Use of polari - good or annoying?

[EPT Henry]

Hi all,

I am currently planning a second novel and I want to introduce a character into the story who speaks polari. They are going to be an underground londoner and I thought it could be an interesting angle on a character. The plan is for their motives to be fairly opaque and I thought maybe using a language that can be quite hard to interpret might add to this uncertainty.

Good idea or rubbish?

 

[Phyrebrat]

It's a good enough idea but you'll need to be fluent in it yourself to make it convincing. I think you'll have to be prepared for readers making the assumption the character is homosexual. I think there is a documentary or drama where there's a lot of polari called 'The Language of Cranes'

Best of luck

pH

 

[Vertigo]

Depends what audience your book is targeted at I suppose. I wouldn't understand it and would probably end up throwing the book away in disgust. However there are plenty of successful novels that have done similar. For example Trainspotting is largely written in Glasgow slang and if you're not familiar with it you won't stand a chance, but it was still a successful book. You would probably need to provide a glossary for the Polari words you use.

 

[KyleAW]

Hate to be a layman but what's polari?

 

[EPT Henry]

Thanks all.

In reverse order - Kyle. It is a slang dialect used by people as a secret language. Circus performers, criminals and homosexuals (when it was illegal) used it. It has a lot of alternative meanings in it so if you don't understand it you could get lost quite easily.

Vertigo - interesting point. I was thinking of using a hybrid ie so it is understandable but noticeably different. I would want the reader to think they know what the character means rather than being certain if that makes sense?

Phryebrat - I had thought about the sexuality issue, given the history of polari, but I am coming at it more from the criminal side. Having said that the characters sexuality won't be a key part of the story so the assumption wouldn't hurt or hinder.

At this stage it is just an idea I'm toying with. Interesting to see positives and negatives.

 

[Phyrebrat]

I don't see a problem as long as you employ int mindfully; look how successful Burgess' A Clockwork Orange is.

Personally I'd say go for it.

pH

 

[Nick B]

Hate to be negative, but I just wouldn't read it. No point reading a book half in a language I don't understand.

To add though, if it was just one, not major, character, I could live with that.

 

[EPT Henry]

Quellist - what if it was a relatively minor character? They will be important to the plot but the story is split into 4 intertwined parts and this character would only exist in one of those.

So in terms of actual amount of words dedicated it shouldn't be too hefty.

Ps negative is just as well received as positive feedback.

 

[Nick B]

Haha, just edited my post, as i then wondered if it was a minor character, which would be ok for me.

 

[alchemist]

I'd never heard of it until now, so I'm actually intrigued. If you can somehow wangle in that this is a real dialect with a real history, I think it would be a bonus.

 

[Ray McCarthy]

It depends when and where the story is set (it started as Thieves Cant and the use by Homosexual men was the last shift of use before it died out, so you need to pick the right kind of Characters, in 1920s or 1930s it's not going to be criminals). There was a program mentioning it on BBC R4 in the last week but I changed channel. Only for a minor character / subplot I think.

It's maybe the sort of thing you could adapt for thieves or merchants or dodgy "enterainers" in a Fantasy novel rather than inventing something from scratch, but only as minor backdrop or the book becomes as inaccessible as Chaucer to most people. Even real Shakespeare isn't that accessible.

 

[Vertigo]

According to Wiki it is apparently currently seeing a bit of a revival.

 

[Ray McCarthy]

Why one wonders. The reasons in the past sort of made sense.

 

[Vertigo]

I know very little about it other than what I've read in Wiki:

Since the mid-1990s, with the redistribution of cassettes and CDs of Round The Horne, and with increasing academic interest, Polari has undergone something of a revival. New words are being invented and updated to refer to more recent cultural concepts.

 

[EPT Henry]

It depends when and where the story is set (it started as Thieves Cant and the use by Homosexual men was the last shift of use before it died out, so you need to pick the right kind of Characters, in 1920s or 1930s it's not going to be criminals). There was a program mentioning it on BBC R4 in the last week but I changed channel. Only for a minor character / subplot I think.

Hi ray, that's what I had in mind. I'm pictured an unhinged crime boss. Not a major character but an interesting one. Running an underground hideout.

 

[Ray McCarthy]

I'm pictured an unhinged crime boss.

That would be long ago, not contemporary, unless it's a fantasy world or alternate reality.

Probably the origin of Polari, but changed hugely. Though more likely the similar Parlyaree
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thieves'_cant

See also (From Thieves' Cant)

• A New Dictionary of the Terms Ancient and Modern of the Canting Crew
• Argot
• Bargoens
• Cockney rhyming slang
• Fenya
• Germanía
• Grypsera
• Lunfardo
• Polari
• Rotwelsch
• Šatrovački
• Tsotsitaal

Also see also Gypsy or Romani

 

[EPT Henry]

That would be long ago, not contemporary, unless it's a fantasy world or alternate reality.

It's alternate reality. Sort of. Book is all about hidden world's so it's a pocket of old London. Will have a look at those other types though - thanks for the link - there might be something more suitable. I'm picturing kind of 19th century so maybe that isn't the right time scale?

 

[Phyrebrat]

Essentially it's your story. If you want it, use it, and don't be discouraged by naysayers who tell you to use blue paint instead of red when you're painting

There's no logic needed but your own characters'. The history of it and its application IRL is irrelevant unless you're writing historical fiction.

It seems to me like you want to include it and so I think you should. After all if it doesn't work you can change it to plain English when you start draft 2 or edit.

pH

 

[Ray McCarthy]

alternate reality ... about hidden world's so it's a pocket of old London. ... I'm picturing kind of 19th century

I see no difficulty then, as long as the main text is in regular English.
Read some of Georgette Hayer's Regency setting Romance, maybe "Bath Tangle" to see how well Cant can work in a novel without being explained. She had nearly 1000 books and bought even a letter of Duke of Wellington to research her Regency setting. She'd didn't make up "Regency Cant" as far as I can tell (That's end of 18th and Early 19th period, somewhat more than the actual Regency, which I think ended in 1835 or 1837, whatever date Queen Victoria came to throne).


See
http://www.georgette-heyer.com/slang.html
(I'm sure I've spotted some she uses not in that list, @Teresa Edgerton is more expert on Georgette Heyer)
This seems more complete (but some words listed are not Cant at all!)
http://www.regencyassemblypress.com/Regency_Lexicon.html
Some are wonderful
Banbury
Darken One's Daylights--To give a black eye.
Vowels - owing money, i.e. IOU
Also
http://www.pascalbonenfant.com/18c/cant/

Edit
A choice selection
http://www.susannedietze.com/regency-cant.html

Edit:
Strictly "The Regency" was 1811 to 1820, but novels can be set probably 1790s to 1840s, Wikipedia says:

The term Regency (or Regency era) sometimes refers to a longer period than the decade of the formal Regency. The period 1795 to 1837

 

[EPT Henry]

Thanks for the comments and help everyone. Really appreciate it.