Is Varys actually a eunuch?

[SandorRules]

I was preparing a topic for the podcast I do with my brother (Drunk on Ice & Fire), about Varys' agenda in Winds of Winter.

I thought about it and the theory that resulted is below.

We all know that Varys pretends to be a defender of the Realm, but there are several reasons to suggest this may not be so.

Firstly, he tells Kevan he wants the realm to remain “warring and divided” and secondly he continues to support mad king Aerys even after Raegar’s death, neither of which appear to the benefit of the realm.

As we also know that he and Illyrio have raised a boy they claim is Raegar’s son Aegon, I was thinking it is possible that the whole reason Varys was supporting Aerys (when there seemed otherwise to be no reason) was because Aegon is in fact Varys’ son.

This being the case, Varys has only pretended to be a eunuch this whole time, and it fits nicely with Aegon being both the mummers dragon and the false dragon from the prophecies.

Equally, Illyrio claims he is doing all this for a debt to a friend, and the only friend we really know of his is Varys.

Additionally, the recent statement from GRRM that he has written a big twist for a veteran character that has been ruined in the TV series also fits with this, as they showed both Roz touching his “gash” and the man in a box who cut his junk off.

What do people think? No doubt there are many things I have not considered and would like to take these back to the podcast for next episode.

 

[Judderman]

So you think he put the man in a box as part of an elaborate ruse so no one would think he has a child? It's out there. It could be some kind of pride in such a "disguise" but it seems rather pointless..
Illyrio could be raising the boy for Varys but Varys's reasoning can still be that he thinks the Targs are the best leaders for Westeros.

Also the article I read, which I think is the same one from April, didn't say the twist was of a character that had been ruined in the TV series, just that the TV series had gone past the point where this twist he thought of could happen.

 

[Ursa major]

as they showed both Roz touching his “gash” and the man in a box who cut his junk off

Bear in mind that the TV series is not canon, so cannot really be used to prove anything one way or another (except in the TV series itself).

We've had this discussion about Varys' er... credentials before (possibly as part of one of the crackpot theory threads).

 

[ArstenWhitebeard]

there certainly have been many theories about Varys* and I think the one thing most of us can agree on is that he is not what he seems. (though I am sure there will be people argue that he is exactly what he seems. That's people for you)

*Vary is a Faceless Man, Varys is the High Sparrow, Varys isn't a Eunuch, Varys is a Targ, Varys is working with littlefinger. To name a few

 

[SandorRules]

Haha, actually I thought the man in the box (which isn't in the books) was good evidence that in the TV show Varys was a eunuch, which suggested that if that was a twist in the books the TV show couldn't do it. Though I accept that it might not be any particular event Judderman, that's true.

Think that is pretty much the nail on the head though. If it isn't this twist it will be something else. Varys is plotting something and it isn't what he says. Though why he saved Gendry is still soemthing that perplexes me.

 

[Anushka Mokosh]

Additionally, the recent statement from GRRM that he has written a big twist for a veteran character that has been ruined in the TV series also fits with this, as they showed both Roz touching his “gash” and the man in a box who cut his junk off.

Too many possibly candidates to be able to apply this with any degree of certainty. There are far too many that fit the bill as something TV Show would no longer be able to pull off including Jaime, Bronn, Shireen, Manderly, Jojen, Green, Pyp, Sarelle, Ellaria, Quentyn, Arienne, Sansa, etc.

 

[ArstenWhitebeard]

Think that is pretty much the nail on the head though. If it isn't this twist it will be something else. Varys is plotting something and it isn't what he says. Though why he saved Gendry is still soemthing that perplexes me.

I just had an idea, it might be possible that Varys saved Gendry for the sole purpose of annoying and distracting Cersei and Joffrey. The men sent out to find Gendry added to the destruction and mayhem in the countryside, and helped to turn yet more people against the Lannisters. it would have been just a small push to make Cersei's power just a little bit less stable.

Or else, Varys is acting like littlefinger, making moves that seem to make no sense, or even act against him. If your enemy doesn't know what you want, he won't know what you are going to do next.

 

[Anushka Mokosh]

I just had an idea, it might be possible that Varys saved Gendry for the sole purpose of annoying and distracting Cersei and Joffrey. The men sent out to find Gendry added to the destruction and mayhem in the countryside, and helped to turn yet more people against the Lannisters. it would have been just a small push to make Cersei's power just a little bit less stable.

Or else, Varys is acting like littlefinger, making moves that seem to make no sense, or even act against him. If your enemy doesn't know what you want, he won't know what you are going to do next.

Gendry is proof. His mother is a golden haired prostitute. So far, he is the strongest proof to indicate that Joff and his siblings are product of a twincest. Varys keeping him somewhere remotely safe while accessible is a given. Varys doesn't want Stannis to get to Gendry since that gives Stannis too much advantage. He doesn't want Cersei and Joff to get him because that means giving them one of cards he has.

