Dilemma about book length

[pambaddeley]

I'm currently well into a final round of editing on a long fantasy novel, which has been rewritten a lot of times over more years than I care to remember, with the intention of self publishing. Trouble is, the latest edit has resulted in adding scenes where the odd plot hole was discovered, or expanding scenes to show where before it was a bit too 'telling' in places. So it is coming out around 169K. There is a natural place where it could be split into two books, just under halfway through, but I can't see where it could be divided into three. I'm concerned that a POD version will be enormous and too pricey. But I'm struggling to identify other books where there are just two volumes, rather than a trilogy. Any thoughts please? I already removed a whole subplot some time ago, and everything remaining is very interwoven and connected.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

In my experience, you'll sell very few POD, so I wouldn't make that your deciding factor. I think, also, getting betas who know your genre and asking what, if anything, is superfluous would be good, if you haven't already.

On a personal level, I wouldn't release anything - trad or sp, and I'm both - without an editorial review by a professional, recommended genre editor (and, I know the cost, the cost, but it might not be as horrendous as you think - I certainly didn't pay anything near the wince-worthy amounts I've heard elsewhere). And I'd be handing the problem to them - please either advise on tightening or where this could be cut into two books.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

Oh, in terms of trilogies versus duology, I don't think that should be a problem. Sp has no traditional model - do what you want. I certainly plan a sequel to Inish Carraig if it continues its current trajectory, but no more than that,

 

[pambaddeley]

OK Jo. I'm planning to get quotes for copy editing when this round of edits is done though the figures I've seen indicated would perhaps exceed £1K which I can't stretch to. I know exactly where it could be split because the story has a smaller climax about 70K in, then builds to the main resolution.

Maybe foolishly, I've already got a commissioned cover which I'm very happy with, and would need to work out how to package two volumes, though the cost wasn't enormous and hopefully the designer could advise if an editor agreed I should go that route.

 

[Ray McCarthy]

So it is coming out around 169K.

That's fine if it's suitably gripping.
I'd only worry if more than 200K, as a reader. But even then an eBook wouldn't worry me.

 

[pambaddeley]

Thanks Ray, that's reassuring.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

OK Jo. I'm planning to get quotes for copy editing when this round of edits is done though the figures I've seen indicated would perhaps exceed £1K which I can't stretch to. I know exactly where it could be split because the story has a smaller climax about 70K in, then builds to the main resolution.

Maybe foolishly, I've already got a commissioned cover which I'm very happy with, and would need to work out how to package two volumes, though the cost wasn't enormous and hopefully the designer could advise if an editor agreed I should go that route.

I paid less than half that for a developmental edit and a copy edit. I'll pm you...

 

[HareBrain]

I agree there's no reason why a 169k ebook need put anyone off. And POD might still be doable -- have you worked out the costs? I have a similar-length WIP, and when I looked at POD I think it came to a cost of about £7 a copy for Createspace in 9"x6", but my memory might be faulty. Anyway, if you can sell at £10 and still make a profit, that would be OK, I'd have thought. As Jo said, ebook sales would be the main one.

I'd think hard before dividing it in two. 80k isn't a long book, and if it doesn't feel self-contained either, you might have a lot of disgruntled readers (or many that won't pick it up in the first place because they don't want to pay twice for what is effectively a single book). But if each half would genuinely feel like a "proper" book, it might be the way to go.

 

[pambaddeley]

OK thanks Harebrain. It always was meant to be one book so if the length is acceptable, that's great to hear.

 

[pambaddeley]

I paid less than half that for a developmental edit and a copy edit. I'll pm you...

Thanks for the PM Jo.

 

[Jackie Bee]

I paid less than half that for a developmental edit and a copy edit. I'll pm you...

Could you send me the details about your editor, too? Thanks!

 

[Brian G Turner]

Any thoughts please?

IMO it would be better to get some constructive but critical feedback first before you look to pay for editing services. Once you've reached 30 posts you'll be able to post your opening 1500 words to the Critiques section, where issues are likely to be raised for your attention.

Additionally, it would help to understand at least some of the basic technicalities of writing structure, to help you self-edit and also understand that feedback. We have a list of book recommendations to help with this here:
Good books on fiction writing?

Editing is something to do when you've done everything you think you can do yourself, and need further helps and direction. You also need to take care that there are different types of editing, and a copy edit will be pointless if you have major structural issues - but a structural edit will be of limited value unless you understand something of the technicalities actually being referred to in that.

2c.

