a society of youngish women as largely a bunch of giggling simpletons annoyed me no end, and it would have been so easy to have made her transition more realistic, even if, as you say, she remained petty and impulsive thereafter. Certainly to my mind her characterisation was the weakest part of the whole drama.

Well, sadly, considering they would get there very young and would be rather indoctrinated with their education and contact with outer world being rather limited, it wouldn't be very far off from how their behaviour might have been. But later on, you'll be shown many of them as smarter than that and in a wide array of roles. Pay a lot of attention to how Valide Sultan and Daye-hatun instruct them to be, especially when they point out Hurrem's flaws, and you realize that most of them has to act that way to avoid their ire.

They could have, but I think that in large part they feared the backlash. IIRC, they had a lot of backlash in Turkey for misrepresentation of some historical figures (a lot of backlash was about Suleiman), timeline, and relationships to the point where show was almost cancelled despite the huge popularity. Historically, Hurrem attracted Suleiman with her cheerful disposition. I think backlash would have been even worse if they changed that.

The problem with Hurrem transitioning was that they had roughly two ways to do it. Have her transition before she met Suleiman and have her transition with Suleiman's help. The former wasn't really an option because the entire premise was heavily advertised as this huge love story and initial push was largely due to popularity of actor playing Suleiman, rooted greatly in another romantic show. It would be too much of a gamble for them. The latter would be impossible with regards to the portrayal of Suleiman. I think that it would have been best had they avoided the early Hurrem angst altogether by having it be more in the past for Hurrem, but I think they wanted to use it for parallels with Ibrahim later on.

As I say, her characterization gets better and more consistent latter on as she starts progressing. I think that what they were going for was "tortured young woman who had a bit of luck and had let it get to her head" as a way to show the side of Hurrem many Turkish historians depicted and the tortured part is there for people to feel sympathy. In historical records, Hurrem was portrayed rather negatively very often. You'll still see that Hurrem return from time to time and come to surface, but even Hurrem herself admits to occasionally being petty or as she calls it, childish.

 

[Anushka Mokosh]

There are times when Magnificent Century demands patience - there is pointless repetition, and some scenes drag on more than necessary. By Western TV standards, it could really benefit from a good editor.

I think that this is a Turkish cinematography thing. I didn't follow many other Turkish shows, but they put them on TV here a lot and my mother was a huge fan of some of them so I saw parts of them whenever I went home (Karagül [Black Rose] - which was insanely popular here to the point where everyone and their grandmother watched it, Adını Feriha Koydum [Girl Named Feriha] - one actress from there will make a début in Magnificent Century eventually as a very important character, 1001 gece (1001 Night) - the show I mentioned in previous post as the one where actor playing Suleiman starred, Sıla [Sila - it's a name] - main actress from there will also début in Magnificent Century, Ezel [Ezel - it's a name], etc. Those are all I remember). These happened in all of them.

 

[Anushka Mokosh]

Spoiler: Episode 59

This episode could comfortably be titled "Ibrahim's hubris and Mahidevran's malfeasance" as their fatal flaws are just shining through in this episode. Ibrahim is overreaching despite the warning bells going off in his own head and Mahidevran is going rampant as soon as she gained just a bit of power without understanding that it is temporary at best. It is amusing to see Hatice take Hurrem's side because she simply has to. I'm just waiting for the situation with Nigar to blow up.

 

[Anushka Mokosh]

Spoiler: Episode 61

Hurrem's speech to Valide just perfectly concludes their joint history. It was a very emotional scene on Valide's end. She can't speak. She can't do anything. And she was already in turmoil regarding the reveal of Ibrahim's affair with Nigar and now the decision is out of her hands. It being concluded with Valide's death makes the entire situation more devastating.