 

[ArstenWhitebeard]

But if Varys is working for the return of the targs, then it won't matter if Cersei's children are legitimate or not. they always say that Robert became king because he had the best claim, his grandmother being a Targ. But Robert became king through blood and battle, nothing else. when the targs come back, Robert's children and cersei's children can either step aside, or be killed, legitimate or not.

 

[Anushka Mokosh]

But if Varys is working for the return of the targs, then it won't matter if Cersei's children are legitimate or not. they always say that Robert became king because he had the best claim, his grandmother being a Targ. But Robert became king through blood and battle, nothing else. when the targs come back, Robert's children and cersei's children can either step aside, or be killed, legitimate or not.

It would matter in case things went in favour of Lannisters. Remember that Varys needs a fractioned kingdom to capitalize on. In case things went too well for Lannisters, enter Gendry to fan the proverbial dying flames.

 

[Koopa]

Ned wasn't interested in kingship, Jon Arryn too old and noriously childless... yeah Robert was king by default.

 

[Anushka Mokosh]

Ned wasn't interested in kingship, Jon Arryn too old and noriously childless... yeah Robert was king by default.

Robert also had the best claim of all the Rebellion leaders. Baratheons were Targaryen bastards to begin with and his grandmother was a Targaryen IIRC.

 

[ArstenWhitebeard]

It would matter in case things went in favour of Lannisters. Remember that Varys needs a fractioned kingdom to capitalize on. In case things went too well for Lannisters, enter Gendry to fan the proverbial dying flames.

But Varys didn't keep a very close eye on Gendry after telling him to flee. I don't think even Varys could say with any certainty that Gendry is still alive let alone where he is.

Unless it was just a matter of Varys' plan failing. Varys sent Gendry to join Yoren to go to the wall. If he had made it, Varys would know exactly where Gendry was, but there would be the matter of Gendry being under oath to the night's Watch.

 

[Anushka Mokosh]

But Varys didn't keep a very close eye on Gendry after telling him to flee. I don't think even Varys could say with any certainty that Gendry is still alive let alone where he is.

Unless it was just a matter of Varys' plan failing. Varys sent Gendry to join Yoren to go to the wall. If he had made it, Varys would know exactly where Gendry was, but there would be the matter of Gendry being under oath to the night's Watch.

I think it just happened to fail. Varys isn't infallible. Actually, Gendry being under Night's Watch would be ideal. He has no personal stake in the game and is thus more believable. Kinda like why Littlefinger is so dangerous to Lannisters. People might not believe Stannis who has a stake in the game, but Littlefinger has none on the surface making his word weightier.

 

[ArstenWhitebeard]

So Gendry ends up on the wall and Cersei and Joffrey eventually hear about it and they send someone to kill him? but is it daggers in the dark or do the nights watch find out it was them sending men to kill one of their sworn brothers? Cersei may have been careful enough that nobody would know it was her, but Joff probably wouldn't and he is the King. So now everyone knows that the Lannisters/Baratheons have openly assaulted the Night's Watch, who are sworn to protect the realm. How many enemies does Joffrey make by killing one man of the Nights Watch?

Maybe that was Varys' plan after all.

 

[Anushka Mokosh]

Might have been. To me, it just makes sense of trying to make as many contingencies as possible no matter how weak they might be.

 

[ArstenWhitebeard]

I just don't see Varys falling back on Gendry if Dany and Aegon fall through. Gendry wouldn't be able to get near enough support from the other houses.

 

[Anushka Mokosh]

I just don't see Varys falling back on Gendry if Dany and Aegon fall through. Gendry wouldn't be able to get near enough support from the other houses.

I'm not saying he would. I'm just saying that if at any point too many people would join Lannisters and there wasn't enough opposition left, Varys could use Gendry to incite new conflict in order to leave the country unstable for Dany and Aegon.

 

[Boaz]

Just a thought on the actual topic... Is Varys a eunuch? I don't know, but don't automatically believe it.

We understand Westeros through the thoughts and interpretations of only twenty-one or twenty-two characters. Their various understandings of truth sometimes are conflicting. If we'd never gotten Tyrion's POV, we'd believe Eddard's and Catelyn's views that Tyrion is evil. All we know of Varys is hearsay, innuendo, or filtered through someone's POV. No one has actually seen him naked. All we have is his word... and we know he is a spy master.

On the other hand, if any of the four Kings, the Queen Regent, or one of the (at least) eight Hands had demanded to see... they could have. It'd be very risky to claim something that could so easily be disproven.

I think we can assume he is a eunuch, but we really don't know.

More importantly... we need to know what Varys' agenda is. Is it stability as he told Eddard? Or is it the restoration of the Targs as most of us suspect?

 

[Koopa]

It's not the Targs he serves, but the Blackfyres. Aegon is a Blackfyre. It is known!