 

[pambaddeley]

OK thanks Brian. The book was read a few years ago by a pro author who gave me feedback on structure among other things, and I did apply most of her comments, bringing material much further forward in the book and writing a number of new scenes. So hopefully, the structure side is OK. Earlier drafts of the book were workshopped in various writers' groups including face-to-face and postal, so I have had quite a lot of critical feedback (not all of it constructive!).

I am still working hard on what I can do myself to get the book as good as possible before getting any quotes from editors. And I'm always willing to learn, improve and receive feedback.

 

[Edward M. Grant]

One thing to remember about POD is that the price is usually based on the number of pages, not the size of the pages. I make mine at 5"x8" because that fits well on my bookshelf, but you can choose 6"x9" or maybe even larger if you want to keep the page count down. You can also reduce the font size, though I wouldn't recommend that as the book may become hard to read.

Also, POD is a trade paperback, not mass market, so cover prices are expected to be in the $15-20+ range. Retailers will often discount from there, anyway.

 

[pambaddeley]

OK thanks Edward. Will bear all that in mind. Having a long learning curve at the moment so I haven't got to book formatting etc though I am reading a lot around marketing/promotion and how to do or not do.

 

[james lanfear]

Speaking purely as a reader.. I LOVE long books! If it's a great story, what does it matter? Make it a great story & no one will care about the technicalities. Good luck with it.

 

[pambaddeley]

Thanks James!

 

[Tim Murray]

I'm currently well into a final round of editing on a long fantasy novel, which has been rewritten a lot of times over more years than I care to remember, with the intention of self publishing. Trouble is, the latest edit has resulted in adding scenes where the odd plot hole was discovered, or expanding scenes to show where before it was a bit too 'telling' in places. So it is coming out around 169K. There is a natural place where it could be split into two books, just under halfway through, but I can't see where it could be divided into three. I'm concerned that a POD version will be enormous and too pricey. But I'm struggling to identify other books where there are just two volumes, rather than a trilogy. Any thoughts please? I already removed a whole subplot some time ago, and everything remaining is very interwoven and connected.

My second in first draft form is 500 pages, and the third in progress is 200 more than that, and not finished yet. I am going through the same dilemma on the third. My thoughts on the subject is to have the entire tome edited at once, and then work with the editor on a natural split point. Otherwise, I have read many books that long and have had no problems. As long as the story arc and characters are engaging, there should be no worries.

 

[zmunkz]

I don't think 169K is anything to worry about. I wanted to share a link, but I don't have enough posts, so I'll just copy and summarize... these all have the same or more words and did just fine:

Lord of the Rings - J. R. R. Tolkien
The Fellowship of the Ring: 187k
The Two Towers: 155k

Wheel of Time - Robert Jordan
The Eye of the World: 305k
The Great Hunt: 267k
The Dragon Reborn: 251k
The Shadow Rising: 393k
The Fires of Heaven: 354k
Lord of Chaos: 389k
A Crown of Swords: 295k
The Path of Daggers: 226k
Winter's Heart: 238k
Crossroads of Twilight: 271k
Knife of Dreams: 315k

Stormlight Archives - Brandon Sanderson
The Way of Kings: 387k

A Song of Ice And Fire - George R. R. Martin
A Game of Thrones: 284k
A Clash of kings: 326k
A Storm of Swords: 404k
A Feast for Crows: 300k

Malazan Book of the Fallen - Steven Erikson
Gardens of the Moon: 209k
Deadhouse Gates: 272k
Memories of Ice: 358k
House of Chains: 306k
Midnight Tides: 270k
The Bonehunters: 365k
Reaper's Gale: 386k
Toll the Hounds: 392k
Dust of Dreams: 382k
The Crippled God: 385k

The Dark Tower - Stephen King
The Waste Lands: 178k
Wizard and Glass: 264k
Wolves of the Calla: 251k
The Dark Tower: 288k

King Killer Chronicles - Patrick Rothfuss
Name of the Wind: 259k
Wise Man's Fear: 399k

Harry Potter - JK Rowling
Goblet of Fire: 191k
Order of the Phoenix: 257k
Half Blood Prince: 169k
Deathly Hallows: 198k

 

[Jo Zebedee]

Yes, but very few of those are debuts. (Rothfuss excluded.) Martin was already a respected sf author when he started GOT, Rowling's first books were much shorter.

But, actually, I think it's only a concern if subbing to agents - and even they're not totally rigid in their demands that what they rep must fit the market. (I'm blogging about that later.)